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Scaling from 1 player to 2 players, please fix.


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Me and my friend want to do MM survival, but we cannot last past wave 23 duo, but my friend (with worse walls) alone, can last past this.

The scaling from 1 player to 2 players is messed.
In nightmare, 95% of the kills you get will be from towers, but increasing the number of players does not increase the number of towers.
Despite this, health and amount of mobs DOES increase, almost double really.

While there should be scaling, it is WAY too much right now, to the point where soloing is significantly easier than duoing, unless you have a guardian.

Can this be changed?

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I play mainly solo with some duo as well. IMO on most maps the advantages of duo far outweigh the added difficulty. You can stack guardians, you can cover twice the area and repair twice as fast, you can keep your builder on, or log a dps, you can get more built before wave 1, etc. So many more options with duo.
The downside isn't the added difficulty, it's the sharing :p

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I think this game is more fun when we are rewarded to play with more players, experimenting on the new maps together in public games and then getting good enough to play to the last wave. With nightmare, the pattern is try your builds solo, play duo sometimes if you find good teammate is online (slightly easier, less loot, but it's boring playing solo all the time), and then when you have mastered the map, then you might open a public game for 3+. It's no wonder there are so few NM games on the newer maps despite high demand (just open a game and see). I'd like the ultimate challenge to be solo, like it was for insane.

Finally, the most important thing - the waves should not take 2x as long w/ 4 people. More action-packed, sure, but please keep the length the same.

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you crazy reflectice amagawd:0

ofcourse the waves need to be longer with 4 people that means more loot at wave 28.
aka more chance of good loot to drop aswell. and a lenght of 2,800 enemies is not much to begin with

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The thing is, builds using buff beams gain little to no advantage using a guardian. Sure you can pull off another ~30k dps, but bringing a dps pet can get almost three times that on any character, exponentially more on a squire/countess with rage/cta. The scaling definitely needs reworking, maybe add a stat buff to towers with every added person. 1 person -> 2 people is OK progression, not good by any stretch of the imagination but OK, however 2->3 almost doubles mob count, damage, and hp, not to mention 3->4+.

And on the longer waves = more loot point, more people doesn't increase the amount of loot left on the ground, meaning you share the same loot unless you either spam loot during the wave, requiring a nearly-empty item box, or you try to find the good loot that drops, requiring you to hover your mouse over it in a safe spot, while ogres aren't dying in order for the tooltip to show its stats. Then you have to rush out and put your life (and potentially the wave in NMHC) in danger in order to grab it.

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The scaling from 1->2->3->4 are all terrible. Adding 1 person does not add 100% bonus to the defenses on the map, so why would it double the mob count and increase the hps/dmg? All it does is basically add a repair bot to another lane. Especially since guardians for the most part are obsolete. Sure you can get like a 25% boost to damage by using a guardian on top of a boost beam, but that is terrible. Using a dps pet on the other hand will help you survive the extra 200 spiders dropping because you entered your friend's game.

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The thing is, builds using buff beams gain little to no advantage using a guardian.


Guardians definitely still help, especially if you have a good one. My 98 boost Huntress guardian significantly boosts the towers over what a buff beam alone can do. Keep in mind, that huntress buffed tower is doing double damage and has significant boost to range as well from the BB, it's just shooting even faster.

I like using DPS pets sometimes too, but guardians are still very nice. They're just not the only legitimate choice anymore.

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Imo the scaling from 1 to 2 players is just right. Maps like Mysti or Moraggo are easier with 2 good players then solo. If I play Mysti solo I will probably fail on ~ wave 25, but with a friend I get to 30.

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Imo the scaling from 1 to 2 players is just right. Maps like Mysti or Moraggo are easier with 2 good players then solo. If I play Mysti solo I will probably fail on ~ wave 25, but with a friend I get to 30.


really? i do misty to wave 30 just fine solo (go go spam repair and hide from DEWS) were as for moraggo duo will get me to 20 ish

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More players makes it harder MOST of the time, I either solo or duo just because 3 or more people make sooooo many enemies

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Some challenges are not doable with more players, especially Warping Core pack. With more then 2 players, the game starts to spam ogres at nearly all gates. You dont have enought DU to defend all Gates, so its just unplayable. More players should increase DU, so that is playable, but if a player joins the game and the game starts to spam Monsters at all place, then its not funny anymore.

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if more players meant more DU people would abuse the playerlimit to get more towers and then kick everyone to get less monsters...

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i think it would be better to increase the effectiveness of the towers based on how much players there are
if a second player adds more enemies, why not also buff towers a little?

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if more players meant more DU people would abuse the playerlimit to get more towers and then kick everyone to get less monsters...


Or ya know.. They could just give each extra player their own DU that only they can spend and make their towers dissappear if they leave the game. Sort of the way I can't believe it doesn't already work. The whole 'one builder' mentality for this game sort of ruins a big part of the idea of partying for me. I'd rather just solo if other players can't contribute anything but a tiny amount of DPS.

Nor do I want to join other players games if I can't build.

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