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Something wrong after the patch....


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So can someone remind me why they are still giving Trendy money when they pull stunts like this every single patch?


So they will fix them instead of giving up on the game.

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Hope they fix this soon, mix mod is unplayable right now... can't kill genis on w13 on a campaign map, 2k tower dmg beam-boosted....

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Its a bug.


Short and concise, I like that

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nukes have some serious mojo right now. Had to make build adjustments..... Its not out of control though, you can counter it.

I do hope to see the changes fully reverted.

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This isn't a bug it was a buff to dark elf mages as stated in the patch notes.

There seems to be someone at Trendy that gets a considerable amount of joy from doing this about once every other patch. Someone had to change the variable somewhere for this to take effect, variables do not just change on their own. I can not think of anything else in the game that would have the dark elf mage healing amount sharing a variable with it.

Unlike the guy before I have programmed for a quite a long time. He was correct, this shouldn't have changed. It was a ninja buff, someone at Trendy threw darts at a board and picked a random thing to make harder.

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What I want to know is, was there an actual buff to DEM fireball range and/or damage? And if so, will it too be reversed?

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WOW was just as bad at including all their changes in patch notes. Extremely frustrating as a user. It's not that difficult to document the changes you're making to code when you're using a versioning system, and I assume Trendy is using one.

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What I want to know is, was there an actual buff to DEM fireball range and/or damage?

Yes. DEMs are very annoying now. They just destroy my walls, because towers can't hit them (not in their vision) and i can't do it manually - golden dem kills my monk (162k hp, 90/70/70/70) in two shots.

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This isn't a bug it was a buff to dark elf mages as stated in the patch notes.

There seems to be someone at Trendy that gets a considerable amount of joy from doing this about once every other patch. Someone had to change the variable somewhere for this to take effect, variables do not just change on their own. I can not think of anything else in the game that would have the dark elf mage healing amount sharing a variable with it.

Unlike the guy before I have programmed for a quite a long time. He was correct, this shouldn't have changed. It was a ninja buff, someone at Trendy threw darts at a board and picked a random thing to make harder.


Taken from the Patch Notes as of 17/04/11 22:09 GMT

[QUOTE]
7.29
* Fixed City In the Cliffs mob group-stuck area
* Fixed City In the Cliffs floating Mana Tokens
* Tavern Pause menu now shows up to 16 Player entries
* Male Bounty Hunter and Female Amazonian each have their own unique character portraits
* City in the Cliffs now gives 25% more build time, each chest has 30% more Mana, and there are 25% less Wyverns in the Campaign/Survival mission
* Changed Harpoon Tower to aim at center-of-target, rather than with an aim-offset, resolving harpoon missing case
* Fixed issues of incorrect Buff Beam Defense-boosting count, and that Buff Beam couldn't be placed under middle section of walls
* Overhaul to Tavern Shop item generation, now can and will have highest-end items, but at a greater sale price for those items
* Mission Setup UI now remembers your Survival/PureStrat/MixMode settings when you return from a mission
* Toggling between Windowed and Fullscreen modes (Alt-Enter) no longer loses your previous fullscreen resolution
* Fixed GameSpy matchmaking search capabilities to be consistent with Steamworks' search

* Minimum Level Requirement on Hosted Games is automatically set based on Host's level (to allow low-level players to see more low-level games in their searches). Can be reset manually, and doesn't affect AFK Shops. Uses the following level brackets:

Minimum Host Level | Auto Level Requirement
0 | 0
14 | 7
25 | 14
35 | 22
45 | 33
60 | 42
70 | 60
78 | 74

* 25% Bounty Hunter HP boost and 25% less Movement Speed [community-polled]

* Optimized portal rendering so that off-screen portals don't consume FPS, can reduce low framerate associated with other players using the portal gun

* Updated DDDK to 7.29
[/QUOTE]

I'm sorry I seem to have missed the part in this patch where it's stated that Mages will receive unreal buffs to further troll the player base.

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Hmm i thought it was this patch submitted to valve now.

* Eliminated Dark Elf Mage Healing Buff
* Enemy Targeting Offset now scales with enemy size, i.e. making Harpoons able to hit mini-Wyverns
* Harpoons never damaging targets bug solved -- was due to low FPS on server with out-of-view Harpoon Turret, would cause Harpoon to aim too slowly and always miss on Server, even though it would appear to hit on Client. Now, Harpoon turn speed is not affected by out-of-view/low server FPS.

If so no more op dem.

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Taken from the Patch Notes as of 17/04/11 22:09 GMT

I'm sorry I seem to have missed the part in this patch where it's stated that Mages will receive unreal buffs to further troll the player base.


EDIT: I may have misunderstood what you were saying. I see now earlier you said it wasn't a bug.

They're saying it was an intentional buff that wasn't listed in the 7.29 patch notes. This type of thing happens all the time in online games and non-games too.

They're just saying it doesn't look like an unintentional bug that slipped in, but an intentional buff that missed being listed in the patch notes. Big difference in my book.

It would have been difficult for it to be an unintended bug because they didn't tinker with anything that looks like it should be related to healing.

(Yes, I'm a programmer and know you can have weird unintended effects. Just saying it looks more likely than not, especially with 7.29b's wording using the word "buff" that it was a ninja buff not listed in the 7.29 notes.)

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EDIT: I may have misunderstood what you were saying. I see now earlier you said it wasn't a bug.

They're saying it was an intentional buff that wasn't listed in the 7.29 patch notes. This type of thing happens all the time in online games and non-games too.

They're just saying it doesn't look like an unintentional bug that slipped in, but an intentional buff that missed being listed in the patch notes. Big difference in my book.

It would have been difficult for it to be an unintended bug because they didn't tinker with anything that looks like it should be related to healing.

(Yes, I'm a programmer and know you can have weird unintended effects. Just saying it looks more likely than not, especially with 7.29b's wording using the word "buff" that it was a ninja buff not listed in the 7.29 notes.)


Agreed, thank you that was exactly what I was trying to say.

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EDIT: I may have misunderstood what you were saying. I see now earlier you said it wasn't a bug.

They're saying it was an intentional buff that wasn't listed in the 7.29 patch notes. This type of thing happens all the time in online games and non-games too.

They're just saying it doesn't look like an unintentional bug that slipped in, but an intentional buff that missed being listed in the patch notes. Big difference in my book.

It would have been difficult for it to be an unintended bug because they didn't tinker with anything that looks like it should be related to healing.

(Yes, I'm a programmer and know you can have weird unintended effects. Just saying it looks more likely than not, especially with 7.29b's wording using the word "buff" that it was a ninja buff not listed in the 7.29 notes.)


Devs test a lot of things before it goes into a live patch... its likely someone messed with the healing programming and forgot to reset it... its a typical TE bug you will see with just about every patch... that's beside the fact the game has the worst programming structure I have ever seen O__O

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Here's the deal: It could be a bug that it was included. I've seen this happen on many projects. Programmer A is working on a pile of tasks. Bug fixes, upcoming balance changes, etc. He has several different copies of the source code, often one per change using something like Git to keep things straight. When it's patch time, he merges several branches in. An extra branch accidentally goes in, and changes that weren't finished (in this case, probably the DE balance changes) go in when they weren't meant to.

So the bug probably isn't the changes, but that they went live before they were finished/tested. It's remarkably easy to accidentally include an extra change every now and then, when you're under time crunches.

Seriously, what's the idea behind the belief that they'd intentionally do stealth changes? All it could possibly do is change you guys complaining about it before the patch hits to after the patch hits. There's no realistic reason to try to hide it from you guys if it's a change like this that can't avoid being noticed. Human error is the far more likely conclusion.

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This isn't a bug it was a buff to dark elf mages as stated in the patch notes.

There seems to be someone at Trendy that gets a considerable amount of joy from doing this about once every other patch. Someone had to change the variable somewhere for this to take effect, variables do not just change on their own. I can not think of anything else in the game that would have the dark elf mage healing amount sharing a variable with it.

Unlike the guy before I have programmed for a quite a long time. He was correct, this shouldn't have changed. It was a ninja buff, someone at Trendy threw darts at a board and picked a random thing to make harder.


Just because it was a buff doesn't mean it wasn't a bug. Buff simply means they were made stronger. Not that they were made stronger intentionally. This is exactly what the beta team was talking about in their official post on here. People read these things and then take them in entirely the wrong ways and completely too seriously.

I've done a fair amount of programming myself. Accidents happen. Heh. Even with variables.

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Here's the deal: It could be a bug that it was included. I've seen this happen on many projects. Programmer A is working on a pile of tasks. Bug fixes, upcoming balance changes, etc. He has several different copies of the source code, often one per change using something like Git to keep things straight. When it's patch time, he merges several branches in. An extra branch accidentally goes in, and changes that weren't finished (in this case, probably the DE balance changes) go in when they weren't meant to.

So the bug probably isn't the changes, but that they went live before they were finished/tested. It's remarkably easy to accidentally include an extra change every now and then, when you're under time crunches.

Seriously, what's the idea behind the belief that they'd intentionally do stealth changes? All it could possibly do is change you guys complaining about it before the patch hits to after the patch hits. There's no realistic reason to try to hide it from you guys if it's a change like this that can't avoid being noticed. Human error is the far more likely conclusion.


I'm saying that I think it was an intentional change to the source code. It always could have been unintentional that the change made its way into the release, but that wouldn't classify as a bug in my book. A bug is something more along the lines of: what the heck, this program's malfunctioning, I didn't tell it to do that - always followed by later, oops, yes I did. I've never thought any game developer intentionally did a stealth change, I've just viewed it as programmer(s) not documenting changes they make. (And, sure, I'll be the first to admit, I've done that before.)

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Here's the deal: It could be a bug that it was included. I've seen this happen on many projects. Programmer A is working on a pile of tasks. Bug fixes, upcoming balance changes, etc. He has several different copies of the source code, often one per change using something like Git to keep things straight. When it's patch time, he merges several branches in. An extra branch accidentally goes in, and changes that weren't finished (in this case, probably the DE balance changes) go in when they weren't meant to.

So the bug probably isn't the changes, but that they went live before they were finished/tested. It's remarkably easy to accidentally include an extra change every now and then, when you're under time crunches.

Seriously, what's the idea behind the belief that they'd intentionally do stealth changes? All it could possibly do is change you guys complaining about it before the patch hits to after the patch hits. There's no realistic reason to try to hide it from you guys if it's a change like this that can't avoid being noticed. Human error is the far more likely conclusion.


Also... This.

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I'm saying that I think it was an intentional change to the source code. It always could have been unintentional that the change made its way into the release, but that wouldn't classify as a bug in my book. A bug is something more along the lines of: what the heck, this program's malfunctioning, I didn't tell it to do that - always followed by later, oops, yes I did. I've never thought any game developer intentionally did a stealth change, I've just viewed it as programmer(s) not documenting changes they make. (And, sure, I'll be the first to admit, I've done that before.)


Alright.. So a bug makes it into the game that reduces squire damage by 50% tomorrow.

It's not a nerf since it was a bug, right? Good luck convincing your playerbase of this.

Heh. Point made. The terms nerf and buff aren't specific to non-bugs.

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As a programmer, I classify a bug as "any time a program doesn't work as it's currently intended to work."

If the change was intentional, but not meant to go out yet, that's a bug because the program isn't meant to be that way yet.

My personal guess is that they are/were planning to retune DEs (and probably other mobs too) and have several branches of source code dedicated to rebalancing things. I'd honestly bet that there'd dozens of branches of balance changes that just get thrown away all the time. One of them probably accidentally got merged. Maybe it was due for a future patch after testing, maybe it was eventually destined to vanish forever.

So yeah, the changes were almost certainly intentional for a non-release branch to have. It's the kind of change that's very likely quite hard to be caused entirely by unrelated code being worked on. But just because the code from this functionality was almost certainly intentionally written doesn't mean it was ever meant to see the light of day.

I know when I work on things, I'll often write code for a variety of scenarios. "What if Dark Elves healed a percentage of HP rather than a flat amount?" "What if DEs healing scaled differently?" "What if DEs healed more, the more injured a mob was?" Etc. Then I'd create a way to simulate gameplay. Probably run an actual game with a pre-set build, no graphics, and vastly increased gameplay speed as a simulation. See how those changes worked out after the fact, then tweak some more. For all we know the tougher dark elves were intended as part of some new challenge, or some other scenario.

Just because they were written intentionally doesn't mean including it in the game wasn't a bug. :)

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Just because they were written intentionally doesn't mean including it in the game wasn't a bug. :)

No kiddin'. You wouldn't believe how many times I've made a change to test it out in my private build on a game and forgotten to revert it before it's released. **** happens.
Intentionally made? Yes.
Intentionally released? Nuuuuuu... Please give back that uberloot so it can be placed in the incinerator.. >.o

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I've seen changes go out accidentally in open source projects that have physically damaged hardware, or made it impossible to access a device, completely bricking hardware somewhat permanently (requiring specialized hardware to restore it).

It makes me pretty laid back about bugs like this where I know I can say "ah well, I'll give them a few days and it ought to get better" when my basis for comparison is "I could've just lost something that cost me $200 a few years back and has since developed a secondary market on eBay making it cost twice that."


But yeah, as someone mentioned, is this problem better with the latest patch? I read in another thread theyr'e still healing more than they used to, AND their fireball distance seems to be uncapped again, so it sounds like whatever code went in, someone's a little unclear on everything that got changed.

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So, besides the healing bug, what exactly did the Ninja patch on the DEMs do? I don't see anything on the notes and now they are suddenly ripping my walls to shreds.

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they are still pretty bad, Djinn on Survival always like to buff mages first and they just sit back and heal the mob thats getting gased and proxied the crap out of them, and mages will just fireball from way far away. They also like healing Djinn on survival so they just can desummon your towers <--- That one is not too bad but yeah their fireball range should definitely be limited as well as maybe their healing rate being slower.

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Fix your **** already Trendy. I love having my time wasted because on the last wave of OMF I can't deal enough damage to stuff over the course of five minutes with only 300ish mobs to go because of the retarded healing Necros are doing. How the hell isn't stuff like this caught by testers?

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