Jump to content

NEW enemy for part 3 of the eturnia cristal


Recommended Posts

Street Sharks

Of course, the main attraction at PAX was Shards Part 3. Not only did we have the new map and mission playable, but all of the other DLC goodies were in the PAX build, including the new enemy -- Sharkmen.

http://dungeondefenders.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/sharkman1.jpg

PAX attendees experienced first-hand the terror of these ruthless sea creatures. Just when you think you have the perfect setup, the Sharkmen charge the playing field (literally). Its up to your heroes might and magic to stop them from pushing aside your defenses and bolting straight to your crystals. Fend them off, and you may survive to see the new boss.

I think Im gonna hate the living guts out of this guy :(

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Current maps on heavy enemy waves in Nightmare will be near impossible to rebuild traps, should they get pushed back or destroyed because of being pushed back. Being interrupted from casting anything from taking just a single point of damage is already annoying enough to deal with as is ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Yeah, like anything else, the devil is in the details. If he's got the HP of an orc, not so big a deal. If he's got the HP of an ogre, very big deal - unless he comes in ogre-like quantities, in which case he's merely a huge pain in the ***, like the djinn.

The question and concern in my mind is how many "specialist anti-tower" critters there are going to be; with each new one we're having to devote more and more defenses to defending our defenses. At some point we'll reach the threshold of doing nothing but just trying to hold a stable line.

Having said that - the fact that they deliberately reference PLAYER damage as the solution suggests this guy may just be a fast mover/low HP thing. The devil is indeed in the details.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On a side note I think the visual design is great, whoever made that deserves a medal!

New desktop background :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
So Trendy nerfing solo play again. Seriously do the devs care there making this game harder and harder for new people to progress . Stop and look at your player base please the game should be focused to allow a player to solo to endgame without using other player's shops or trading. It is currently changing the high end players builds then preventing any new players reaching high end so adds nothing to the game.

I understand some players concerns that they want the game to not be hand holding. I would like those people to think on this you have nothing to lose from trendy streamlining the progression. You actually will benefit from it by having a better geared community that will have more experience due to the fact progression was linear for them not exponential like it is now. Allowing less stress and headaches when pubs join your games. In addition to this a better progression curve ultimately allows you to get better items so why wouldn't you want this?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I get the feeling that these new mooks will probably be easily distracted from their charge. I'm thinking if you can hit them as a player they will just stop their charge. Unfortunately the last thing we need at this point is something else that will run up past/through defenses to wail on the crystal instead of just the player.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I still stand by the fact that new mobs should be restricted to their specific map. Having sharks come charging out in a desert is just plain stupid.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I still stand by the fact that new mobs should be restricted to their specific map. Having sharks come charging out in a desert is just plain stupid.


Hehehe, yeah you would think the dessert is too dry for them, but hey, the new map Aquanos is all underwater right? So there is another weird fact. Our heroes walking and playing/breathing normally underwater and Fireball turrets and inferno traps underwater...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I still stand by the fact that new mobs should be restricted to their specific map. Having sharks come charging out in a desert is just plain stupid.


It would not be the first plain stupid thing in this game though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
It would not be the first plain stupid thing in this game though.


True, but by the end of the shards, we are going to have spiders, genies, sharkmen, and some enemy that can airlift other enemies and drop them in behind your defenses supposedly. Welcome to rage mode.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
True, but by the end of the shards, we are going to have spiders, genies, sharkmen, and some enemy that can airlift other enemies and drop them in behind your defenses supposedly. Welcome to rage mode.

For Genies, you need anti-air.
For spiders, you can use anti-air to kill them before they land.
For airlifts, you'll need anti-air...

So, are we going to get a hero that utterly dominates the sky completely, to prevent anything from getting in from above? Because that will only leave the Sharken as the new land-based enemy that doesn't come from the sky.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
So Trendy nerfing solo play again. Seriously do the devs care there making this game harder and harder for new people to progress . Stop and look at your player base please the game should be focused to allow a player to solo to endgame without using other player's shops or trading. It is currently changing the high end players builds then preventing any new players reaching high end so adds nothing to the game.

I understand some players concerns that they want the game to not be hand holding. I would like those people to think on this you have nothing to lose from trendy streamlining the progression. You actually will benefit from it by having a better geared community that will have more experience due to the fact progression was linear for them not exponential like it is now. Allowing less stress and headaches when pubs join your games. In addition to this a better progression curve ultimately allows you to get better items so why wouldn't you want this?

There isn't really any nerf about it. They are adding a new dynamic to the game for you to learn to deal with. I never personally had a problem with progression. I even made a second account where I didn't use my hard-earned mana to get cheap, good gear from afk shops (Which is, ya know.. Part of progression.. But some people don't seem to think so, so I gave it a try) I think the bigger problem is that people aren't given information about how to progress. Now with the survival changes (Which I still disagree with, but that's another issue), loot progression is easier than ever since you can farm late-wave insane maps for decent mythical gear or superloot godlies until you find a decent myth. It also makes it easier to farm entry-level transcendants in the earlier maps on NM (Area 1 maps particularly). Then you consider the fact that good gear is showing up in the shops now and mana is easier to get than ever since you can skip straight to the survival waves where it isn't uncommon to get over 10 mil per wave on insane and even much higher returns on NM. Many people seem to assume that just because they can't jump straight from insane glitterhelm to NM glitterhelm that progression is broken. They are just trying to skip a few steps.

Progression is greater than ever.

We won't know how tough sharks are til we get there. As long as they don't push traps or auras around, they shouldn't be any more of a nuissance than the other new enemies. You will just have to put more space between your defenses and the enemies front line and set up manners in which to kill them before they get to your towers.

We'll just have to see how they turn out, but it is far too early to assume they are a problem of any kind. But they especially aren't a 'nerf'

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
You know, this shark things might actually make the squire's balls useful again. I figure since those do knockback as well as damage, they can stop sharks from getting close to your defenses in order to push them. Just a thought.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
So... even more defenses to cover the defenses that are already covering some defenses, to deal with the new mob...

But wait... with the same DU than medium difficulty!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
So... even more defenses to cover the defenses that are already covering some defenses, to deal with the new mob...

But wait... with the same DU than medium difficulty!


My defenses are already covered in a way this would never be a problem to begin with with DU leftover.. So.. Sure.. Why not. (The extra layer you mention isn't necessary though. If your defenses are already covering your defenses properly, sharken shouldn't be an issue. Just something else your defense defenses are taking care of.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Many people seem to assume that just because they can't jump straight from insane glitterhelm to NM glitterhelm that progression is broken. They are just trying to skip a few steps.

Progression is greater than ever.

Thats just bull****, even if your gear allows you to easely finish Glitterhelm on Insane your not half rdy for any nightmare map except rampart/endless spire. Escpescially not for the first map on NM!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Thats just bull****, even if your gear allows you to easely finish Glitterhelm on Insane your not half rdy for any nightmare map except rampart/endless spire. Escpescially not for the first map on NM!


Uh, 100% disagreed... I was soloing NM deeper well through magus quarters without a problem well before I could 'easily' finish glitterhelm. Hell, I was getting to NM Deeper well wave 7-8 well before I could 'easily' finish glitterhelm insane. By the time I could 'easily' finish glitterhelm campaign on insane, I could get to wave 15 on NM deeper well and do any non-boss map before it on NM.

This is exactly what I hate about all these complaints about progression. As far as I can tell they are completely illegit and just sound like people trying to turn an already easy game even easier. If they are legit? All I can say is that maybe it's time to rethink how and where you are placing your towers.

I'm going to assume you're probably just laying down a bunch of bouncers and harpoons like everyone else and then wondering why it's so hard.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Well that's the thing. All the way through the end of Insane you can pretty much progress as a Squire or App without needing to create multiclass builds. As soon as you hit Nightmare though, your gear won't be good enough for this.

The game, on the other hand, doesn't stress the importance of combining class strong points in solo play early on. There's no tutorial on using them well together, no gradual introduction of it in any form. Instead there's a sudden wall where gear that seemed fine with single-class builds just doesn't cut it any more, and that wall is currently the Nightmare transition.

The curve just isn't smooth. You can transition to Nightmare by gearing and leveling a second character and using a mix of towers, but if you hadn't been doing that all along, learning to build quickly and efficiently while swapping characters is a whole new skill set you haven't developed gradually.

The curve looks a lot easier to advanced players because they have a skill set that the game does not teach you, and if you're fortunate enough to spot its need in time, you'll be okay. If not, it's quite a jarring transition.

One thing though that isn't talked about often is that these *are* difficulty levels. Nightmare isn't meant to be easy. It's meant to be considerably harder than Insane. The line of progression shouldn't be flat. It should be exponential because the game is supposed to get harder as you go along. But there shouldn't be a jump, it should still be a curve, but it's not right now because the game doesn't make what it is clear to players.

Online you can shop AFK shops to make up for this, or play with people. But many people play offline, or expect to be able to play with an App and Squire and do okay, and nothing in this game really prepares you for the fact that it's not intended to be a single-class game until suddenly you have to deal with spiders and djinns, both of which make single class builds harder because they are good at exploiting weaknesses in the main tower classes.

Just as a note: I'm not suggesting they should make it easier to play as just an App or just a Squire as you go into Nightmare, but rather make the Nightmare transition more of a curve. Perhaps only have Spiders in Area 1, then Spider + Djinn in Area 2, and then Spiders + Djinn + Sharken in Area 3, and the full range only on the bonus maps and Eternia for NM. This would introduce the new enemies one at a time, and give players the opportunity to adjust their strategies more gradually, and see how gas traps can help deal with Djinns without also having to learn to deal with spiders at the same time, etc. This would also have the added advantage of not making the very latest maps in the curve any easier at all, while teaching players how to get there in the process.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I fully agree with most of that, only I don't feel that progression is at all broken. Just, like you said, it's not explained to players how they need to be progressing.

In every aspect of the game I see someone complaining, it's generally about something I didnt ever have a problem with at all because I figured out for myself how to do it. Trendy needs more advanced tutelage.. And likewise players need to stop screaming at everyone else who has found a way around their problems (Including Trendy) for trying to help them learn new aspects of the game that would assist them.

There is a huge margin between the educated (Educated on game mechanics. Not IRL.) and uneducated on this game right now. Those who know how to play have it too easy and those who don't find it too hard.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I don't believe in "too easy" myself. If I want a level to be harder, I create my own conditions. "I'll do this level without ensnares." "I'll come up with a build that doesn't use any Squire towers." "Let's see if I can come up with a build that will finish this level with only 1000 max in any stat" etc.

Challenge is all artificial anyway. I think the point where a game is easy for experts, but will be failed if you don't learn it is exactly the right point for it to be. If it were hard for experts, that would mean that everyone who plays must become an expert to complete it, and expertise in a game often requires more time than one wants to put into it. A game is supposed to be fun, and not everyone has fun spending hours failing in different ways to develop a build, or researching builds on the internet.

The game needs a progression that allows a player to become competent (but not an expert) and learn the skills necessary to beat all the campaign levels (including Eternia). They do not necessarily need to be able to do this *easily* but they should be able to reach this with competent understanding of the game. The requirement of expertise should be reserved for challenges like Monsterfest and high wave survival. The "endgame."

Right now, the campaign itself is too hard for many players because of the sudden shift in required skills at the beginning of Nightmare, which could be alleviated without actually making the game easier by smoothing out the curve rather than having a jump in it. You'd still have the same challenge from NM Glitterhelm onward, but the nightmare campaign would survive as a better teaching tool to introduce people to the gameplay skills and requirements the game didn't previously introduce.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Perhaps only have Spiders in Area 1, then Spider + Djinn in Area 2, and then Spiders + Djinn + Sharken in Area 3, and the full range only on the bonus maps and Eternia for NM. This would introduce the new enemies one at a time, and give players the opportunity to adjust their strategies more gradually
You mean sort of like the eternia shards DLC where you meet spiders, then djinn, then sharken, all in isolation, and learn how to deal with them?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Except the Eternia shards levels would be hard for a lot of players coming from Insane even without the new mobs. Look at the number of drop points for spiders in MM, or the number of locations in Moraggo that Djinn can show up, as well as how spread out the crystals are and how many paths some of them have.

While a player could go straight on to MM after playing Insane through, it's just not a good learning map unless they drop the difficulty down to experiment with new things.

Also, Nightmare is supposed to be available to everyone after Eternia is finished, and not everyone will have these maps, which means Nightmare campaign needs to offer the same learning opportunities the expansion maps do. The whole point of Nightmare being released early is that it's partially a beta, so feedback like "Nightmare is much harder to learn if you can't play the Eternia maps" is especially relevant at this time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...