Poll: Does Dungeon Defenders need between-wave save points?

I'm creating this poll because my son and I love this game but are extremely frustrated by the inability to save the game between waves, so much so that we are giving up on the game until this change is made. We generally love the game (or I wouldn't be on this forum creating a poll!)

What's needed is saving tower positioning, damage, stray mana, and player mana- any stray loot would be forgotten. Loading from the save point would cost banked mana equivalent to the stray mana and chest mana on the level, and loaded chests / donkeys / etc would just have mana, not loot. The save point could be loaded as a choice from the tavern or after losing on a battle wave. This change would save players from having to replay an hour+ of easy waves to get to the final wave, plus help with recovery when there's a crash or when life interrupts play time...

Well as of the patch which was just released you can now start at any wave you've previously beaten. Might be worth trying. :squire:

That doesn't work on mission levels- just survival mode, right? During the mission you need all the mana required to rebuild defenses, plus the defenses themselves.

the new change allows you to start on any wave you have completed in survival with more mana from the chests to help you start out you're build depending on the wave you've chosen. This is for survival though so are you talking survival or normal campaign play through?

Normal campaign play is the issue. We are getting stuck on the desert level, and not in a fun way. After having replayed that VERY long level twice, and each time having a little problem resulting in failure on the final wave, we are giving up on the game until this feature is in. As the levels get longer we find the game is becoming an exercise in OCD- push the "easy wave" lever for an hour so you can have a bit of fun on the final wave. The game now mostly consists of playing fetch with chests and donkeys!

I know this is off topic, but Id be happy to help you and your son out on Morrago. (as long as your on PC of course) If you are hit me up with a friend request, My ID is in the Sig.

I know this is off topic, but Id be happy to help you and your son out on Morrago. (as long as your on PC of course) If you are hit me up with a friend request, My ID is in the Sig.

Thanks- that's kind offer, but that would feel like cheating for us I think. It's not that the level is too hard for us, it's that when we lose at the level it's a huge PIA to replay all the waves. If we just wanted to complete the level we could crank the difficulty down to "easy" or have you help us, but that also removes the fun of the game as it's no longer a challenge to solve.

I will not vote in your poll as the options given are quite obviously biased to your personal point of view. Campaign does not need this feature in my personal opinion. I am sorry that you and your son seem to be unable to correct what ever error may be causing your failure. Could it be worth looking at your build? or possibly running the map once on a lower setting to get an idea of mob flow to help you position your towers in an optimal position?

I see your problem, you and your son are having difficulty with a map and it is frustrating to have to start over when you fail (i personally say motivation to learn and not fail, but hey thats me). I see 2 solutions (and there are more im sure)

1. Your idea, Trendy invests huge amounts of dev and testing hours into implementing your "save" feature on campaigns

2. You (and or your son) could look over guides and discuss with other players the difficulty you are having and over come the issue. Certainly this will take more time for you and your son, as you will have to play through the map entirely. The benefit however is that the dev team can continue to develop new content for us, including the content ive already paid for and really want to get my hands on.

Unlike the posters above, i will not offer to carry you and your son through any maps, however if you would like to explain exactly what issue is preventing you from completing the map id be more then happy to provide some suggestions on what you may be able to do to overcome these hurdles.

I will not vote in your poll as the options given are quite obviously biased to your personal point of view. Campaign does not need this feature in my personal opinion. I am sorry that you and your son seem to be unable to correct what ever error may be causing your failure. Could it be worth looking at your build? or possibly running the map once on a lower setting to get an idea of mob flow to help you position your towers in an optimal position?

I see your problem, you and your son are having difficulty with a map and it is frustrating to have to start over when you fail (i personally say motivation to learn and not fail, but hey thats me). I see 2 solutions (and there are more im sure)

1. Your idea, Trendy invests huge amounts of dev and testing hours into implementing your "save" feature on campaigns

2. You (and or your son) could look over guides and discuss with other players the difficulty you are having and over come the issue. Certainly this will take more time for you and your son, as you will have to play through the map entirely. The benefit however is that the dev team can continue to develop new content for us, including the content ive already paid for and really want to get my hands on.

Unlike the posters above, i will not offer to carry you and your son through any maps, however if you would like to explain exactly what issue is preventing you from completing the map id be more then happy to provide some suggestions on what you may be able to do to overcome these hurdles.

Well, I hope the poll isn't biased, but I clearly am. I totally understand if you aren't finding this issue to be a show stopper. Feel free to vote "bah humbug".

The issue for me isn't that the difficulty is too hard. I don't want play help, map layout help, or to crank the difficulty down. The issue is that the eternia shard levels take so long to play through that losing is no longer an option at all. If you lose you are condemned to over an hour of tediously playing fetch with donkeys and chests. The game is simply no longer fun, and I would gladly trade this feature for a delay in the production of new levels.

But if you are failing, the repeat should not be tedious, as you should be changing something. What you did obviously did not work so your next run through (yes, an hour ish) should be different which keeps it interesting, at least for me. If you are failing continually (7,8,9 runs) then either your strategy needs to be reevaluated (yes this requires playing and trying new things) or possibly your stats arent upto par.

For future shards maps, i would not mind seeing the overall length reduced from an 1+ hours to more 30-45 min. However a "save" feature as you describe it would just take far too much dev time that i would much rather goto bug fixes and future content considering the function would only be helpful on a small number of maps and situations.

if you fail, try again.

the survival change was needed because of DCs and 7-10k + mobs per wave.

for campaign, just retry, no campaign map is THAT long or that hard. bar karathiki

if you fail, try again.

Its not failing the problem, its the hour (or several hours, for survival) that each try requires.

The new change make 0 difference for those of us with non-stellar stats, as theres no way you can afford to start on an advanced wave without full or nearly full upgrades.

I have no problem with the game rewarding hardcore gamers, as long as it also has content for everyone else. As it stands now, it has not.

Sometimes you need to repeat earlier levels if the towers are completely wrong, but most of the time failures can be fixed by tweaking layout or play style for the final wave. Also, it's interesting if saving is a "yes / no" question because you could choose to make your save point 2 waves before the final wave, giving more runway to make adjustments leading into the final wave.

I don't know that save has be so expensive- I'm only talking 1 save slot per player, and it's not a matter of saving monsters or loot, just towers and mana positions. Maybe it's expensive, maybe not.

In terms of this forum I'm probably an outlier in saying this feature is a show stopper for me. As in, if this feature doesn't go in then Trendy might as well stop developing the game entirely, because I'm not playing it anymore. If a save feature does go in, I'd go back and replay the entire game on a harder difficulty level. Even on earlier levels losing is punishing enough that you don't want to lose on a level more than a couple times.

For us, failing 4 times before winning on the spider queen level was already crossing into OCD territory. It was a fun level, but repeating all those early waves the third, fourth, and fifth time was very not fun. The donkey level is even worse in terms of tedium to get through, and after failing twice we decided the game had crossed the line into unplayable.

Its not failing the problem, its the hour (or several hours, for survival) that each try requires.

The new change make 0 difference for those of us with non-stellar stats, as theres no way you can afford to start on an advanced wave without full or nearly full upgrades.

I have no problem with the game rewarding hardcore gamers, as long as it also has content for everyone else. As it stands now, it has not.

have you tried the system? they give you crazy amounts of mana to start the wave even with non stellar gear.

If you want to use the system, you just have to rethink on what you up first.


there has to be a compromise somewhere. there has to be a slight added difficulty for the convenience of starting on any wave of your choice. and, lets say they cave in, imagine the server capacity needed to store every single paused game. this was a great addition but anything more is just being greedy.

Sometimes you need to repeat earlier levels if the towers are completely wrong, but most of the time failures can be fixed by tweaking layout or play style for the final wave. Also, it's interesting if saving is a "yes / no" question because you could choose to make your save point 2 waves before the final wave, giving more runway to make adjustments leading into the final wave.

I don't know that save has be so expensive- I'm only talking 1 save slot per player, and it's not a matter of saving monsters or loot, just towers and mana positions. Maybe it's expensive, maybe not.

In terms of this forum I'm probably an outlier in saying this feature is a show stopper for me. As in, if this feature doesn't go in then Trendy might as well stop developing the game entirely, because I'm not playing it anymore. If a save feature does go in, I'd go back and replay the entire game on a harder difficulty level. Even on earlier levels losing is punishing enough that you don't want to lose on a level more than a couple times.

For us, failing 4 times before winning on the spider queen level was already crossing into OCD territory. It was a fun level, but repeating all those early waves the third, fourth, and fifth time was very not fun. The donkey level is even worse in terms of tedium to get through, and after failing twice we decided the game had crossed the line into unplayable.

bro? only lost 4 times and you're complaining?

in this day and age, if you have trouble with the queen, its because your layout is wrong for that last wave. as a tip, remove anti air and extend gas traps to lock all 4 corners and add reflection beams to weaken the boss.

have you tried the system? they give you crazy amounts of mana to start the wave even with non stellar gear.

If you want to use the system, you just have to rethink on what you up first.


there has to be a compromise somewhere. there has to be a slight added difficulty for the convenience of starting on any wave of your choice. and, lets say they cave in, imagine the server capacity needed to store every single paused game. this was a great addition but anything more is just being greedy.

All they have to save is defences, it wouldnt be a real save game. I dont think it would be a huge issue, sure requires some work but definitely doable.

OR they can take the OTHER route and just make the game much quicker, as it is now this is just turning in another grindfest mmorpg


And yes I have tried the system, starting on wave 10 you get barely enough mana to get your setup and upgrade 1 or 2 things. Maybe it is usefull for endgame with superhigh stats and starting in waves when there are not so many ogres, but for me this is totally useless

I don't really see how saving between waves would help. If you lose it's generally going to be because your defenses are set up poorly or you just don't have the stats for whatever level you are trying. You're not really going to be able to tweak your defenses around much once they are already set and upgraded and you've just got the mana from chests to work with. I mean I guess it would let you try different characters or pets in the combat phase but if that was all you needed you'd hardly need a save as you should be walking right though everything up to that point anyway.

Just drop the difficulty a level. There is no shame in it and I'm willing to bet actually beating the stage and getting a better idea of the enemy placements/movements will be more fun than "wasting" another hour. Even though during that hour you keep all the mana/exp/loot you earned even if you lose. So I would hardly call it a waste to begin with but whatever.

Anyway to use a save system that would let you significantly rework your defenses to better your chances at clearing whatever you are stuck on would be too easy to abuse, I think.

All they have to save is defences, it wouldnt be a real save game. I dont think it would be a huge issue, sure requires some work but definitely doable.

OR they can take the OTHER route and just make the game much quicker, as it is now this is just turning in another grindfest mmorpg


And yes I have tried the system, starting on wave 10 you get barely enough mana to get your setup and upgrade 1 or 2 things. Maybe it is usefull for endgame with superhigh stats and starting in waves when there are not so many ogres, but for me this is totally useless

upgrade the buff beams. if youre not using buff beams, youre doing it wrong if you want to start like this.

as for the survival thing, i very much rather see a decrease in the number of mobs, than a save feature as depicted in this thread.

getting tired of the 9k+ mobs per wave.

He's not talking about survival, he's not asking for help, he's just saying he and his kid find having to grind for 60 minutes to retry a boss fight is a bit dull.

That's fair enough. But, it's much like other games, only the grind here is a little more tedious. Most games have a bit you need to play through to get to the end boss, whatever that boss might be. Be it, I don't know, a helicopter in an FPS, or some weird twisted deity in Bayonetta. Difference is, most other games have checkpoints through the levels. This doesn't. That's all he's asking for.

If you don't agree, that's fine, but stop offering to help, stop derailing this with survival talk (that's literally just been fixed) and stop bashing his build which you haven't seen (since he clearly wants to solve this for himself).

Having more starting mana is not enough bc
you have to rebuild and reupgrade a ton of towers to 3 stars.

Also there is a campaign issue - Shards are much longer than average campaing map
but they do not have "bonus mana" feature like in survival.

Checkpoint\save feature would work much better!

Having more starting mana is not enough bc
you have to rebuild and reupgrade a ton of towers to 3 stars.

Also there is a campaign issue - Shards are much longer than average campaing map
but they do not have "bonus mana" feature like in survival.

Checkpoint\save feature would work much better!

That's not true; you do get bonus mana on the first wave of campaign.

He's not talking about survival, he's not asking for help, he's just saying he and his kid find having to grind for 60 minutes to retry a boss fight is a bit dull.

That's fair enough. But, it's much like other games, only the grind here is a little more tedious. Most games have a bit you need to play through to get to the end boss, whatever that boss might be. Be it, I don't know, a helicopter in an FPS, or some weird twisted deity in Bayonetta. Difference is, most other games have checkpoints through the levels. This doesn't. That's all he's asking for.

If you don't agree, that's fine, but stop offering to help, stop derailing this with survival talk (that's literally just been fixed) and stop bashing his build which you haven't seen (since he clearly wants to solve this for himself).

Thanks zingfharn!

I wish an official person would reply, but at least I feel like I can quit the game with a clear conscience now. Unless this goes in I think the game is likely to have a rapidly dwindling hard core audience. I work at Microsoft and we have the same problem- writing software for MVPs and people that still use Access and Visual Basic. It's easier to add depth there than to add high value features to the basics, like a cleaned up copy / paste from MS Word. Trendy needs to think about the broader audience!

The problem is that the "broader audience" doesn't seem to agree with your opinion and in general has no problems palying out the game as designed.

If *you* personally do not want to play the game with the difficulties and challenges required by design then that is of course your option however unfoundedly projecting your opinions onto the greater gaming public is a mistake on your part in perspective.

Example: neither I nor anyone that I play with has an issue with the current design of "fight through X levels to encounter the boss". It is a challenge and we view it as such. In my opinion, to allow us to just continually replay the final wave over and over would lessen the accomplishment of the final victory.

The problem is that the "broader audience" doesn't seem to agree with your opinion and in general has no problems palying out the game as designed.

If *you* personally do not want to play the game with the difficulties and challenges required by design then that is of course your option however unfoundedly projecting your opinions onto the greater gaming public is a mistake on your part in perspective.

Example: neither I nor anyone that I play with has an issue with the current design of "fight through X levels to encounter the boss". It is a challenge and we view it as such. In my opinion, to allow us to just continually replay the final wave over and over would lessen the accomplishment of the final victory.

I agree with this statement, however it was pretty evident from the way the answers ere worded how the OP wanted people to vote. Either way I don't see this 'feature' getting implemented; like Vallos implied it would cheapen the game.

Shouldn't this be in the suggestions area of the forum?

Anyways, they're adding a "start at any wave you've gotton to" in survival, so I don't think a save feature is needed