Thank you for Nerfing Squire :)

I am glad they are nerfing squire damage, squire is overused and apprentice is under appreciated everyone is so obsessed with squire\countess towers and dps its ridiculous Ive been able to run nightmare hc campaign and some of the challenges just fine using mostly apprentice and i don't have a single stat breaking 900 on my app.

Or, you know... they could have just given some good buffs to the apprentice to make it more viable and actually open up new styles of play and doing levels rather than reducing them.

Or, you know... they could have just given some good buffs to the apprentice to make it more viable and actually open up new styles of play and doing levels rather than reducing them.

I so agree :)

[QUOTE]Or, you know... they could have just given some good buffs to the apprentice to make it more viable and actually open up new styles of play and doing levels rather than reducing them. [/QUOTE]

App is perfectly Viable I have used it over squire since day 1 and have encountered very few problems

Currently harpoons deal less DPS than my magic missile turrets (using near same gear; weapon is different). That's more DU for roughly the same DPS (rounding up for piercing). Harpoons need a 10-40% bump in dps, in my opinion.

Edit: This is in nightmare mode. Harpoons deal double and some change the DPS of magic missiles OUTSIDE of nightmare. This is fine, in my opinion. I don't understand why they mess with ratios between classes. Everyone should scale the same into nightmare (and between classes; cough cough health points). Nightmare scaling is so wonky.

People aren't complaining about the nerf for campaign and challenges, it won't affect you much there. It's end game survival and new comers where the problem lies. Tbh I would rather have my Adept as my main builder, but the apprentice and her life both need a major buff to do so. Otherwise I may as well try apprentice towers and high health/dps/resist character instead.

This would be great except Apps are still crappy, its just squires are crappier than what they previously were.

App is perfectly Viable I have used it over squire since day 1 and have encountered very few problems

How far can you get on Misty or Moraggo NM HC Mixed Mode with your App?

I switched to squire when they nerfed my app. Like you, OP, I could do campaign just fine, but survival, where the better gear is, required me to do something else. I didn't know there was a squire bug, but just as I was getting to the hallelujah moment of seeing green items again, this bug fix occurs.

I don't think the major complaint is getting thru campaign. It's getting better gear that you get beyond campaign, and if you can't survive long enough to do it, or in this case if you finally were able to with the squire only to have it weakened, it feels like a real setback. Just like when I'd invested so much into my app.

As above, I'd rather they buff other heroes rather than nerf the ones that can actually do anything.

I think the main problem that many people are complaining about is that just when it seems possible to progress, the goal posts get moved back even further. And then other people get on and call us whiners, saying they do fine with they're "ok gear," when in fact they're "ok gear" is much better then what those of us just breaking into survival have... because they got their gear before all this happened, and because they've progressed far enough ahead that what many of us think is stellar gear is only ok to them.

I am glad they are nerfing squire damage, squire is overused and apprentice is under appreciated everyone is so obsessed with squire\countess towers and dps its ridiculous Ive been able to run nightmare hc campaign and some of the challenges just fine using mostly apprentice and i don't have a single stat breaking 900 on my app.

Try doing wave 20+ of Moraggo and get back to me about how great the nerf is. ;)

I am pretty sure karma cant even reach wave 15 misty or moraggo nm mix.
Hell im sure he cant even reach deeper wells wave 15 nm hc mix with his app build.

And if he shows me ill gladly give him 10 tokens as reward.

they want users to buy the EV, isn't it clear, get an EV, buff towers equals a strong build.

they want users to buy the EV, isn't it clear, get an EV, buff towers equals a strong build.

This.

For sure, EV has changed things. One buff beam is what you need to be back on rails. Walls are less DU's to use too. A lot of squire-based builds can be rethought just by adding these 2 elements, and will be more effective than before. So I think you can be right. By lowering the squire, they increase EV's effectiveness. This statement can be seconded by the scalling of the buff beam : even an EV under 74 can boost fine enough to get to w15 on most campaign' survival with <1k stats (not mix i mean)

Squire is history now.

Poor kid... doing campaign maps...

Now, try survivals with your flawless '900stats' app

I am pretty sure karma cant even reach wave 15 misty or moraggo nm mix.
Hell im sure he cant even reach deeper wells wave 15 nm hc mix with his app build.

And if he shows me ill gladly give him 10 tokens as reward.

Are you saying you were able to get to wave 20 on Misty HC mixed with <900 stats on your squire before this patch? I am impressed.

I was just about to plunk down more money for Trendy. I have been enjoying my progression(as in, it was actually moving forward finally) and was thinking of getting EV to make it even better. Then they pull a d!ck move like this because they want more EV sales or they simply want to appease some hardcore folks who are in the top 5%.

Already had most of my friends quit after 7.16. And I was getting close to pulling one back in, but GL to that now. What's the friggin point of a change like this? Aggrivate your customers?

Poor kid... doing campaign maps...

Now, try survivals with your flawless '900stats' app

Why do you think survival is impossible with Apprentice post 7.16? Mine is up to ~1100 tower damage now, but I've gotten up to wave 20 on Alch Labs using mostly App towers (App as active hero), 4 Harpoons, and a few Proxies. I only stopped at 20 because I ran out of RL time. Or maybe you meant survival on one particular map?

Truth is, if you look at the patch notes, Apprentice is actually better off now with MM/Lightning Towers as of 7.20 than it was before 7.16, when they were the dominant builder (1000 - 15% + 20% = 1020). Only Fireball Towers are weaker than they used to be, since DST wasn't touched as far as I could tell.

[QUOTE]Poor kid... doing campaign maps...

Now, try survivals with your flawless '900stats' app[/QUOTE]

never said my stats were flawless i was just saying that challenges and campaign are completely doable with those stats or lower as for survival could care less takes too long for it to be worth it.

For me there are two problems:
1. App doesn't have anti-djinn towers. MM is weak, FB - Fire immunes, DST - very expensive and slow.
2. App's HP. Try to play Karathiki SV waves 13+. I guess wave's 30 DEWs can one-shot a 500k hp barbarian in turtle stance.

All these people in here touting their awesome apprentices with low stats and how far they can get.

Then why do you have low stats? Hmm? Can't seem to get far enough to maybe upgrade your stats? Whatever.

All these people in here touting their awesome apprentices with low stats and how far they can get.

Then why do you have low stats? Hmm? Can't seem to get far enough to maybe upgrade your stats? Whatever.

Well with <900 stats you should be farming misty campaign or umf, so how far you can make it in survival should be a concern until they're ready for it. Misty campaign has gotten me stats of 1000/1300/650/850.

I think reducing the squire damage to be inline with the apprentice will force people use use builds that aren't primarily harpoons. It didn't really make sense that the squire was the best builder, best dps and had the highest survive-ability.

All these people in here touting their awesome apprentices with low stats and how far they can get.

Then why do you have low stats? Hmm? Can't seem to get far enough to maybe upgrade your stats? Whatever.

Some of us have these things called "jobs", maybe you have heard of them? Not everyone wants to piss away their free time on survival.

All the people with awesome gear are either too busy crying about how flavor of the month is no longer brokenly overpowered or out trying to figure out the new optimum builds. Which one are you again?

Some of us have these things called "jobs", maybe you have heard of them? Not everyone wants to piss away their free time on survival.

All the people with awesome gear are either too busy crying about how flavor of the month is no longer brokenly overpowered or out trying to figure out the new optimum builds. Which one are you again?

I wonder what percentage of the player base plays survival past wave 14 or at all for that matter. Most people I run into in public games aren't interested in it because it takes a really long time and is fairly boring because you have to make sure you don't die.

I would guess only 5-10% people play survival.

I wonder what percentage of the player base plays survival past wave 14 or at all for that matter. Most people I run into in public games aren't interested in it because it takes a really long time and is fairly boring because you have to make sure you don't die.

I would guess only 5-10% people play survival.

6,000 spawns per wave FTW.

Just think, once D3 drops, how much character advancement in D3 can one do in the amount of time it takes to do one survival run?

Coming May 15th, reality will be sinking in as to the Time Versus Fun Versus Reward Concept.