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Fixed bug that was erroneously giving Squire Tower 60% extra damage in Nightmare?

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Could we get some clarification on this point? At face value this seems like a very very big error/change. Does it apply to all squire towers or just one. Is this happening all the time or just certain situations. Will this basically destroy all current strategies involving Squire builds?

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basically i think it should be read as "now you cant complain that squire towers are 10 times more effective than app towers in nightmare mode."

there was no bug. if there was it would have been fixed 2 months ago, when they all saw how much damage squire towers were doing.

this is an ultimate /facepalm.

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It is an all the time thing. You can see the difference between the damage in the Tavern and in NM stages. This doesnt sound like good news to me either way. Squire towers were pretty much the only thing allowing me to make any significant progress in early NM and I was under the impression most people believed the otherrcharacters needed more tower damage to keep up not the reverse.

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It is an all the time thing. You can see the difference between the damage in the Tavern and in NM stages. This doesnt sound like good news to me either way. Squire towers were pretty much the only thing allowing me to make any significant progress in early NM and I was under the impression most people believed the otherrcharacters needed more tower damage to keep up not the reverse.

All towers, traps and such, do a greatly increased amount of damage in NM compared to in the tavern. It's by design. I don't know why they'd do a nerf of 60% damage, since that'd literally make squire useless in NM, leaving everything else to do more damage by a long shot. You'd need tower stats of 1k across the board just to -enter- nightmare mode.

I suspect it's strictly limited to an edge case situation.

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it pretty much means everyone is going to lose 4k+ damage off their harpoons in NM mode. and i think this is more of a way to nerf the effectiveness of buffbeams than anything else, since with a 5 star buffbeam on a 5 starred harpoon, 100k damage was not difficult at all to achieve.

either way, this has me angry, because instead of make app towers stronger, like needs to be done, they make squire towers weaker, effectively making nightmare 30% more difficult.

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Its because Squire towers in NM were getting a larger modifer to their damage in NM (I believe it was 160% bonus). App towers for example only got a 60% bonus to damage. That is why everyone has flocked to the squire towers.

So if your harpoon was doing 15k hits in insane, in nightmare it would do 41k. However the App towers only got the 60% modifier thus if they were say doing 12k hits in insane, in nightmare it they would do ~20k.

Though I wonder why its taken them this long to finally fix it. Its been brought up when nightmare was still brand new in DLC1.

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Am I the only one who noticed squire towers get 60% dmg increase in 7.16? Patch notes stated: "* All Squire Towers HP buffed by 60% in NM, Harpoon Turret rotate speed increased by 40%" but it actually increased both dmg and hp. After a while I thought it was intended since they hadn't changed it back but I guess I was wrong.

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there was a huge debacle with the 7.16 notes that most people dont want to go into again. squire towers received a huge (intentional) boost in NM mode that apps still have not received, which is why everyone uses squire towers in NM mode, coupled with the fact that since they throw 8 million ogres at you, you have to have them for the piercing they bring.

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If these changes go through, I hope the next patch note is
*Reduced Ogre, DEW, Wyvern, and Djinn Hit points and Damage by 60%

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[c3;401570']coupled with the fact that since they throw 8 million ogres at you, you have to have them for the piercing they bring.


This is EXACTLY why I only use Harpoons/Bowlers as my main damaging force in NM. App towers are worthless to the Running of the Ogres. And this nerf will not change that.

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This change is going to break NM so much and is only going to cause more frustration among the DD community.

Trendy, please think about these changes before you make them, and listen to your community. If your goal of this nerf is to increase the attractiveness of App towers, this isn't the right path...

My suggestion: If you're going to nerf the harpoon's damage, at least reduce the HP of enemies in NM (or at least Ogres, Djinns, DEWs, and Wyverns...and maybe spiders?). App towers are already useless in NM. Maybe an HP nerf to enemies will make them somewhat viable again.

/2cents

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Uh...yeah.... this is going to kick a lot of lower players out of nightmare, and make higher-end nightmare a whole lot tougher for a lot of people. I really don't know that's a fix you want to make. Piercing turrets are the only way to deal with the absolutely ridiculous number of ogres that stream out in a unit at the end of Nightmare Survivals.

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I dont think you can ever balance this game when numbers/modifiers are totally random and its possible to have a bug this big live in-game for 2 months...
by random I mean that it seems like they just put lets say 1.60 modifier somewhere without thinking about it that much...and when you do this everywhere...its impossible to balance it. Just look at the previous patch notes... 40% nerf here, 40% buff there...there numbers are so freaking big...just imagine this happening in any other item equip based game...I mean...these numbers are what makes the game and it just feels totally random...all those NM special modifiers etc, its a mess.

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Well, I guess that's it then. When this patch is released I am practically stuck. No NM, since I can't get high-end gear, and I absolutely refuse to do nothing but Insane HC Glitter runs over and over again, just to get the mana to even GET higher end gear, because I've already had to run Insane HC Glitter more times than I really care and I'm getting sick of the grind-fest. I shouldn't have to do just one map over and over and over and over again just to barely be able to complete another map. I was getting back into the game, with Series EV being released, but now you're only inhibiting players from advancing further.

There's absolutely no reason for me to play anymore.

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i want to know how much my harpoons are going to hit for post patch.


If I had to take a guess. You said your turrets hit for 260k with a App Guardian? After the patch my assumption is they will hit for ~160k instead. That would put the multiplier for NM dmg in line with 1.6 that App towers have instead of the 2.6 that squire towers currently have.

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Perhaps they are trying to get Nightmare more in line with what they wanted the mode to be. You know the word "Nightmare" tends to have implied meaning and "Easy with Harpoons" isn't it. Though honestly if they are going to push Nightmare mode up to true Nightmare difficulty perhaps the ability to run Insane with all the DLC mobs and slightly better rewards would be in order.

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well, this was just added

* Reduced # of Ogres in Survival Nightmare by 40%

of course, 18 djinn still spawn on a map at one time if there are 4 players in it, so im not sure how much faith to put in that. and it also doesnt change the fact that ogre trains need harpoons to deal with them, and it does nothing for UMF1/2 and OMF.

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...and now we have a sudden nerfing of the number of ogres in Nightmare. No offense, but there's no way that second item was testd. That was thrown in because of comments here. Whether people are right or not - and they are - this is not the kind of knee-jerk balancing we need, Trendy. With all due respect, things need a LOT more consideration and planning than this.

Do you want to increase nightmare difficulty? Do you want to achieve tower parity?

How EACH of those questions is answered affects what should be done going forward. Quit this knee-jerk stuff. :(

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well. i wont scream for heads to roll until i hear exactly what accessories are.

If they're earrings / rings and just stat slots.. it could be 2 3 or 4 extra item slots to boot stats across the board. combo that with the squire nerf stick and you have a viable mage class again.

We will see.

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Do you want to increase nightmare difficulty? Do you want to achieve tower parity?

How EACH of those questions is answered affects what should be done going forward. Quit this knee-jerk stuff. :(


I think the answer is yes to both Fred.

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im curious about the accessories as well, but i think adding secondary effects, such as piercing, elemental damage, like that, would serve better than just added 2-300 more tower or hero stats.

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