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Stop ALL PATCH WORK and fix disconnect game deletion!!


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No other problem has completely ruined as many games as any connectivity issue instantly resulting in complete game deletion. This game has runs that take at least an hour, some which take over 4 to complete. Any any connection instability on our end, steam's end, or trendy's end deletes our game.

We have brought this up time and time again and I have yet to see one dev response.

It is simply terrible that you have no game pause or game save or auto-save feature that prevents our games from being deleted. This is the most heinous form of DRM I have ever experienced in any game. It makes Ubisoft look tempered. Fix. This. Issue.

Seriously. Stop everything and just fix this. We have suffered lost games again and again and the only response I have ever seen to the issue is blaming steam, our connections, or one of a 1/2 dozen other issue. Fact of the matter is connection instability happens in all games, and its your product that can't cope with it and deletes hours of playtime because of it.

Please, can we get a dev response to this issue? If you're never going to fix it, just tell us already. And if you are, let us know when to expect to see it.

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Not to be rude. But all the posts ive seen from you are complaining posts. Do you have any things good about this game to say? As for connectivity i never have connectivity issues to the game unless my net goes down or steam goes down. Not once has it been due to Trendy servers. The game you create is based on your host which means if you get d/c'd yes your game is gonna be lost. If they were to make a save option you would have to see much longer wave counts on all maps. Survival is 1 thing but its sruvival you can get there again like in all other maps.

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I agree 100%

Here's an example: In Diablo 2 I could do a loot run in under 15 minutes. I didn't have to worry about disconnections.

In Dungeon Defenders, loot runs can take HOURS. There needs to be SOME kind of progress save, even if it means saving every 7 waves or something, or saving at wave 15, anything, anything like that is better than the current system of,

"Oh, you lost 4 hours worth of work. I'm sorry. There's nothing I can do about it."

That's just simply not true. There IS something that can be done. I hope that something IS done.

Heck, even this post I'm writing was JUST AUTO-SAVED!!!!!! Even the forums auto-save and it's only taken me a couple minutes to write this, not 3-4 HOURS.

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Sylesta, I'm not complaining because its fun. I'm frustrated by a lot of issues with the game. And the devs, while they do make strides to fix some issues brought up, gives us extremely little feedback on anything that is happening. So while I made a lot of posts pointing out flaws, I do so in the hope they will be fixed. And I harp on subjects because I have no idea if Trendy knows about the issue, cares, or is willing to do anything about it.

However the issue of deleted games has nothing to do with which connection has failed to respond to a packet. My complaint isn't about Trendy's servers, it is how they are connected. I can name no other game that utilizes steam that, if Steam goes dark for 15 seconds, it will boot you out of your game. Not L4D, TF2, Killing Floor, etc.

And the issue isn't that the games are hosted locally. It might be an excuse for your friends being disconnected from you, but not why your game is deleted and you are kicked out. DD already automatically attempts to reconnect and automatically re-login to their servers if you are disconnected. So why not pause the active game while it retries for a few minutes? I am not asking them to make all connections online to be perfect, nor to reinvent their system to not involve steam. I feel this is a reasonable request, and one that would solve a huge annoyance.

No system of DRM should wipe out your game progress over NETWORK INSTABILITY. It is unfair to the paying customer, and that is what we are and it is exactly what is happening to us. I appreciate the work Trendy does, but my 'compliment' for them is buying their DLC to support them. They can check their bank statement if they want a pat on the head. But its either complain here, or stop purchasing their product. I think they'd prefer complaints

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I played this game now for over 500h and had just a few dcs from trendys side, the dcs that are happening all the time are the blame of steam. I have a chatwindow open all the time so I defenitly know that its steam and not trendy.
I hate it too to lost hours of progression, but a possibility to save has nothing to do in a survival.

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Hi there,

Well I've been disconnected atleast 3 times by Trendy while I was doing survival, when you are at wave 15+ it's a real pain to get disconnected and lose all your progress.
I've also been disconnected for a numerous times by Steam itself (losing connection, no friendlist etc).

But Trendy choose to work with Steam and if a connection problem from either side can cause a lot of gameplayloss I'd say that that is a problem that should be adressed.
And it would be nice that somewhere in the future something will be added in a patch that will deal with this particular problem.

Ow and even though the text is a complain doesn't mean that it isn't an actual problem.

Yours truly,

Domistroy

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Do you even know what DRM is?

Digital Rights Management. A system to ensure that the people using the material have the right to do so. Its what Steam is, and its why TrendyNet exists in the first place. They use Steam user verification. If steam goes down for a moment, that is why you get logged out of Dungeon Defenders.

The layering of these systems which, if connection is lost, causes us to delete our games (even if they are are hosted locally and only occupied by us) is DRM. While I doubt they will remove DRM from thair game, nor would I ask them to, I don't think we should accept it interfering with our paid experience. DRM should not hurt the consumer, and they could fix the issue so that it wouldn't. But unless they do, they are hurting our gaming experience to thwart people who DIDN'T pay them.

I played this game now for over 500h and had just a few dcs from trendys side, the dcs that are happening all the time are the blame of steam. I have a chatwindow open all the time so I defenitly know that its steam and not trendy.
I hate it too to lost hours of progression, but a possibility to save has nothing to do in a survival.


Again, it doesn't matter if it is Trendy with the connection problem or Steam. No other games boot you to the main menu when Steam hiccups. Trendy can't redesign their reliance on steam realistically, however they could add a system to protect our games from auto-deletion. If not "auto saves" then pausing while attempting to reconnect. There is absolutely no reason paying customers should have to suffer due to DRM, but that is the situation Trendy has created.

When your game is deleted, its not because of Steam, or because your router flubbed for a moment. Its because Trendy doesn't seem to care if your game gets deleted.

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Domistroy is right. Trendy chose to use a severely unreliable network in Steam friends. Should Trendy be excused from that poor decision? Only if they want to anger their customers. This has been a common complaint - and a valid one at that.

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The game you create is based on your host which means if you get d/c'd yes your game is gonna be lost. If they were to make a save option you would have to see much longer wave counts on all maps. Survival is 1 thing but its sruvival you can get there again like in all other maps.


Well first, since the gamestate is saved on the host there is no reason for the host to lose anything. As many have suggested, a pause feature would freeze the gamestate on the host while it waits for a reconnect to whatever steam server sits between them and TE, as opposed to dumping the gamestate and returning to the main menu as is used currently.

Also I'm curious about your second issue. How does a feature of this nature mandate an increase in wave count? You say it's because it's "Survival". First the waves are finite, allowing full repairs between, basically allowing each wave to start as a fresh attempt though more difficult. Forcing players to replay through waves that have become trivial and unrewarding is simply bad game design. Think of it as akin to having to play through every level on the campaign to get to glitterhelm each time. Then add the possibility that all the work done to get past the trivial part, the only reward being that a point of possible progression is reached, can vanish with a slight hiccup at any point in network communications.

If anyone is going to bring up that such a feature could be exploitable, I can only say that those who are going to exploit are going to find a way regardless and please don't rob the legitimate playerbase of a feature that would improve the game experience.

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.. I agree that this is an issue that needs to be resolved, but a save feture is not the answer. Its survival you got to survive for as long as possible, the whole premise of the entire game. and we wouldnt need a save feature if, like some of the previous posters said, it "paused" or saved the game on the back end end for a few minutes while we try to reconnect so that way we dont lose our progress for no fault of our own. it could dump the game after say like 2 minutes of no network activity.. just some thoughts.. not THAT hard to do

..BTW... being disconnected 5 kills away from completing wave 14 NM MM HC Magus to try and get a good pet... SUUUUCKS

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I cant even play the game anymore because it crashes every time i run it and i barely even got to play it, so many threads about this also.
Hey Trendy , it's really nice how you have more time to work on DLC instead of fixing bugs , how about you take the time and listen to the community instead of just pulling out wallets?

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I almost never have the problems mentioned above. I rarely ever get disconnected from steam and I've only had Trendy go down for patches.

A local save game feature would be nice but I would much rather them work on getting the game back to working order rather than work on this. I also have no illusions of having power over Trendy's actions by making a demand on the forums. I do not believe my $30 spent on a game gives me that right.

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im not suggesting I have any power, I trust in what tready does, which is why i spent money on their DLC, most of the time I can play fine, just it happens more freaquently then other games, so just throwing in some suggestions, it wont kill me if they never fix it, just would be nice ;-)

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Well just want to say i play on the ranked server and i just dont go for treadmill pet anymore takes to long and sucks most the time i try not to complain alot about things but yea the leaning on steam network as much as trendy does for there authorizing is the real problem. Steam is most unstable network ive used. So it is and isnt trendy's fault

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eey again,

I don't think some of the people quite understood the "save" future, it is just to make sure that if you haven't died and lose connection that you can continue from that point. it's not a save future that will allow you to go back to the point at which you were still alive.

Yours truly,

Domistroy

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When you log back in it should ask "would you like to continue your last game?" if the game did not finish properly(ie: win or crystal dying). At the point it will try to connect to the host, or the host will remake the game. It should start during the build phase of whatever wave you are on and have no timer giving others ample time to reconnect.

This is a simple save that can be done at the start of each build phase. It will save all tower and ground loot info, plus host info. If host cannot reconnect then it is lost. If I hosted a game and someone else rejoined before me and became the new host it may cause issues.

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There aren't many online action multiplayer games where a game state is frozen and saved for multiple players across a network. I've seen RTS games like that, but I don't know of any action games. Doesn't mean they don't exist, someone could point some out here. It's not trivial to pause a game state like that and bring everything back, while maintaining sync across all clients. What do you do if one of the clients isn't present on restart? And I assume they can't allow multiple saves, and that once a save is restored is can't be restored again. If not you could just save when one mob is left on wave 14, and then keep restoring to rake in the pets. Where would the save be stored? In the cloud or local? If local, what happens when you go to play on a different machine (I do this). Your character is now out of sync with the save.

All of these issues do have answers. My point is that the solution you want is not easy. I think its hard enough and in such low demand that the devs would probably not take the time to work on a major overhaul to the network code.

Allowing longer time for connections to be reestablished before dropping the game sounds pretty reasonable though. That's changing a single number (or a few numbers) in the code. They could add some sort of user based input into dropping games like they do on RTS games when one of the clients is laggy. (i.e. vote to kick the laggy person or vote to continue game, etc.)

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I really do think this issue IS in demand. I have spoken to few people who haven't suffered through hour plus games being blipped out of existence. If they won't add the system because they can't, then a dev could show us the courtesy of explaining this to us. When our frustration is ignored, it just frustrates us more.

Being a paying customer doesn't entitle me to a hotline to the devs or explanations about whatever I ask. However if this continues to be ignored, I just won't be a paying customer of theirs anymore.

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I would like to see something done about this too. I've seen some games that are player hosted go into a pause mode "waiting on host". Can we get something like that?
Also sometimes my friends take up 2 lives when loading an assault map, and gets disconnected or even client crash when I hit restart level return to tavern button. And seen instances of everything going smoothly then being kicked to Game screen "no games found adjust filter settings"



I don't know if all those are latency related issues, but I would like to survive if the game looses connection for a second or two.

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For those of us with not the most stable of internet connections this is a big issue. Occasionally my connecting will drop for a second or so, and when this happens I lose all progress of a game I'm hosting or I'll get booted from any game I've joined.

What I would like is a timeout period where it would try to reestablish connection to the servers before kicking you or closing your game. Currently the timeout period is 0, connection is gone for a sec and your game vanishes.

Would it be so hard that if the host loses connection to the tredy servers that the game pauses for a min or so to try to reestablish connection. Or if you are not the host and lose connection it does not pause the game but gives you 30 sec or so to get connection back before it kicks you from a game.

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I've never tried to code a save or pause feature into anything. I'm curious if anyone has, would it simply be saving all the variable states and database values (if they use database values) the game is at? And then when the game is reloaded it simply restores the variable states? Has anyone tried to code anything like this?

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I've never tried to code a save or pause feature into anything. I'm curious if anyone has, would it simply be saving all the variable states and database values (if they use database values) the game is at? And then when the game is reloaded it simply restores the variable states? Has anyone tried to code anything like this?

Never done it, but the game state should be saved Trendy server-side, otherwise people might be able to mess with games.

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