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Why not making DD more playable? Handle kicking and progression issues!


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After 450+ hours of play I'd like to give my 5 cents concering my opinion about the current DD gameplay. Thing is: I get more and more frustrated about the game. Why?
1 Gameplay is like "You need to kill the boss in order to get the gear to kill him" - thats impossible.
2 Because the above does not work one can attempt to join a party who is able to kill the boss. Promptly one gets kicked because he/she has not the gear to kill the boss :)
3 The game-evolution is more concerned about keeping the few top players (with mostly modded gear) interested by making the game more and more difficult. Previously beaten levels are suddenly out of reach.

Because of the above I no longer see possibilities to steady progress. Unless I spent money in a paypal store to get the fully upgraded hacked gear, which I refuse to do.

OK, what would I like to see fixed in order to get my fun back?

1 Hard difficulty should get godly gear being beatable with moderate-high normal gear,
Insane gets mythical gear being beatable with moderate-high godly gear,
Nightmare gets transcendent gear and is beatable with moderate-high mythical gear. Quite simple and every player progresses with regular play.
2 Insert a "kicking-cap". Move hosts to "private match" when they kick a fixed number of more or less equal levelled players right after entering. This habit is unfair and I do not think the kick-option was meant this way. But regrettably it is mostly used this way and developers really really need to develop a solution.
3 Let those top-players be. In little time they'll be able to beat whatever was thrown at them, making the gap between them and the average player even wider. This was the case when level cap was raised to 74 and it seems to get expotentional. Concentrate on the casual player who has a few hours in the evening to play. Let him progress and keep him interested.

As for me: with my 6 74+ chars ~700-850-500-600 the last 75 hours brought me little to nothing. The fun I had in the early days is gone. Since my time is rather scarce I resign, waiting for better times.

Just my 5 cents,

Regards,

xxxfragalotxxx :)

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How do you play nearly 500 hours and only have 700-850-500-600 tower stats? I've collected and upgraded two sets of gear with 1500 tower attack, one Squire which I gave to my brother, and one Apprentice which I kept, off of Endless Spires and Mistymire HC NM Campaign.

Are you upgrading your gear? Properly?

If you institute a kicking cap, you won't be making games available to all, you'll be removing existing games, because almost no one is going to host public nightmare games if they can't kick the floods of underleveled, undergeared players who want to be carried.

You DON'T need Misty Survival gear to beat the Spider Queen - it can be done with solidly Spires Campaign gear if you play well, or Misty Campaign gear if you are sloppy. The King of Djinn is easier than the Spider Queen.

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Don't touch my kick button. If I see twenty level zero's come in, and I kick them all. I suddenly lose my right? Then ANOTHER level 0 comes in! Now i'm screwed.
No, I'll kick you if I want.

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Again with the 'fix kick' bull****?

Someday you will be a endgame builder and then, you will understand why we kick some people.

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Soma. ive 6 chars with those stats. but neither is making progression. Tell me to get those stats without upgrading, im curious.
Youre right mana, but what if a lvl 74 enters with with gear below 1000? Probably youll kick him too.
@HKN: there is a button called private match. Use that instead kicking

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Soma. ive 6 chars with those stats. but neither is making progression. Tell me to get those stats without upgrading, im curious.
Youre right mana, but what if a lvl 74 enters with with gear below 1000? Probably youll kick him too.
@HKN: there is a button called private match. Use that instead kicking


You are a bit paranoid with the kicking thing. I never kicked anybody with gear like that and i think only a very very selected team will do it.

Maybe you focus too much just on the numbers of the stats. You have a decent resis? Decent pets like genie and guardians? Properly upgraded?

I dont know, but if you have that gear, its very unlikely that you will always be kicked from every room.

Also i create public games because i want to play with people, yes, PLAY, that word involve team work, common sense and not priorize looting more than everything else, until the point to do suicide runs into enrage auras to pick up stuff.

We kick griefers and people who clearly cant help and its just dead weight for everyone, capable of beign oneshooted by the weakest mob of a wave 14, thats why we kick useless people. also this kind of people ussualy understand 'play' as 'stay above the crystal 15 minuts until the wave end, then is time to loot and assign skill points, anyway, that guy will do everything for me..." that guy use to be ME.

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No one is kicking a decent player. But when a level 70-73 player joins your survival misty, he's just a burden. He will die in the beginning of the wave. I reached 1000 on tower dmg with the rest of stats being OK doing ES. When I open a public game labelled " 74+ & guardian", I mean I WANT A LVL 74 OR MORE WITH A GUARDIAN.

Another thing, and ppl seems oblivious to it, good resistance is very important, especially in Misty. Having below 30% resis is pathetic and no matter what your HP is, you'll die before you know it. So yeah, you'll get kicked and you deserve it if you want ppl to carry you. I never kick a guy with 500 HP and above 70% resistance because he can at least repair without getting killed.

About the spider queen, you can kill it duo with 1k stat in tower dmg and a barbarian with less than 1k hero dmg. I've done it this way. You just need to play harder.

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I guess the people reacting are highly geared so dont have any problems getting a game. But dont say to me, as a active and cooperating player, when I enter a game say nightmare MM with squire lvl 78 to finally get some decent loot to progress and get kicked 6 out of 6 times within 15 seconds there is no problem.

OK, the problem may be on my side not to paypal or mod.

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I guess the people reacting are highly geared so dont have any problems getting a game. But dont say to me, as a active and cooperating player, when I enter a game say nightmare MM with squire lvl 78 to finally get some decent loot to progress and get kicked 6 out of 6 times within 15 seconds there is no problem.

OK, the problem may be on my side not to paypal or mod.

May I ask what's your hero stats and your resistance? most end builders don't want a builder in the team. They want a high resistance guy with decent hero health to repair and do the occasional spider cleaning. If you meet these criteria, you'll get kicked for different reasons.

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You with this paypal nonsense you dont need to pay money for your items I got all my stuff on my own through farming and i can go through NMHC with out much problem (all solo), Just because your to lazy to farm don't make it suck for the people that earned there gear....

I have two stats around 1000 the rest are below...

This is a grinding game there's a lot of it, just something you have to get use to...

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Paypal nonsense? Excuse me but klick on "shoplist". I regular meet guys with 254^ fully upped with 90% resistance, having "spend" billions of mana without taking the time to rename properly.

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#2 is a particularly interesting idea. I agree it'd be great if it would move people that spam-kick to a Private game.

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It seems Trendy is more focused on keeping the people who are cheating rather than making a new fanbase simply because of the difficulty ramp that we've seen. It isn't fair in the slightest that people walking around with perfect gear are given an additional challenge when those of us with legit gear are now struggling to complete the NM levels we used to solo with ease.

When I finally reached 1k tower damage on my Squire, I finally felt like I was able to contribute to the top tier players and their games but with one single patch, Trendy destroyed that entire concept and widened the gap between legit players and players with hacked gear. Sure, someone may have found that 468 tower damage helmet, but to have a full set of Pristine gear with identical stats and a 40k damage Frost Sword to carry along?

Seriously Trendy, pull your head out of your ***!

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Again with the 'fix kick' bull****?

Someday you will be a endgame builder and then, you will understand why we kick some people.


at least tell the guy why you kicked him rather than instant kick.. its ridiculous... i have very high end game gear better than most and i get instantly kicked, no inspecting of my or my gear, no warning, no explination just kick and yet i got gear that would make a 4 man nightmare frosty boss (being done solo) cry

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hey, whoever makes the game reserves the right to kick whoever they want, NO QUESTIONS ASKED. If you dont like it, host a game of your own and then you can be the guy who takes on level 73s with 20% general res. I absolutely hate it when someone comes into my game expecting to be carried (whether I'm the builder or not), its absolutely sickening. And people who afk in the late waves of survival? I wish there was a button that did more than kick (maybe label you everytime you come into my game as the jackhole who made the game harder for me without contributing)

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hey, whoever makes the game reserves the right to kick whoever they want, NO QUESTIONS ASKED. If you dont like it, host a game of your own and then you can be the guy who takes on level 73s with 20% general res. I absolutely hate it when someone comes into my game expecting to be carried (whether I'm the builder or not), its absolutely sickening. And people who afk in the late waves of survival? I wish there was a button that did more than kick (maybe label you everytime you come into my game as the jackhole who made the game harder for me without contributing)


Yesterday i hosted a Oasis monster fest, and just a 74 countess (poor geared btw) joins. After saying hi (some people dont even bother saying hi at least), he ask "you mind if i go afk 5 minutes?" O.o

So... do you expecting to join a monster fest with pretty rubbish gear, unupgraded weapons (i would not kicked him just because of that) and then just go afk? During a monster fest? Instakick, no questions, no explanations, just gone.

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at least tell the guy why you kicked him rather than instant kick.. its ridiculous... i have very high end game gear better than most and i get instantly kicked, no inspecting of my or my gear, no warning, no explination just kick and yet i got gear that would make a 4 man nightmare frosty boss (being done solo) cry


Yes, because everyone has the luxury of stopping what they are doing to type out a polite reason within the 40 character limit TE gave us to type with.

1. Build phases are not always long enough to get everything you would like to have built.
2. Combat phase can be very busy, particularly if you are still trying to finish building.

If you've got gear good as good as you claim, you should already know this.

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Soma. ive 6 chars with those stats. but neither is making progression. Tell me to get those stats without upgrading, im curious.
Youre right mana, but what if a lvl 74 enters with with gear below 1000? Probably youll kick him too.
@HKN: there is a button called private match. Use that instead kicking


1) Where's the option for public match restricted to people of my progression level, or close to it?

2) Why on earth would you ignore upgrades? Armor from Spires can easily get 100 upgrades. If you average 80 max upgrades on your armor set, that's 410 stat points to play with. Weapons can easily get over 150 upgrades. That's 560 stat points you're disregarding. Gee... let me take the items from a stage, and subtract a third of their potential. OMG I CAN'T WIN NOW NO FAIR. You can farm mana anywhere from Deeper Wells Easy to the same levels you're farming your gear. It's not fast, but it's easy. Collecting the proper gear is meant to be time-consuming, if you aren't putting the time into it, you shouldn't expect to make it through NM.

3) Why do you need 6 characters? On one hand, I have four and I'm planning to make a couple more. On the other hand, I can afford to gear them up properly. If you can't even afford to get one builder adequately geared (which includes upgrades), why are you even contemplating trying six characters?

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The op (original poster) is getting kicked and doesn't understand why. Rather than bash him over his proposed solution, let's help him understand why and help him get over this totally fixable problem.

The host usually builds, so you need to be able to help in the following ways:
1) The most important thing is your armor resistances (you can upgrade these on your armor). You need high resistances to stay alive to repair. Prioritize armors with all 4 resistances and lots of upgrade levels. Also, get a set of the same myth type (chain, leather, mail, plate, or pristine) for 30% bonus. Do this even if you have to chose armors with crap stats in everything else. Upgrade generic resistance first and when you can't anymore, upgrade the other resistances. Every 10 levels, you'll be able to do generic again - do it. If you see it cap at 90% in Tavern, start a nightmare game, and stat yourself. You'll see that nightmare slashes your resistances by about 33% so don't stop upgrading unless you hit 90% in a nightmare game.
2) Get a genie pet (hall of court survival), use it get mana faster, and upgrade until everything is triple star max. It's fine even if it's just an insane level one.
3) Once everything is upgraded, switch to guardian. After any nightmare game, check Tavern for an uber apprentice or huntress guardian. Tavern charges 75 million mana for the good ones (you can lock it for later if you're lacking in funds) and 10 mana for the best ones (not a typo - the best ones are 10 mana!). You will often see people running Endless Spires to roll Tavern, and you can join those.

I learned this bit by bit from other people in-game. I wish more people would take the time to explain before a kick, esp. during survival build when there's no time limit. Even better if the game will explain.

And yes, I also think the loot progression is messed up. It shouldn't require a guide, and now it's even worse. I also have noticed it's significantly harder to find nightmare games now - I think the djinns have tipped the balances to where people find it un-fun and are taking a break from the game until it's fixed.

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My squire builder is ~800/900/700/800 and he can solo NMHC Glitter with absolutely no issues from Djinns or spiders.
No auras, no traps, no elem-towers. Nothing. Just RAW power from the squire towers.
The loot found in this place is pretty similar (maybe slightly less useful) than my current equipment. You also get 60m per run.

If your stats are similar to mine, and you can't do NM... then puzzle games are not for you.


That said and back on-topic, kicking is part of every single multiplayer game. Maybe the game you joined was waiting for a particular friend whose slot you just totally stole. Maybe he didn't like your pet. Maybe he didn't like your resistances.

Also, friends and whoever CANNOT join a Closed game, so it has to be Open for them to join. Good chances, you're just taking up a slot.
I just don't really understand your problem. Why not just host? If you can't do a map, then you shouldn't be joining other games on the same map. That is literally asking to be powerleveled.

I get kicked all the time, especially when I'm using my Boost Monk because people don't realize all of my stats went into the two abilities (and thus tower/hero stats are sub-par in comparison). 1.2k Tower/Hero boost abilities but only 200~500 in hero stats.

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Ugh. With the free weekend, I've spent all weekend kicking.
I'd ask the level 20s why they think it's ok to join a nightmare game, and they tell me they just hit "quick match".
Which you honestly can't blame them for. They want to test the game out. They want a quick match.
If they're not lying (I never used quick match, I don't know) it says more about the matchmaking than it does about the players.
And I only really have time to talk to the ones who don't arrive and just start hoovering loot or selling my defences to build their own.

Rather than the kicking, I'd like to at least be able to set restrictions on who can join my matches. Please god. No under-level-74s on my NM assaults.

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Thats the downfall to quickmatch. It just throws you into a game no matter the dificulty. Honestly the option should be removed till certain requirements are placed into the search method for it.

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After having read al this I've a little different view.
I'm glad I posted this.
I still think the kicking restricts the progress of serious players.
The tower build char lvl 74 with low end myth gear is not interested in investing huge amounts of mana in resistance.
But in order to get high end gear to host his own NM games it seems he has to.
Getting 70%+ res will easily chew up 50% of his upgrade levels.
The -very costly 50%- left will leave him a very weak tower char, still unable to finish a level to get interesting myth gear.
This creates a loop few can escape. But not without help.
Since this is a coop game you need the help of others.
Every player has gotten his share of that in order to progress.
Too few return the favour.
I don't mean leveling someone in half an hour from lvl 0 to 70 in glitter, which is broken too.
But thats another issue :)
And I don't mean letting a lvl 20 finish a NM MM game.

I too often see the word "kick" in the public server list.
This means simply: you get kicked, no matter what.

Viable reasons to kick in my opinion:
- flaming
- ninja looting
- idling
- too low char (maybe too high too)
Many of these reasons can be automated, as you all know.

Ninja kickers too. They, like I said, should be moved to private.
Their friends on steam still can easily join their private game.

Hosts should be given an acceptance option before hosting a server. This should based on char level, not the gear. Then finally char progress is more fluid. The char with lowend gear finally can play to get his highend gear he needs to progress.

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You still don't seem to understand. Character level is NOT the primary indicator of how useful a player will be. The first most important consideration is player skill, an attribute which the game is incapable of accurately measuring. The second most important consideration is your character's stats. Resistances, HP, and Attack on heroes, some mix of tower stats on builders.

You're not making public games more accessible, you're limiting public games to games in which the host wants to carry lower players. For instance, I've hosted several Spires NM HC Campaign runs in which I take any players, any level, so long as they aren't griefing. There's a lot of people who do this. But when a host wants good players only, he's doing it because he CAN'T carry poorly geared players. If you force him to play with whoever joins, he really only has two choices:

1) Play alone.
2) Play a private game and recruit from these forums or other forums.

If any of your proposed changes to the kicking system are implemented, you won't be making games available to people with lower gear, you will be making games UNAVAILABLE to people with suitable gear. Is that really the effect you want?

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