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@beta team and their critics.


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I removed this post from another thread after catching a glimpse of one of the mods insisting we stay on topic.

[quote]Before I say anything, I will let it be known that I only read the first page and part of the second page (up to Finally's post) and am not seeking to insult or bash anyone.

Firstly, I'd like to say that the beta team should not be so high and mighty that they can not be criticized without without repercussions. On that note, criticizing does not include being called fanboys, yes men, or indicating they should be trashed. Criticism should be constructive.

Secondly, with the release of this patch and numerous flaws in not just texture mapping but gameplay difficulty ramp would not have been missed with more thorough testing procedures. I have no way of knowing who is at fault, not being on the team, I do not know what content was actually tested by them or some other internal quality control (some companies do not let beta teams see everything, especially in the event the beta team is comprised of players from the game itself).

Things that would help improve testing would be:
-Thorough map walk-arounds. Such would be possible with a non-timed build mode enabled strictly for testing.
-Difficulty checks done with gear obtainable at level. The spider queen was difficult enough to nearly require misty survival gear before ever killing her. Now it seems impossible to get to her with obtainable gear.
-Obtainable gear means gear through campaign only. The game's story has a linear progression that is not meant to include farming a map over and over after beating it to see the next part of the story. The original maps on easy-insane did this quite well. Nightmare had some maps easier than others, but you could still work through it with obtained gear and a bit of know-how.

Do not take this post as bashing anyone, it is meant to be constructive, not destructive.[/quote]

Edit 1: This should probably be moved to suggestions.

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Since you removed your post, I'll put my response here.

[QUOTE]Firstly, I'd like to say that the beta team should not be so high and mighty that they can not be criticized without without repercussions. On that note, criticizing does not include being called fanboys, yes men, or indicating they should be trashed. Criticism should be constructive.[/QUOTE]There's a difference between criticizing and being just plain rude, which is what the issue was. In no way was it meant to say that you can't be critical of the moderators, beta testers, or Trendy, but to say that you should be CIVIL when doing so.

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You can play survival games from previous campaign completions to make the boss fights easier.


I am aware of this, but making them easier is one thing, making them doable is something else entirely. The best I was getting was up to wave 20 magus quarter NMHC. The problem with getting further was the wyverns being too many for harpoons to deal with. I was hoping leading would fix this, but now I've got a new problem, djinns with too much health de-summoning walls. Due to the fact that djinn beams do not scale with any player stat, I will assume the further people progress the more impossible it will be to defeat them. I feel that THP should scale the beam's duration, maybe it does a certain amount of HP damage a tick (that isnt shown to the players) until the tower/wall gets vaporized.

But that is an argument for another thread.

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AHHH That thread is reproducing. Make it stop.

Btw From Hitchmon

I can't truthfully speak for the dev team, but I think you guys are getting a glimpse as to why, I believe, we've released Nightmare mode as a beta. We're introducing enemies that are changing the dynamics of how you play Dungeon Defenders, and we're incorporating player feedback to help improve the difficulty so that when it leaves beta, it will hopefully be a polished experience from the beginning. (Remember, not everyone bought the Complete Shards DLC.)


Therefore if you play nightmare you are the beta tester. So if someone attacks the beta team your essentially making fun of yourself.

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Telling us we are beta testers really doesn't bring any substance to this thread. It actually works against what is being discussed, as we are talking about the testers who tested the update, not everyone playing nightmare.

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What Trendy needs to do is every time they add more gear and then balance new content around it, is knock down what wave gear drops on in old content. What gear used to drop at Wave 10 now drops at Wave 5, Wave 15 at 10, etc.

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Telling us we are beta testers really doesn't bring any substance to this thread. It actually works against what is being discussed, as we are talking about the testers who tested the update, not everyone playing nightmare.


I agree that it doesn't bring that much substance to this thread as your criticism was good and well thought out with good suggestions. However realize that as long as nightmare has the "Beta" name applied to it we are all essentially beta testers and therefor Trendy can happily release a map that has issues, minor or major and we have no real right to demand these issues be fixed any time soon or to complain about them. Our job as Beta testers is to report the issues.

Your testing steps are valid but you are making the assumption they are not already doing them which may be wrong. Your also making the assumption the beta team did not find the issues above and Trendy released anyways because it is a beta product they are releasing, not a full release. Real software testing involves testing every possible scenario hundreds of times, it's tedious and boring enough to poke your eyes out regardless of the product your testing. Trendy does not have the budget for this, nor do they have a paid beta test team from what I understand so they get by with what they can.

If someone does not like being a beta tester for nightmare mode then do not play it. Trendy has stated this many times. This also goes for those complaining about multiple hotfixes. That is what happens in a beta environment.

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I am aware that it is a beta environment, which is why I added suggestions not complaints.

But you are making it sound like it should be ok to release untested-though-said-to-be-tested content which we have already paid real money for. The only thing I'm asking for in this thread is standards. Not to set the bar too high, but to set a bar if you are going to have a beta team.

Please refrain from trying to justify the released content with the excuse of it being beta. It was said to be tested in a closed environment before it came to us.

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IMHO, I think everyone who bought the entire shard pack should be allowed to get the patch 1-2 days in advance than everyone else who didn't, in order to allow a "broader" feedback.

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