Developers Fail (A.k.a the beta testing team is a lie)

I'm not making threats, it will happen. Rules are to be followed. I'll show you what I mean. See the bolder points below;




The bolder points just simply aren't necessary. Do I agree that mistakes should not be made? Yes. Are the beta team human? Yes. Instead of game breaking bugs, they *maybe* let this slip.

I'm not trying to discourage debate, I'm trying to facilitate adult debate. Adults don't need to bully, or insult others to get their point accross. Call me crazy, but I just can't respect someone who results to insults, when they could be far more mature about the situation. I'm not trying to offend you, so if I have, I apologise.

I guess the reason why people get so heated about this game is because they love it, so why can't they show a little more love in their complaints. We all know you attract more flies with honey than with vinegar.

They are simply statements of opinion. Im sorry they hurt the egos of you and or your beta team friends. To me, the testing done seem to be a joke. A major crash and the inability to kill the boss on NM made it through the testing process, this is the kind of thing that happened in previous patches. We were told that a NEW beta team was being formed to ensure proper testing, this new team provided the same results. I also suggest getting rid of them and forming a new team with formal (as in paid real world) beta testing experience, maybe even hire a few professional testers to supplement the community team. I will agree that "fanboy" while possibly accurate could have been replaced or removed. However, the rest of my statements are my opinions on the quality of the team, and im not one to blunt my words to protect feelings, i find full on harsh honesty gets through to people better.

Now as for your reaction to all this. While I cannot speak for your intentions in this thread, i can speak for how you seem to be coming off to the community, and its not good. Your reaction makes trendy look bad, as your words despite being a volunteer, do represent trendy to some degree. Please, feel free to infract me, ban me, spank me for all i care (please?). You may not like how its being brought up by some but the community obviously has questions regarding promises (better testing) that were made. I have a feeling until some form of official reply comes out, youll see alot of these threads.

I would like to note that a bad cook (complaining of all the game files) can cause glitches between beta testing and release as they are techinally different builds. This could be something as simple as their PC glitching while throwing all the files together. Its a simple fix and means nothing on what the beta team is doing IMO...

What ever the cause, this(and of course the many, many other faulty patches) marks TE as a company that breaks promises and cant release complete content, which alone doesnt stand as a reason not to throw your money at TE but, with the **** ton of glitches, bugs, imbalances, quickfixes, ninja nerfs and delayed content all added up, it just doesnt make them look good as a company, which is why i (and a large majority) do not play DD as often as i used to.

You can easily come off as a helpful productive member by pointing out any flaws without attacking your fellow players. This thread could be helpful if it weren't for the snide remarks. They insult the guys who without them, the patch could have been delayed a lot longer or been released with a lot more problems.

Discouraging them over pointing out any problems you find is the problem.

I would like to note that a bad cook (complaining of all the game files) can cause glitches between beta testing and release as they are techinally different builds. This could be something as simple as their PC glitching while throwing all the files together. Its a simple fix and means nothing on what the beta team is doing IMO...

If it is a simple fix then we should see a (third) hot fix soon, and a post from staff saying, "Whoops! Sorry guys. Finally was right and the computer glitched, but after we compiled the code again, the texture was back. Sorry about that." Simple fix and a simple explanation and apology would go a long way right now.

They are simply statements of opinion. Im sorry they hurt they egos of you and or your beta team. To me, the testing done seems to be a joke. A major crash and the inability to kill the boss on NM made it through the testing process, this is the kind of thing that happened in previous patches. We were told that a NEW beta team was being formed to ensure proper testing, this new team provided the same results. I also suggest getting rid of them and forming a new team with formal (as in paid real world) beta testing experience, maybe even hire a few professional testers to supplement the community team. I will agree that "fanboy" while possibly accurate could have been replaced or removed. However, the rest of my statements are my opinions on the quality of the team, and im not one to blunt my words to protect feelings, i find full on harsh honesty gets through to people better.

Now as for your reaction to all this. While I cannot speak for your intentions in this thread, i can speak for how you seem to be coming off to the community, and its not good. Your reaction makes trendy look bad, as your words despite being a volunteer, do represent trendy to some degree. Please, feel free to infract me, ban me, spank me for all i care (please?). You may not like how its being brought up by some but the community obviously has questions regarding promises (better testing) that were made. I have a feeling until some form of official reply comes out, youll see alot of these threads.

To be honest I don't care what anyone's opinion is. You are all entitled to them, and it's good to hear them *sometimes*. But...

As I am the moderator here, and my job is to keep this in line, I have an obligation to "educate".

All the bolded points were flaming and insulting. Just have a quick read of the rules. I certainly wouldn't want people talking to me like that, so if you are a "sucker for punishment" (not sure if you are familiar with that analogy) and like to be talked to like you are some pathetic person, that's great, leave it in your personal life.

I have no intentions of closing this thread or banning anyone at the moment. It provides valuable, but insulting, feedback. I think people are missing my point, so I'll make it clear.


Feedback = good

Insults = bad

OK, seeing this thread, I decided to join the forums. After reading through this thread, I don't feel as if anyone was necessarily completely out of bounds here. I was out yesterday running errands and such, and when I got home and saw the update, I must say that I was pleasantly excited, and so were a few people I play with. We tried the new mission on hard, which seemed to work fine, so then we decided to try some more things. Please keep in mind that we are not fully end-game players (we have mid-level mythical gear), and it has made nightmare completely IMPOSSIBLE for us (we failed on first wave of Glitter NM, a mission we used to be able to get close to beating), so obviously something was done wrong here.
That is not to mention the large amount of crashes, etc. that required two hotfixes. Keep in mind that they said it would be released on March 15th, if I recall correctly, but they also said back in December that the goal was one Eternia Shards DLC every month, not every 3 months. I honestly love Dungeon Defenders, but on par with what most people are saying here, there is enough stuff that broke or became impossible with this update that it is necessary to question Trendy/the beta testing team/someone in regards to what could POSSIBLY cause so many game breaking bugs and issues to occur.

Keep in mind that they said it would be released on March 15th, if I recall correctly, but they also said back in December that the goal was one Eternia Shards DLC every month, not every 3 months. I honestly love Dungeon Defenders, but on par with what most people are saying here, there is enough stuff that broke or became impossible with this update that it is necessary to question Trendy/the beta testing team/someone in regards to what could POSSIBLY cause so many game breaking bugs and issues to occur.

THIS. I have been following this game since the game was a project. It was better then than now

OK, seeing this thread, I decided to join the forums. After reading through this thread, I don't feel as if anyone was necessarily completely out of bounds here. I was out yesterday running errands and such, and when I got home and saw the update, I must say that I was pleasantly excited, and so were a few people I play with. We tried the new mission on hard, which seemed to work fine, so then we decided to try some more things. Please keep in mind that we are not fully end-game players (we have mid-level mythical gear), and it has made nightmare completely IMPOSSIBLE for us (we failed on first wave of Glitter NM, a mission we used to be able to get close to beating), so obviously something was done wrong here.
That is not to mention the large amount of crashes, etc. that required two hotfixes. Keep in mind that they said it would be released on March 15th, if I recall correctly, but they also said back in December that the goal was one Eternia Shards DLC every month, not every 3 months. I honestly love Dungeon Defenders, but on par with what most people are saying here, there is enough stuff that broke or became impossible with this update that it is necessary to question Trendy/the beta testing team/someone in regards to what could POSSIBLY cause so many game breaking bugs and issues to occur.

quoted for truth

I would like to note that a bad cook (complaining of all the game files) can cause glitches between beta testing and release as they are techinally different builds. This could be something as simple as their PC glitching while throwing all the files together. Its a simple fix and means nothing on what the beta team is doing IMO...

This it probably the reason, it makes sense.
Actually the shape of the brush seems like a blocking volume, accidentally added as BSP geometry, a blocking volume does not need material because its invisible to player.

*read your PM's. Just because it's not insulting doesn't mean it doesn't violate other rules* -classic

The best you can do in this situation is stop supporting Trendy with your money. You have no recourse as a consumer. Trendy will not admonish it's moderators and your credit card company can not protect you against shoddy products since Valve will lock you out of your account if you take action against the games/developers on their Steam infrastructure.

This it probably the reason, it makes sense.
Actually the shape of the brush seems like a blocking volume, accidentally added as BSP geometry, a blocking volume does not need material because its invisible to player.

In all honesty I think this is it... I've talked to the beta lead and known him for a while and I have a hard time.believing he didn't see this... he's very tedious ;)

Finally please, could you say me where am I insulting someone? Can you please explain to me why do you keep deleting my posts?

Finally please, could you say me where am I insulting someone? Can you please explain to me why do you keep deleting my posts?

Isn't it enoug polite for you? So many please in my posts but not a single one response. Great job

Read your PMs

The best you can do in this situation is stop supporting Trendy with your money. You have no recourse as a consumer. Trendy will not admonish it's moderators and your credit card company can not protect you against shoddy products since Valve will lock you out of your account if you take action against the games/developers on their Steam infrastructure.

I already planned to stop buying any paid DLC going forward, at least until we see some improvement in release quality.

I dont know if it would work but i know steam gives refunds for "pre ordered" games. If it came down to it you could contact support and tell them that trendy isnt delivering the product as promised and ask for a refund on the rest of the pack. I donno if it would work but would be a last resort i guess.

The best you can do in this situation is stop supporting Trendy with your money. You have no recourse as a consumer. Trendy will not admonish it's moderators and your credit card company can not protect you against shoddy products since Valve will lock you out of your account if you take action against the games/developers on their Steam infrastructure.

And this...

But the thing is Trendy has my money already and I feel bad for this because I feel like someone cheated on me.

I really want to see my steam's library without this game on it. I hope to find a way to do so

And this...

But the thing is Trendy has my money already and I feel bad for this because I feel like someone cheated on me.

I really want to see my steam's library without this game on it. I hope to find a way to do so

May I ask, how many hours of gameplay you have? And have you enjoyed the game ever?

Snide comments galore, mods getting offended, nothing is on topic anymore. Obviously I'd like it if everyone would stop the fighting, but I doubt that will happen, so I'm instead going to try to make a list of questions we'd like answered by Trendy on the off-chance they decide to read this far in and want to answer their community.

1. How did this rather large, but not game breaking bug make it past the bug testers?
2. How did all the large game breaking bugs make it past?
3. How exactly do the beta testers test the game?
4. Are the majority of beta testers end-game, or are there testers from a variety of points of loot progression in the game?

Obviously there are a lot more questions that we'd like to have answered, but I think that about sums up this topic, hopefully in a slightly more palatable way. If someone from Trendy, or someone who can contact Trendy, would answer these, I think we'd all be a lot happier.

This it probably the reason, it makes sense.
Actually the shape of the brush seems like a blocking volume, accidentally added as BSP geometry, a blocking volume does not need material because its invisible to player.

+1
You can actually see something poking through it too, so there are objects behind it.

The problem is that many of us preordered this pack. I don't feel like I should have to ask for a refund on prepurchased DLCs, it is in no way my fault (nor anything that we could have foreseen) that Trendy would continually break the game with updates. I still enjoy the mechanic of the game, especially the co-op factor, Orcs Must Die! is a pleasant alternative, but with lack of multiplayer (and lack in terms of content) makes Dungeon Defenders take the top in this type of game in my book. I enjoy the challenge offered, but as soon as they went end-game, it just seems to have taken a massive turn for the worse. I only started playing the game really once the first Eternia Shard DLC was released, and even then I noticed a slight problem in terms of soloability of the game (I play on a tower app build, and my towers are not enough to help me solo the game? Really?), so I don't know what's going on here, I just hope that they can actually fix it at some point, and not make it continually worse.

May I ask, how many hours of gameplay you have? And have you enjoyed the game ever?

Of course mate. I have played like 400 hours? I obliged my friends to buy the game the first day it was released. I have enjoyed it a lot. But then a patch. 1 thing fix 4 screwed. Next patch the same, and the same, and the same...

Disconnections, Lag if you were using a OP apprentice.. So many chances, so many frustations. and now this patch and the same again...

It's completely legit to feel like a feel because I gave money for a thing I thought was good. And now I can not play the game until is fixed or whatever... again.

Snide comments galore, mods getting offended, nothing is on topic anymore. Obviously I'd like it if everyone would stop the fighting, but I doubt that will happen, so I'm instead going to try to make a list of questions we'd like answered by Trendy on the off-chance they decide to read this far in and want to answer their community.

1. How did this rather large, but not game breaking bug make it past the bug testers?
2. How did all the large game breaking bugs make it past?
3. How exactly do the beta testers test the game?
4. Are the majority of beta testers end-game, or are there testers from a variety of points of loot progression in the game?

Obviously there are a lot more questions that we'd like to have answered, but I think that about sums up this topic, hopefully in a slightly more palatable way. If someone from Trendy, or someone who can contact Trendy, would answer these, I think we'd all be a lot happier.

Great post, I hope it gets answered. I'm certainly not offended by anything said on this thread though.

Of course mate. I have played like 400 hours? I obliged my friends to buy the game the first day it was released. I have enjoyed it a lot. But then a patch. 1 thing fix 4 screwed. Next patch the same, and the same, and the same...

Disconnections, Lag if you were using a OP apprentice.. So many chances, so many frustations. and now this patch and the same again...

It's completely legit to feel like a feel because I gave money for a thing I thought was good. And now I can not play the game until is fixed or whatever... again.

I feel sorry you feel that way. I hope your opinion can be changed soon :)

Snide comments galore, mods getting offended, nothing is on topic anymore. Obviously I'd like it if everyone would stop the fighting, but I doubt that will happen, so I'm instead going to try to make a list of questions we'd like answered by Trendy on the off-chance they decide to read this far in and want to answer their community.

1. How did this rather large, but not game breaking bug make it past the bug testers?
2. How did all the large game breaking bugs make it past?
3. How exactly do the beta testers test the game?
4. Are the majority of beta testers end-game, or are there testers from a variety of points of loot progression in the game?

Obviously there are a lot more questions that we'd like to have answered, but I think that about sums up this topic, hopefully in a slightly more palatable way. If someone from Trendy, or someone who can contact Trendy, would answer these, I think we'd all be a lot happier.

To add to this list of questions, we have to ask if they had plans for the game to be playable without the Defenders Store, or if they wanted to REQUIRE the Defenders Store in order to get gear progression for this game, which in turn raises the question of why they would have such a low mana cap (and have mana collection be so difficult on any difficulty except for NM) if they were planning on such a thing.

May I ask, how many hours of gameplay you have? And have you enjoyed the game ever?

I may regret this but this excuse is just really, REALLY irritating to me. In no way does hours of gameplay and past enjoyment excuse a lack of quality in a new patch. Absolutely not. It should however encourage players to be more patient about non-game-breaking glitches, like this one.
The new players though, like the ones who bought the game in the past week, or will buy it during the upcoming sale, or will simply play it during the free weekend, what excuse do they get? They get an excuse to not buy the game. Simple as that. Hopefully Trendy will get this patched before the sale starts, so the only way the new players will ever know this happened is by reading this thread. I want there to be new players because I want there to be a reason for the game to continue being improved, other than mistakes and accidents made in the past.

To be clear though, my issue with that excuse is not tied to this one thread but the overall use of it across the forum.

It's difficult to knock them for the Defenders Store since that came about because players demanded it.

While players may have demanded it, at least some, it shouldn't have become such a pivotal part of the game. The Defenders Store should be an auxiliary for those who don't want to invest the time myth farming/ mana farming for upgrades, not as a mechanic designed to be NECESSARY in order to achieve gear progression, which at this point it is. In no way should something that is not actually a game mechanic, rather something that was added into the game and is used OUTSIDE the game itself (it opens in the steam browser if you try to look at the online store) be a REQUIREMENT to play a game.

It's interesting to me the anger that is being directed at the beta testers. I think we need to review the facts before we really hammer the beta team to the wall (i'm not disagreeing).

1) The beta team is a volunteer community, as in unpaid.
2) The beta team leader has posted multiple times this team would have "strict hourly and testing requirements." (How do you hold someone accountable that isn't paid to this type of ruleset?)
3) The PC Beta team was full immediately, then it was empty shortly thereafter, indicated some or most didn't show up, or didn't test to standards or didn't feel their testing was contributing.
4) Trendy was under a lot of pressure to get the patch out ASAP because of the massive delay.
5) Generally when testing you fix the major issues before the minor issues. The issues pointed out to me seem relatively minor (except for djinns but that is a design issue, not a bug).

All in All 7.20 does seem to be a pretty stable release, i'm not saying that I actually love this release, i really hate Djinns and I think the design is faulty and seems to me that they couldn't decide a direction to go. However, I could get in and play the game, the maps i used to play successfully have Djinns, the new map seems to work (I didn't make it to the boss originally so I didn't see the infinity health issue).