Jump to content

Trendy, I am almost done with your game


Recommended Posts

To be clear, my posts about solo play are not because I prefer to play that way or think it should be played that way but because unless you can absolutely guarantee the person(s) you're playing with is not hacking or using bought gear or hasn't already played past the point you are currently testing, you can't reliably test whether progression is or is not broken.
Nightmare is a testbed. That's all it is right now. Players need to understand that and treat it accordingly.
I haven't seen that made clear anywhere in-game, really should be if it is.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 117
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

I would like to commend everyone for keeping this thread civil :) My personal thoughts about Dijins and Shards 2 will wait for another time. I will however, remind everyone that Nightmare is technically in Beta, though nobody treats it as such. Nightmare Mode will be 'fully realized' when all 4 Shards have been released, with enemies/mechanics/loot balanced around each other.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
well, i dont see a problem so far... and well, its not as much life as an ogre... but it has some life, in NM HC ES - Ogre: 2mil, Djinn 500k... personally i dont see a problem if you got a single app guard, they are also quite easy to spot on the map..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Nightmare is technically in Beta


Simply, because of the endless claims of people being 'done.' I wish Trendy would just disable nightmare mode until it's finished. That way, people would have the chance to actually farm the proper godly gear from survival modes, instead of hopping right into 'entry level' Mythical and getting stuck.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Simply, because of people claiming to be 'done.'

I wish Trendy would just disable nightmare mode until it's finished.

Alternatively, since Hardware's point about it not being apparent in-game is well taken, Trendy could splash a Beta tag across the difficulty selector. I don't know how much it would help but it would at least clarify for those who notice and care that's it's still under development.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
If they disable nightmare, noone plays. If they leave it this way then people complain and they tweak.

There are less spiders with these djinns in the game right? I think people should chill and just work on strategies for a week instead of coming to the forums in less than 12 hours and complaining.

It's new, it requires new thought, deal with it. If something is glitchy then come report it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
To be clear, my posts about solo play are not because I prefer to play that way or think it should be played that way but because unless you can absolutely guarantee the person(s) you're playing with is not hacking or using bought gear or hasn't already played past the point you are currently testing, you can't reliably test whether progression is or is not broken.

Nightmare is a testbed. That's all it is right now. Players need to understand that and treat it accordingly.


Well, I'll give it more time before I quit, that's for sure, but I'm primarily a solo player who occasionally plays with one or two friends, has never bought weapons from another shop and will never hack anything. I have mainly been using app/monk builds, and, while grueling, was so happy to finally be able to solo ES NM and then MM up to the boss. It feels like a loooong grind because while I'm making tons of mana, I'm only occasionally finding better gear. But I was having fun.

Now I can't get past ES NM campaign. I'm trying different setups, but as soon as my Anti Air towers start shooting they duck way down or back up and fly around and remove my auras. And instead of upgrading and building new towers I'm concentrating everything I've got on killing the Djinn, and I'm not particlarly enjoying this new "challenge."

But I'll give it more time and thought and play with different configurations. As of now, however, I find the Djinn a real chore, and am not enjoying it as I've enjoyed the challenge the game offered up til now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Disabling nightmare at this point would be game suicide. Veterans would stop playing a d rightfully so, you can't take it away at this point without guaranteeing it's demise.

Frankly, before today I was unaware that Nightmare was considered a 'beta' difficulty. I have read and heard references to the beta team but did not put 2&2 together. I guess that makes me feel a little bit better but I still would like to see an ability to turn djinn off to help with the step between Insane and Nightmare. That's just me though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
You're having problems with NM ES Campaign? I cleared it on HC on my first try with my app builder. My tower stats are around 850 / 1500 / 700 / 1000, nothing special really. I could probably clear it with my old set which had about 1100 tower attack (which I found in Endless Spires originally).

The Djinni aren't that bad if you position your towers well. Also, NM ES is meant to be harder, notice Ogres now start spawning on wave 1.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
You're having problems with NM ES Campaign? I cleared it on HC on my first try with my app builder. My tower stats are around 850 / 1500 / 700 / 1000, nothing special really. I could probably clear it with my old set which had about 1100 tower attack (which I found in Endless Spires originally).

The Djinni aren't that bad if you position your towers well. Also, NM ES is meant to be harder, notice Ogres now start spawning on wave 1.


Hey Soma (Ultrarilo here), yeah, I'm having problem doing it solo. Cleared it with Trog last night, after a couple attempts. Sadly, for me, your tower stats actually ARE something special. I'm around 800/900/500/700 or so, so am still grinding my way to better gear/upgrades, which is a bit harder to do now. But I'll keep trying. Maybe you can show me your build next time we play. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Simply, because of the endless claims of people being 'done.' I wish Trendy would just disable nightmare mode until it's finished. That way, people would have the chance to actually farm the proper godly gear from survival modes, instead of hopping right into 'entry level' Mythical and getting stuck.


I can't truthfully speak for the dev team, but I think you guys are getting a glimpse as to why, I believe, we've released Nightmare mode as a beta. We're introducing enemies that are changing the dynamics of how you play Dungeon Defenders, and we're incorporating player feedback to help improve the difficulty so that when it leaves beta, it will hopefully be a polished experience from the beginning. (Remember, not everyone bought the Complete Shards DLC.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
You're having problems with NM ES Campaign? I cleared it on HC on my first try with my app builder. My tower stats are around 850 / 1500 / 700 / 1000, nothing special really. I could probably clear it with my old set which had about 1100 tower attack (which I found in Endless Spires originally).

The Djinni aren't that bad if you position your towers well. Also, NM ES is meant to be harder, notice Ogres now start spawning on wave 1.


Sorry, but those stats aren't average. They are well above average. Average gear will only have stats in the 700-800 range. Anything with stats of 200+ per item will have surely come from wave 18+. How do I know? Because my tower countess has something like 8xx / 9xx / 4xx / 5xx and all that gear came from survival from wave 16 and below to get it all. Now if I also farm lots of mana, those stats will go up because of spending mana to up the points. That is way too time consuming for a casual player to get 1 piece of armor to max upgrades without constantly farming ( or selling ) to get that mana.

I would suggest that new players either hope they get into a super geared run to get better gear or just spend months farming mana for it. Because it's not happening in any short amount of time.

Edit: I tried NM ES HC last night, 3 other players joined my game, we got 2 Ogres and 4 Djinn or 4 Ogres and 2 Djinn first wave.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Let me explain a little something. I'm not against djinn, nor am I against the spiders. what I'm saying is in their current state they're too strong. Djinn can't be interrupted, which means players must have super epic amazing damage to kill them before they destroy anything. Also, you have no way to resist or reduce web duration, which I personally feel needs to be reduced or be able to break free sooner.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Yeah, those stats are like triple mine, Soma, though my char(s) are just now trying to make the Insane -> Nightmare jump. I have a feeling this update is going to send them back quite a ways, though. :kobold:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I can't truthfully speak for the dev team, but I think you guys are getting a glimpse as to why, I believe, we've released Nightmare mode as a beta. We're introducing enemies that are changing the dynamics of how you play Dungeon Defenders, and we're incorporating player feedback to help improve the difficulty so that when it leaves beta, it will hopefully be a polished experience from the beginning. (Remember, not everyone bought the Complete Shards DLC.)


Please don't take my initial post the wrong way.

Personally, I love being able to beta test and provide feedback. It's just painful to read posts, where people believe that the changes and any new additions to the difficulty are set in stone.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[QUOTE]Djinn can't be interrupted, [/QUOTE]They can be interrupted. You just need to attack them with hero attacks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Spiders I can deal with. Once you figured out where they dropped and set up your base right, either a bumper or a defense that was in it's path would take care of them. Like in Hall of Court, the spiders that spawn on the first red carpet just above the steps that go to the grassy area, I set my bowling balls to roll over them as they landed. Stuff like that. I don't have a problem with the Djinn buffing the other mobs/creeps. I do have a problem with multiple Ogres + Djinn in the first wave. Because I can't set up everything in that amount of time and then have to worry about the defenses dropping.

So I have come to the conclusion that Nightmare mode is not for solo play unless you have godly armor stats that can kill anything within seconds.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sorry, but those stats aren't average. They are well above average. Average gear will only have stats in the 700-800 range. Anything with stats of 200+ per item will have surely come from wave 18+. How do I know? Because my tower countess has something like 8xx / 9xx / 4xx / 5xx and all that gear came from survival from wave 16 and below to get it all. Now if I also farm lots of mana, those stats will go up because of spending mana to up the points. That is way too time consuming for a casual player to get 1 piece of armor to max upgrades without constantly farming ( or selling ) to get that mana.

I would suggest that new players either hope they get into a super geared run to get better gear or just spend months farming mana for it. Because it's not happening in any short amount of time.

Edit: I tried NM ES HC last night, 3 other players joined my game, we got 2 Ogres and 4 Djinn or 4 Ogres and 2 Djinn first wave.


K so I started typing a response then I noticed what you said about upgrades. First of all, all my gear is fully upgraded. You're right, it's time consuming to max upgrades. But that's the whole design of NM - you farm for some good pieces, then you farm for mana to upgrade them. Then you move on to the next "level", farm some new good pieces, then you farm some more mana. The design isn't meant to be friendly to casual players.

Also, your stats still seem kind of low. My Aura Monk has armor that's entirely un-upgraded. All his armor came from Endless Spires and Mistymire Forest on Campaign, Nightmare Hardcore, except for his pet and weapon. He's already hitting 900 / 700 / 700 / 900. With a tower stat guardian and mediocre weapon from Endless Spires, he can easily add 100 to every stat, bringing that to 1000 / 800 / 800 / 1000 (my actual stats are higher since a friend gave my a misty weapon and I got a decent tower pet from the shop after joining a public UMF2).

Every piece of gear is level 1, and none of them are 1/1s with spectacular stats either. Together I have about 300 upgrades to work with still, which yields another 390 stat points. So this random set I scrapped together for an aura monk can hit 1400 HP... and you think 1500 tower attack takes Misty Surv past wave 15? This isn't even a good set I collected, it's a set of rejects that I found while searching for the two tower sets for my app and my brother's apprentice.

Yes, you're going to need to upgrade your armor a lot to move on. Honestly, you don't need 1500 tower attack. Realize that I'm still using my pre-7.2 build with two random FBs added instead of snares - with a solid build and a good team, I would expect you to be able to clear it with 1200 tower attack. Maybe less if you use a Squire builder, since even with LT and MM buff, App towers are weak against Ogres.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
They can be interrupted. You just need to attack them with hero attacks.


Scenario then, happened last night.

Djinn are trying to take out a bouncer. But they do it a distance in front. My harpoons are busy trying to kill the mobs that are closer to the Djinn so they never get hit. I am a countess so I can't really throw my swords at them. So I am supposed to do what exactly? Switch to a Huntress / Ranger at the start of the first wave and forgo building new towers the first wave after I've run out of mana building them before it starts? Because let's be honest, a geared ranged Huntress / Ranger will kill them faster than an Apprentice will.

The above scenario happened last night. Lost a wall because there was nothing I could do to stop the Djinn because I was busy repairing, building, and upgrading and have no ranged attack to interrupt. Harpoons don't have target priority to attack the Djinn instead of the advancing goblins.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[QUOTE]I am a countess so I can't really throw my swords at them. So I am supposed to do what exactly? [/QUOTE]Jump at them. I do it all the time. I had no trouble dealing with them unless they were hovering over a bottomless pit. They have to get pretty close though, so it's not usually an issue for me.

They're air units, just like Wyverns are. Of course shooting classes are going to be better at it, but a squire can still do it if push comes to shove.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
K so I started typing a response then I noticed what you said about upgrades. First of all, all my gear is fully upgraded. You're right, it's time consuming to max upgrades. But that's the whole design of NM - you farm for some good pieces, then you farm for mana to upgrade them. Then you move on to the next "level", farm some new good pieces, then you farm some more mana. The design isn't meant to be friendly to casual players.

Also, your stats still seem kind of low. My Aura Monk has armor that's entirely un-upgraded. All his armor came from Endless Spires and Mistymire Forest on Campaign, Nightmare Hardcore, except for his pet and weapon. He's already hitting 900 / 700 / 700 / 900. With a tower stat guardian and mediocre weapon from Endless Spires, he can easily add 100 to every stat, bringing that to 1000 / 800 / 800 / 1000 (my actual stats are higher since a friend gave my a misty weapon and I got a decent tower pet from the shop after joining a public UMF2).

Every piece of gear is level 1, and none of them are 1/1s with spectacular stats either. Together I have about 300 upgrades to work with still, which yields another 390 stat points. So this random set I scrapped together for an aura monk can hit 1400 HP... and you think 1500 tower attack takes Misty Surv past wave 15? This isn't even a good set I collected, it's a set of rejects that I found while searching for the two tower sets for my app and my brother's apprentice.

Yes, you're going to need to upgrade your armor a lot to move on. Honestly, you don't need 1500 tower attack. Realize that I'm still using my pre-7.2 build with two random FBs added instead of snares - with a solid build and a good team, I would expect you to be able to clear it with 1200 tower attack. Maybe less if you use a Squire builder, since even with LT and MM buff, App towers are weak against Ogres.


Campaign mode doesn't really drop anything with more than 150 upgrades or stats on them. You really have to do survival for that sort of stuff. So say you figure you got the best of the best on the last wave of each campaign map. Say 150 to tower stats. That's only 600 from armor alone before the 30% bonus. That's assuming you got that on each piece with each stat you wanted. Then you add in weapon, say another 150 + whatever pet you can get. Again, no pet will have amazing stats unless you buy it from your tavern or do NM Survival. SO minus the pet, you have 930 for perfect gear just from campaign NM.

That's before upgrades and assuming you get your 150 per stat.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Jump at them. I do it all the time. I had no trouble dealing with them unless they were hovering over a bottomless pit. They have to get pretty close though, so it's not usually an issue for me.

They're air units, just like Wyverns are. Of course shooting classes are going to be better at it, but a squire can still do it if push comes to shove.


... with extra ...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I doubt your "progression" would have been possible without buying loot from other players and/or playing with over-geared players.

The problems with spiders wasn't solved with people figuring out strategies but rather super-loot finally saturating the market as the over-geared players dumped it for the better stuff they finally came across.


I play nightmare with two other people. All three of us are against gear stores , don't buy or sell gear, and have farmed all of our own gear. When we took a two week break between the old and new map we were working on waves 20+ of survival MM HC NM.

So yes, nightmare was completely doable before with no gear from shops and soley on the merits of your personal skill and progression. Nightmare has ALWAYS been easier with more than 1 person. By the merits of Apprentice/Huntress Guardian Boost alone and the ability to cover multiple lanes for ogres. It will be just like that again.

New mobs, new builds, new map layouts. There will be loot guides for dummies out again in a few days with updated strats to deal with genies and things will be business as usual for the people who have issues with the game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Campaign mode doesn't really drop anything with more than 150 upgrades or stats on them. You really have to do survival for that sort of stuff. So say you figure you got the best of the best on the last wave of each campaign map. Say 150 to tower stats. That's only 600 from armor alone before the 30% bonus. That's assuming you got that on each piece with each stat you wanted. Then you add in weapon, say another 150 + whatever pet you can get. Again, no pet will have amazing stats unless you buy it from your tavern or do NM Survival. SO minus the pet, you have 930 for perfect gear just from campaign NM.

That's before upgrades and assuming you get your 150 per stat.


Campaign Misty NM HC was dropping from wave 12 chests gear with 140 base stats and 130-135 upgrades for me. Thats easily 1000 tower damage before the 30% 1300 with the 30%. Add on a weapon from misty wave 12 with like 80-90 base stats and 175-213 upgrades and you're around 1550 stats and your pet which is easily +150 more tower even on a bad one, and your sitting between 1600-1700 tower stats on your tower build character.

There is plenty of gear avail from campaign to get to waves 20+ survival misty. The new map is only going to make it easier with the added levels and rare super loots. You can do it with lower stats with friends and make progression even easier. Playing with 2-4 people with boost pets and a good build and you could easily get to wave 20 on 1200-1300 tower stats.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The genies "djinn" ARE WAY TO OVER POWERED! in my personal opinion ALL the complaints about these jerks are quite valid! They have to much hp Between 200k-300k on hard! No melee attacking Them. Spawning behind defenses! Has anyone mentioned there cheap attack yet? On hard they were inflicting around 300 hp of damage when I had a 90% resistance. The attack also sends you FLYING through the air! On some levels this TOTALLY INSANE knock back will launch your rear straight off of a death drop! The attack is also almost always from behind! Trendy NEEDS to eliminate the total BS with spiders and now genies spawning behind defenses it is utterly cheap and can truly wreck your game! and ditch the damned knock back it is just plain wrong and insulting!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...