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This exactly, this is so comepletely unbalanced i cant believe they added them. Honestly, with half the health of an ogre what else BUT Harpoons will deal enough damage? With that taking 6 dpu a pop and needing atleast 2 take a genie out without it destroying a defence, how are we supposed to kill all of them and not let ogres and spiders destroy the rest? I've tried and tried, but nothing helps. They can't be aggro'd away, they can hardly be interrupted and they can remove 3 star defences no trouble. I do not see a way i can still play survival or nightmare in general and still have fun, the solution i can give is that instead of it taking out a defence, it should take away 1 upgrade level. This will make it so that you still have to pay attention but makes it less frustrating by far. Untill then, so long survival.


like that idea

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I just came back to check and see if they messed up yet another patch. And they did.

I launched a good old surv NM HC MM with my 2k+ tower attack app (no hom...hack). I got excited when my towers ignored the Djinns even if they were aimed right at them. So excited that I logged out and uninstalled the game when I lost 3 walls that I never should have lost.

You had such a good game going Trendy, but it feels as if you hate your costumers and that you actually put effort into driving them away. Good job as you certainly succeeded on that one.

When you said the famous "game by gamers for gamers" quote you forgot to mention that you were HORRIBLE gamers.

And to all of you that say "dont worry, they will fix this!". No they wount. Possible a tweak or two, but this will be one of those moments where another chunk of players quit.

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After playing with my off character who only has about 350k dps, on insane... I realized that Djinn are kind fn retarded... when you have to try and kill 3 at the same time before they unsummon a tower, it is close to impossible with dps at that level.

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Say what you will about Djinns, but I just went from getting to wave 20 on Ramparts to being unable to get to wave 15 on magus quarters.

If you fail to watch a tower/field/wall for 15 seconds, it can be instantly gone, regardless of upgrades or stats. I won't speak for anyone else, but that destroys the fun of a tower defense game for me, and I see nothing I can do to progress in this game anymore. Not only can I not get very far in the new content, its made the old content unplayable for me as well. I went from soloing uber fests to being unable to even get to the last wave.

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Any day now, I'm expecting Trendy to go: Haha, we were just kidding, you can go back to your spiders now. Cos I kinda miss the little buggers ;_;

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Any day now, I'm expecting Trendy to go: Haha, we were just kidding, you can go back to your spiders now. Cos I kinda miss the little buggers ;_;


You may even say that Trendy fixed the spider issues all in one swoop!

No one has whined about spiders for at least 24 hours now!

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Except your stats are way over the requirement for spires*.


*Citation needed

Or did you mean my stats are way over what spires used to require

Or perhaps way over what you think spires should require?

Anyway they nerfed Djinns so probably moot.

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New patch 7.21 seems to have done a lot to fix these guys.
not perfect what what people or me may want, but good.
Since I no longer die in one shot, I can pretty consistently get to wave 11 or 12 on Moraggo NM HC solo.
(pure squire build, and since I know i'll be asked)
600 / 1300 / 550 / 650 (about)
here I feel at least, that they are no longer the BIGGEST problem. - ogres are...
now surivval i think is another story entirely.
wave 16 Nm alch, we (1 more with me) had 8 ogres, and 10 djinn with spiders webbing everythign all at once.
>.> big bloody jump from 15 it was.

case in point: 7.21 has helped quite a bit to making them manageble.

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The Djinn wouldn't be so bad. But they're basically flying ogres that can delete our barricades. If you don't have 2000 stat towers, you can't possibly hope to DPS a Djinn quickly enough to prevent it, even with 3+ harpoons pointed in each direction.

Seriously, I thought that this patch might help with the loot progression, but now they made the best gear even LESS accessible to those of us without the best gear. I understand giving the furthest along more to do, but not at the cost of anybody else being able to join them without them selling us ****. Anybody who has used the shops looking for high end gear can tell you it doesn't happen.


This. My friend and I recently switched over to PC and in the last week or 2 we got to the the point where we were past playing insane stages and begining to beat mid to late stages on nightmare for some lower grade mythics now we are stuck at 300 tower stats with low end mythic weapons unable to complete any stages past the first 2-3 or get past more than a handful of waves on a couple of later stages which are unlikely to allow us to make any significant improvement on our equipment.

The problem is the very existanc eof the Djinn regardless of how well it is balanced is going to perpetuate the problems of low gear players being stuck with low gear because then cant beat the stages with better gear. The reason for this is the simple fact that enemies with the level of HP the Djinn has have to be stopped and worn down and the Djinn can both bypass and destroy defenses that you put in place to stop them and there is nothing a lower stat player can do about it.

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I joined a random game with some players to get the HC NM Defender achievement. We were doing pretty good, and that was pre-7.21 patch. Now I'm not sure how they have it now, but hopefully it should be easier. Our stats weren't even that high.

The Djinn are a bit annoying when they come out en-mass late round. But hopefully they aren't as bad any more. *goes to run some more maps under the new patch*

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If you fail to watch a tower/field/wall for 15 seconds,


If you aren't watching your towers for even 10 whole seconds in a game, you deserve to lose, Djinns or no Djinns.

You need less AFK, more keeping an eye with repairing and replacing.

I used to always use a combination of Auras and Squire towers to play solo. Guess why I can't now.


I mostly use Squire towers and Auras and I'm doing just fine. So will you.

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If you aren't watching your towers for even 10 whole seconds in a game, you deserve to lose, Djinns or no Djinns.


I can't accept that. Due to the ARPG elements in this game you have to accept the fact that some players will be below, some at and some in excess of the levels needed for a given level. That gives rise to situation where some players wil be strong enough to AFK some levels. If you refuse to accept that and insist on game balance that keeps all players needing to be active or risk failure then you inevitably create a situation where those levels become impossible for weaker players regardless of how much attention they pay to their towers and enemies.

If you want a challenge play survivals challeneges and the new stages and stop insisting on astate of affairs that makes the standard stages on nightmare almost impenetrable to new players.

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That gives rise to situation where some players wil be strong enough to AFK some levels.


I don't believe any player has a right to AFK any level, especially on Nightmare.

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From the preview material, I was under the impression that Djinn would come along and force specific defenses "out of phase" with the mobs for a little while. This seemed interesting, since it would have neutralized the defense temporarily, much like a spider, but actually preserved the defense at the cost of letting enemies run straight through it. That could've been kind of neat, scrambling to kill Djinn that had shifted your defenses in order to re-start defenses in that lane before too many mobs leaked through. It seemed a fun concept and I applauded Trendy for developing something like a spider, but more interesting to fight.

Instead of that, I get these blasted flying ogres zipping about and going straight up War of the Worlds on my poor, inaccurate defenses. Feels bad man.

You had such a good game going Trendy, but it feels as if you hate your costumers and that you actually put effort into driving them away. Good job as you certainly succeeded on that one.
I agree. This new Trap Girl outfit is a travesty that breaks the DLC's theme and should never have seen the light of day. Why are we discussing it in a Djinn thread though?

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Got to test out the Djinn and NM mode with the changes!

1) They did not fix the issue 100% for squires/melee units attacking djinn... usually it's way better, but sometimes they fly straight up and you can't get them. Pictures:
http://steamcommunity.com/id/draemn/screenshot/523781791290247036?tab=public
http://steamcommunity.com/id/draemn/screenshot/523781791290248453?tab=public

2) They are indeed pretty easy to manage/kill if you have okay towers with a guardian on it, they can now be taken out by high level towers (i.e. 2k attack) without guardians if done right. The increased unsummon time really helps as well as (I assume) the lower HP.

3) Yikes, for players with poor DPS they are brutal hard to deal with if your towers don't! As we know, towers don't always prioritize Djinn... so sometimes you're f'd if you don't have good dps. Even on insane.

4) Haven't tested out a lot of maps, but the few I have on NM, they removed spider spawns that eat up excessive DU that is now needed for Djinn defence, so far so good on this one!

5) I still think it's BS the way they can fly aywhere on the map they want... sometimes they can go over a wall that takes you 10-15 seconds to get around.

6) Is it really fair for them to deal damage to crystals with their attack? :(

No major complaints about djinn from me other than trying to kill them without the aid of towers... that's a bit brutal. I think they haven't been made too easy as they still manage to eat some towers once in a while, but they are pretty manageable without great stats if you have guardians boosting your def.

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Hello everyone, this is my first post. Don't know if it has been mentioned yet but a good defense I have been testing on NM Maps (not survival yet) for Djinn is a Darkness Trap (removes the elemental defense and causes an enemy to lose its current target).

By losing it's current target, Djinns will stop (Interrupt) their OP beam and fly around for a while until the effect wears off giving you time to attack and your other towers to attack, keep a Darkness Trap near a set of anti-air towers or your walls and they wont just vanish from a beam. Also all the other enemies coming towards will obviously be side tracked to and lose their elemental effect.

I'm going to keep experimenting with what we have but hope that helps some that are having trouble with that OP beam.

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From the preview material, I was under the impression that Djinn would come along and force specific defenses "out of phase" with the mobs for a little while. This seemed interesting, since it would have neutralized the defense temporarily, much like a spider, but actually preserved the defense at the cost of letting enemies run straight through it. That could've been kind of neat, scrambling to kill Djinn that had shifted your defenses in order to re-start defenses in that lane before too many mobs leaked through. It seemed a fun concept and I applauded Trendy for developing something like a spider, but more interesting to fight.


This was my impression, too. It would have been a much better mechanic than what we got.

I agree. This new Trap Girl outfit is a travesty that breaks the DLC's theme and should never have seen the light of day. Why are we discussing it in a Djinn thread though?


Reread what he says. It was a typo: costumers = customers. Also, Trap Girl is what people voted on for the next DLC.

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Hello everyone, this is my first post. Don't know if it has been mentioned yet but a good defense I have been testing on NM Maps (not survival yet) for Djinn is a Darkness Trap (removes the elemental defense and causes an enemy to lose its current target).

By losing it's current target, Djinns will stop (Interrupt) their OP beam and fly around for a while until the effect wears off giving you time to attack and your other towers to attack, keep a Darkness Trap near a set of anti-air towers or your walls and they wont just vanish from a beam. Also all the other enemies coming towards will obviously be side tracked to and lose their elemental effect.

I'm going to keep experimenting with what we have but hope that helps some that are having trouble with that OP beam.


You are Assuming that Djinn will fly over your darkness trap and not far above it or hovering off to the side. You are also assuming they won't stop further back and use their desummon ON THE DARKNESS TRAP while out of its range. You are also assuming that Darkness traps aren't horribly buggy and unreliable if an enemy is in the area of the trap before it is set off. In addition, you are assuming that the Djinn would even set off the trap while flying in the air. And finally, you are assuming that harpoons can even hit them enough to significantly damage one as they serpentine around.

These are great tactics for those of us with 2000k stat towers. The end gamers aren't the ones that are screwed over by this. Leaving NM campaign, you have 1000-1500 stat towers at best. That is not enough firepower to deal with Djinn and the regular waves of enemies in survival. There is no way to go from ending the campaign to the high end of gear with 2000+ stats. You just can't get far enough in UMF or Surivals to get any decent gear.

Its a poor tower defense game that gives you no way to deal with enemies with Towers. And Pure Strategy mode is now just a joke. Seriously, I wish someone from Trendy would recognize this rather than just nerfing the Djinn for the top end players and going home for the day.

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You are Assuming that Djinn will fly over your darkness trap and not far above it or hovering off to the side. You are also assuming they won't stop further back and use their desummon ON THE DARKNESS TRAP while out of its range. You are also assuming that Darkness traps aren't horribly buggy and unreliable if an enemy is in the area of the trap before it is set off. In addition, you are assuming that the Djinn would even set off the trap while flying in the air. And finally, you are assuming that harpoons can even hit them enough to significantly damage one as they serpentine around.


Your unknowledgeable complaining is hurting my ears. "Djinns will just eat traps." Just make them smaller... the effect radius is still the same, only the activation range is reduced (and therefore Djinns MUST enter the effect radius to unsummon it). If there is no enemy around to trigger it, MANUALLY detonate it. Done. All traps are now effectively safe from Djinns. Moving on. (And yes, all traps except ES can attack air, you just have to detonate it.)

Auras. See above. This is a bit tricker because there is no activation range, only the effect range. I'm not much of an Aura user, so I haven't come across a proper use for them yet.

My harpoons aren't even 1k and I have no problems using them killing Djinns solo. Maybe actually spend a few runs coming up with NEW builds.


That said, Trendy, loving the Djinns! I still hate the spiders, though. I still think the unsummoning should be changed to deleveling with the Level 0 tower being insta-gibed.

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Dijins would be manageable with the deleveling but you cant tell me that you can solo the new map on NM HC with Dijinns up till the boss. 3 Dijins spread across the map makes you unable to take care of all of them unless you could teleport to the exact location and insta kill them.

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My towers can handle Djinns on their own just fine (unless swarmed)... It's all about placement. Plus I am a builder-hybrid. I stay on my builder so I have no problem rebuilding (and killing excessive enemies in a lane when necessary).

Stop using a DPS-only character.

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- I wanted to write this as I am tired of reading complaints and people bashing Trendy -

Seriously... Trendy has been doing an amazing job listening to us and keeping up to date a game we all enjoy playing, most companies release something and dont bother with what any of us have to say so calm down everyone. so now to the Djinn, they are a VERY refreshing change to this game, yes they needed some tweaking, but Trendy was on top of that within hours. If ANYONE remembers Trendy said that this is "early access to Nightmare mode" that means it will not be done untill all 4 shards are out. This is a "work-in-progress" people, relax. I love that this game keeps changing, keeps it interesting. For everyone complaining that they actually have to 'think' and cant afk any more and have to change their setups, GROW UP! Seriously.

A Game is about PLAYING not leaving a computer up and walking away to come back hours later just to say you have the highest stats or most money or w/e. So excuse Trendy for giving us a nice challenge and making it so we actually have to PLAY the game we paid for. like, does anyone remember playing games on NES?, or are we all too young on here? there were no saves, and it was almost 100% about preciese timing and the games were ridiculously hard, and if you died or lost you would have start all over. so you would HAVE to play for 4 -5 hours straight to get through a game and there was no such thing as "AFK".

Trendy has just made the game here slightly more challenging and freshened it up with new levels and enemies. nothing wrong with that. So stop complaing that you are no longer the best-of-the-best and now have to actually play the game to get better. why would you want a game you can beat in a few hours or days then can walk away from. you wouldnt play it anymore if it was that easy. Having a challege it what keeps us coming back to the game. most games i have spent 50 or 60 bucks on i have no desire to play anymore. I have invested hundereds of hours into this game and I plan to invest hundereds more. I welcome the new characters and DLC's and perfer a challenge over something i can beat in a day. Enjoy the experience of playing this game while you can. ** I want to thank Trendy for all their detication and hard work for us ** Nut up or shut up people!

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