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I have only a minor problem with the new mob, melee can't hit them.

Please incorporate someway in which melee can hit them, so we can destroy them before they get rid of the tower they are targetting, atm its a pain since sometimes you simply just cannot reach them, making them impossible for melee to dps.

Other than that I like them, they are a breath of fresh air compared to what spiders were when they were first released.

Edit: Maybe a fix to this is when they are channeling their beam on a defense, they lower their y-height so melee can get stuck in?

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Ok, had 8 harpoons shooting 1 Djinn with a huntress guardian buffing 5 of them and still couldn't kill it before it de-summoned one of my auras (900 tower attack, 600 firing rate). Having a mob that can't be countered with a melee class at all is just frustrating and overpowered. I'd be fine with the de-summon if it could be interrupted in some way.

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My two cents:

The complete destruction of a tower is too far. Essentially you're forcing people to play with 3+ or else everything will disappear. To potentially fix this you could:

Instead of destruction of towers, degrade them (ex 3 stars to one star)
As mentioned before, increase time it takes and make it interruptable (although I believe it is interruptable)
Make their flight patterns less erratic (sometimes I can't even fire high enough to hit them)

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umm... how am I supposed to kill you? lol, out of all the fixes, this one I'd like to be first priority. That and a warning to tell you a djinn has spawned... I hate playing with my map up 80% of the game.

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Just finished playing ES NM camp with a friend. We managed to get past once and then failed twice. For both of us, it really seemed to be all about the Djinn now. WHERE'S THE DJINN?! KILL THE DJINN! WHERE'S THE DJINN? KILL THE DJINN! To heck with everything else.

Had to replace about 2-3 towers every round, which I can't imagine having to do for long in survival. I guess we just have to find new setups, with way more thinking about anti-air.

I don't know. I know there will be people who like the Djinn, and kudos to them, but so far I quite deeply dislike it.

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Okay so I'm seeing two seperate opinions here, one people are saying Djinns are fine, another they suck. I'm on the they suck side because I play solo and split screen using my barbarian to upgrade and repair and do some dps.

The most annoying thing to me with djinns is the instant destruction of a 3 star barricade with nothing i can do about it. Granted it is kind of fun to hurricane stance and jump around but they are unhitiable most of the time due to the way they move. Playing MM survival and having a Djinn in each lane by wave 8 all at the same time was difficult to deal with. I did beat the wave (granted i can usually get to wave 20) but i lost two barricades, and three proximity mines. The two barricades were 3 starred. If i constantly have to keep rebuilding stuff there is no way i'll be able to make it to wave 20 anymore because nothing will be upgraded. Genies don't seem to drop enough mana for the ability to destroy a (30+100+200+400+700+1220) 2650 mana cost item in a 10 seconds.

Hopefully they upped the quality of the loot enough that it will be good enough to advance at a lower level... hopefully....

Having Djinns makes me wonder what its going to be like if I try mixed mode.

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Overreact much?

I just registered to counteract some of the whining, sheesh.

The patch has been out for less than a day and people are complaining like it's the end of the world. You really expect me to believe you exhausted every possible strategy to counter the djinns in less than a day?

I failed exactly twice on ES NM HC campaign before I had a suitable strategy. I can now solo it without issue. And it's not like my stats are out of this world.

App stats 700/1500/500/500

Ok, now I'll join in the complaining...
I do think the melee characters need some sort of way to attack the genies. And damn do they hit hard, harder than DEWs or Ogres. They one hit my builder every time(poor resists :/ though).

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I copy that from the other Thread:

First of all the idea behind the jins is great. But its not possible anymore to solo or switch to dps char or whatever. The Harpoons don't priorise the Jins, so that they have sometimes enough time to destroy a tower. And then it's game over.

The big problem at this game is, if you make one mistake, the game's over. That was a real pain anyway in survival (one bunnyhop ogre, one slipping kobold, one defense down = loss etcpp.) Now you have added ANOTHER lucky based component. That wasn't a good idea.

In facts:
- they won't get priorised
- bowlers are even more useless cuz u need as much antiair tower
- they have way to much HP
- they dont get interrupted (sometimes if you do enough damage yes. but hey, players get interrupted by every single hit -> unfair)
- too much luck needed
- gastraps useless again (gas traps are just efficient if they are not in the range of towers to create a "Wall")
- so are enrage auras aswell
-while playing solo you can't switch to dps char because of randomly destroyed towers by jins
- it was hard to play totally different setups since spiders came and apps got nerfed. Now the options are even more reduced (because of no gastraps / jinspaws have to be covered aswell etcpp)

Thats enough for now I think. My advice is to give the people back more freedom to use a build they prefer.

Medium could be done (even HArd) from the beginning to the end. Insane was the second playthrough and is kinda impossible now (either u have low runstats or very bad tower stats) at this gear level u can't beat the insane game --> You need gear you can't earn playing solo /trading.
And the step to nightmare is even worse that it was last patch. Sure with a countress and ES farming okay you could do that. But is that the way to ENYOJ all levels with a new difficulty? The should be playable from Deeper Well to Glitter in a row and not whats going on now...

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All of you in this thread who say Djinns are easy have not tried to do Misty NM campaign. With 4 people in game the djinn have way too much HP to bring down... 4 djinn spawning on the same wing is a game ender... With huntress and App buffs we could not kill them before the sapped all our triple star harpoons (1448 Tatk) (2 each wing). The best part was our main DPS (my barb) couldn't even fight them because none of them would come back to the ground. Those a freaking ridiculous and should not have been implemented in any map other than Shard 2.

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I think people will adjust to cover most things. At some point there'll be a strategy like a bouncer per spider spawn to make them much more controlled. I actually like that the builders need to be around to account for losing towers, but I imagine that will frustrate some people.

There are two things that I think people can't adjust for very easily:
-Melee characters can't hit them - this one seems ridiculous. It's fine that they can cross barriers/heights unlike the rest of the mobs, but if they are going to have so many HP then melee characters need to be able to hit them. I like the hover idea that someone mentioned earlier.
-It seems towers that don't do anti-air are much much weaker now. Having to have anti air cover large areas of the map and not just wyvern lanes is a big shift. A bowling ball tower is almost useless in comparison to a harpoon now. Maybe the djinn spawns will be nailed down and people can handle them like spiders.

It would be nice if there were some indication that they are going to destroy a defense and when it's going to happen. Something like a death-ray sound that raises in pitch until the defense pops. Or if the defense faded away or glowed brighter until it disappeared.

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Yes!

I LOVE playing solo, but right now I'm not enjoying it at all.

I can't even get past round 2 of ES campaign anymore!


Same here, im complete lose the fun to play the game after the patch. F... Djinn

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I see a lot of people here just complaining about how the djinns change the gameplay too much and "OMG they are too powerful!"

Common folks, really? Adjust your strategy and adapt to the new mob. Everyone was all up in arms about spiders for the longest time because they didn't bother to change their layouts to either cover spider spawns or defend from all angles. The same thing is happening again with the djinn. Figure out where/how often they spawn, get yourself some decent AA, and don't expect the same tactics to work from pre-7.20 NM.

Don't expect to master their mechanics and perfect your defenses immediately. Make a couple attempts, fail, learn from your mistakes, rinse and repeat until success. Same as its always been.

That all being said, i DO see a couple places where they could be improved. Either A) show a message on the screen when a djinn has spawned or is attacking a defense,
or B) something similar to what Dark3nedFaith said above,


Instead of destruction of towers, degrade them (ex 3 stars to one star)


I think that is an excellent idea! When a tower reaches no upgrades then it is simply unsummoned. No need to make this interruptable as this will in effect make the djinns take longer to completely remove a tower, while still impacting its ability to defend.

If not this, then how about their attack just phases out the defense instead? Maybe for a set duration based on upgrade level/wave level, or make it a channel and so long as the djinn is attacking, the defense is out of phase. Defenses would come back in phase once the djinn has been dispatched.

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I just registered to counteract some of the whining, sheesh.

The patch has been out for less than a day and people are complaining like it's the end of the world. You really expect me to believe you exhausted every possible strategy to counter the djinns in less than a day?

I failed exactly twice on ES NM HC campaign before I had a suitable strategy. I can now solo it without issue. And it's not like my stats are out of this world.

App stats 700/1500/500/500

Ok, now I'll join in the complaining...
I do think the melee characters need some sort of way to attack the genies. And damn do they hit hard, harder than DEWs or Ogres. They one hit my builder every time(poor resists :/ though).


Except your stats are way over the requirement for spires.
Every patch since the app nerf has gone out of its way to hurt non hardcore solo play. This is most likly accidental. The issue is with the fact you need to be geared to be geared an thats the major issue the complants are just a result of this.

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For those of us not in uber gear the djinn are a bit op. been working on throne room for a couple weeks now with my squire and have managed to get boss down to 1.2mil health. Now with the new patch I can't get him below 12mil cause of the mass tardstorm of djinn that spawn. I counted after a minute and a half into the boss fight there were 25 djinn on the map and not one of my harpoons could hit them as they floated around ontop of my bouncers. I've managed to beat every level on nm now except throne room and summit and now it's just stupid to even try. Spent all night last night trying every possible setup I could think of to deal with the djinn on throne room.

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The Djinn wouldn't be so bad. But they're basically flying ogres that can delete our barricades. If you don't have 2000 stat towers, you can't possibly hope to DPS a Djinn quickly enough to prevent it, even with 3+ harpoons pointed in each direction.

Seriously, I thought that this patch might help with the loot progression, but now they made the best gear even LESS accessible to those of us without the best gear. I understand giving the furthest along more to do, but not at the cost of anybody else being able to join them without them selling us ****. Anybody who has used the shops looking for high end gear can tell you it doesn't happen.

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i see everyone mentioning harpoon towers but nothing bout DST or MM towers i found MM to hit them quite accurately

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MM hit them accurately, so do DST and all app towers, and on top of that, if I can handle them with ~800 tower stats across the board, it's more likely that it's a case of "I can't sit and AFK/Barely pay attention to my game during the round now." as opposed to "this is impossible."

The one thing the Djinn did do is make it so you have to move around and attend to your defenses rather than sit and just watch as everything dies automagically, which I personally don't see as a bad thing.

If anyone likes, I can show off some setups using Cubicleninja or otherwise that full-clear a lot of the Nightmare content with ~800-1k stat characters. The difference being you wont be able to replicate them just AFKing, you'll have to replace unsummoned barricades, auras, and towers, from time to time.

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MM hit them accurately, so do DST and all app towers, and on top of that, if I can handle them with ~800 tower stats across the board, it's more likely that it's a case of "I can't sit and AFK/Barely pay attention to my game during the round now." as opposed to "this is impossible."

The one thing the Djinn did do is make it so you have to move around and attend to your defenses rather than sit and just watch as everything dies automagically, which I personally don't see as a bad thing.

If anyone likes, I can show off some setups using Cubicleninja or otherwise that full-clear a lot of the Nightmare content with ~800-1k stat characters. The difference being you wont be able to replicate them just AFKing, you'll have to replace unsummoned barricades, auras, and towers, from time to time.


Can you show me how to do this in Mistymire nightmare hard core survival solo?

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How to ruin your tower defense game, in 7 easy steps:

1. Add an enemy that can completely remove a tower within a very short timeframe.
2. Make that enemy a flying enemy.
3. Make that enemy spawn at random locations.
4. Give that enemy a huge amount of health.
5. Make its hitbox incredibly weird.
6. Make it move erratically so towers have trouble hitting it.
7. Don't test it properly so it can delete towers from the other side of the map.

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Can you show me how to do this in Mistymire nightmare hard core survival solo?


Depends on what round you want to get to with ~800-1k stats.

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Depends on what round you want to get to with ~800-1k stats.


Haha great answer :).

I'm wondering if lightning towers will stop them from desummoning stuff. Has anyone tested this? Does it interrupt them?

(It also looks like there is a fix coming up to fix Djinn behavior).

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I'm wondering if lightning towers will stop them from desummoning stuff. Has anyone tested this? Does it interrupt them?


Don't seem to do it. Trying right now, ES NMHC. They don't care.
Being on my Adept I don't have the DPS to deal enough damage to interrupt them either.

ON TOP OF THAT, their "buff" sometimes freezes an enemy.
I died, and now I can't finish the map because a single enemy got buffed by a djinn and is now just sitting out of reach of my DST.
I'm seriously wondering if any playtesting went into this at all.

More fun times: The Adept's right-click blast doesn't faze them either. Seems like only a large enough packet of damage will.
In other words, if you rely on lightning and MM, tough luck.

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Don't seem to do it. Trying right now, ES NMHC. They don't care.
Being on my Adept I don't have the DPS to deal enough damage to interrupt them either.

ON TOP OF THAT, their "buff" sometimes freezes an enemy.
I died, and now I can't finish the map because a single enemy got buffed by a djinn and is now just sitting out of reach of my DST.
I'm seriously wondering if any playtesting went into this at all.

More fun times: The Adept's right-click blast doesn't faze them either. Seems like only a large enough packet of damage will.
In other words, if you rely on lightning and MM, tough luck.


Well that sucks, guess you need like 2K stats in Tower atk just to survive in Misty. :(

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I see a lot of people here just complaining about how the djinns change the gameplay too much and "OMG they are too powerful!"

Common folks, really? Adjust your strategy and adapt to the new mob. Everyone was all up in arms about spiders for the longest time because they didn't bother to change their layouts to either cover spider spawns or defend from all angles. The same thing is happening again with the djinn. Figure out where/how often they spawn, get yourself some decent AA, and don't expect the same tactics to work from pre-7.20 NM.

Don't expect to master their mechanics and perfect your defenses immediately. Make a couple attempts, fail, learn from your mistakes, rinse and repeat until success. Same as its always been.


I had 8 harpoons (all level 3), with 5 boosted by a huntress guardian (^43) and still it didn't kill or interrupt the Djinn before it desummoned an aura. This is over powered, when you have all your AA defenses boosted and focused on one enemy and it still can't be stopped. Neither spiders or Ogres are/were ever like this. I understand that we have to change our layouts, but when you have all of your defenses attacking one Djinn and it still can't be countered, what changed layout is there?

Hopefully, the 7.21 patch today will make it playable again.

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This exactly, this is so comepletely unbalanced i cant believe they added them. Honestly, with half the health of an ogre what else BUT Harpoons will deal enough damage? With that taking 6 dpu a pop and needing atleast 2 take a genie out without it destroying a defence, how are we supposed to kill all of them and not let ogres and spiders destroy the rest? I've tried and tried, but nothing helps. They can't be aggro'd away, they can hardly be interrupted and they can remove 3 star defences no trouble. I do not see a way i can still play survival or nightmare in general and still have fun, the solution i can give is that instead of it taking out a defence, it should take away 1 upgrade level. This will make it so that you still have to pay attention but makes it less frustrating by far. Untill then, so long survival.

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