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No one actually plays anymore :/


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I don't think anyone is suggesting nerfs were the sole cause for the declining player base, they are saying the nerfs are contributing to it.


Nerfings are almost always "the straw that breaks the camel's back". Almost every person who quits after an unfavorable update is already unhappy or starting to grow bored. People who quit cause a chain reaction with the people who play with them. That's reality.

Even if they completely revert the update today, it won't bring those people back. Some might come back for a while and leave again when they grow bored. That's how people work.

Im not going to put you into the "head up your ***" group as you got your post half right. But are you kidding me? Prior to that patch my group of friends used this game an unhealthy 14 hours a day. After, we all stopped.


You and your little friends aren't the only people who play the game. In fact, you're only speaking for the noisy 1% of the population. Steam achievement statistics agree with me. You're the one with your "head up your ***".

http://steamcommunity.com/stats/DungeonDefenders/achievements/

My husband and I played several hours a day, too. Not quite 14 hours a day, since we have jobs and whatnot, but most of our evening and weekends. His favorite class was the Squire, even before the most recent Squire buff. Do you know why he stopped playing? We got our Legendary Defender trophy after the update and he didn't want to put in the hours to grind for gear to make grinding for more gear easier.

I still play once in a while, but a lot less than I was. My preferred builder is Adept, and my preferred DPS is a Ranger. I didn't start bawwing like a baby just because things are a little tougher now.

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Even if they completely revert the update today, it won't bring those people back. Some might come back for a while and leave again when they grow bored. That's how people work.


Of course they wouldn't come back, who would come back to a game where classes are constantly nerfed and then brought back to where they were pre nerf?

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"There is nothing MMORPG about DD. Do you even know what the Ms stands for? Massively-Multiplayer. Do you know what that means? It means many people connecting to a single world. DD is just an ordinary multiplayer RPG like Bauldur's Gate and Diablo."


Yes I know what MMORPG means. I played a few in my day: WoW, Neocron, Everquest 2, others. Do you know what Pseudo means? Here I help you out. Pseudo means fake so your post proved me right. I am saying DD is trying to act like a MMORPG and in that realm the mage usually has the best dmg and worst hp. Here is Pseudo used in a sentence for you with. You are a Pseudo-intellectual: a person who wants to be thought of as having a lot of intelligence and knowledge but who is not really intelligent or knowledgeable. I hope you feel dumb now because you should. :)

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It's really sad that there are not that much people, ofcourse it's a bit trendy fault and they have to make this game a bit less grinding, and make it a bit smoother from difficulties. But if we want players, there is a thing WE can do.

Advertise ftw on the web.

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I for one has hopes this would tie me over until Torchlight2 comes out but I have lost so much interest in this game lately. I find myself looking for something new already.

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I for one has hopes this would tie me over until Torchlight2 comes out but I have lost so much interest in this game lately. I find myself looking for something new already.


My post-DD, pre-Diablo3 game is going to be Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning :squire:

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Torchlight was the shiznit except for the enchanting system that you could lose heirlooms and whatnots.

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There was/is a simple mod you could add that would prevent loss from the enchanting. Can't wait for T2!

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I agree that the lack of content for the end game has sort of soured me on the game as of late too. You can only do the same maps so many times before they start getting boring.

The fact that I just started playing Diablo II for the first time is also probably contributing to me moving away from DD now too.

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Nerfings are almost always "the straw that breaks the camel's back". Almost every person who quits after an unfavorable update is already unhappy or starting to grow bored. People who quit cause a chain reaction with the people who play with them. That's reality.


I disagree with this assertion re: the reality of what's going on. I've been playing online RPG's since the early 90's, and I've only played 2 games during a mass exodus. DD isn't losing people because of guild drama, raid burnout or another round of Resto Druid nerfs. I wasn't unhappy with the game, nor have I finished everything.

This situation is more reminiscent of the Trials of Atlantis expansion pack that came out for DAoC, that dropped the server counts by 80% after a month or so. Mythic still hasn't recovered from that release, or figured out why they lost nearly all of their players (probably for life). Blaming other online games is a pretty boilerplate reply but for the ToA example WoW didn't even exist yet. Having played through it, I would have paid the $30 if it meant the XPAC wouldn't happen. Sometimes the content is actually bad enough that once it's released it poisons the game beyond recovery. Kind of like Nightmare mode.

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I think you'll see a spike of players for the new content. I'd like to implement some interesting ways to retain that player spike, but this is purely personal conjecturing.

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All my friends quit playing and i gave up trying to play this game. All the open games are insane or below. They made NM too hard for all the casual players, that is why the player base for this game is tanking so bad.

Trendynet made its choice awhile back with nightmare mode, they catered to hardcore players and now we see this game player base tanking. No one wants to farm same crap over and over just to get enough mana to upgrade one piece of gear. No piece of gear should require over 10mil to fully upgrade period.

Unless i see some major changes i see no reason to bother with this game anymore. This game has lost its fun.

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I think you'll see a spike of players for the new content. I'd like to implement some interesting ways to retain that player spike, but this is purely personal conjecturing.


Just an advice, dont go and add new content that consist just of 1 map where you will get better gear, that will just make it a grind fest. I suggest you guys to try to open a few scenarios... more maps of the same Tier, start working Tierwise on each release.. that way you wont need to do the same place 100 times, it adds some variety.
You can also set like "this map gives better armor", "this map gives better weapons", "this map is the best for survival" (less mobs but stronger) and stuff like that... Not the same map over and over again... I get that people will eventually run the easiest of those to farm but, at least it doesnt make the rest of the content "not worthy"
The problem right now is that there is only one map that gives good rewards, the rest is just pointless. Doing it is just tiring.

Also, as staded above... the ammount of time/mana to upgrade a weapon 200 ups is just too much, im a "casual" with a hardcore spirit, i try to top off my skill etc, but its taking me soo much time to upgrade it that i wont ever want to change it beacuse i dont want to go trough all that again.

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Personally it's just that I am having kind of a break until 7.20 comes out :P


Me too, lol!
Just gonna hang until the 4th part of Lost Shards gets released, love the little story of this game :D hate the grind-fest !!!

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The only reason i dont play that much is becaus ive beaten all the maps and spiders add too much frustration to make it reaally fun to replay.

I dont do much multiplayer because generally more people dont add anything to my game in NM. They usually dont have good sense of strat so they cant help build and the dps the average person brings isnt worth the mob increase. The hard cap on du means every person after the first just adds whatever dps they do except for the giant maps where you cant repair everything alone.

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There is nothing MMORPG about DD. Do you even know what the Ms stands for? Massively-Multiplayer. Do you know what that means? It means many people connecting to a single world. DD is just an ordinary multiplayer RPG like Bauldur's Gate and Diablo.

DD is declining, not because of Class A got nerfed or Class B got some shiny new toy, but because people have run out of things to do.

New Player A buys DD, thinks its awesome and plays it a lot at first. They will probably finish campaign on at least medium, explore some or all 5 classes (counterparts aren't really "new" classes), get one or multiple characters to 60+, and work on Steam achievements. Most people will tire of a game once they've completed the goals they think are reasonable for themselves to accomplish.

Once you've done all the stuff I've already mentioned, all that's left is grinding for gear. If that's what you like, power to you. It won't keep your interest forever, though. Blaming decline in popularity on Patch A or B, well that just doesn't make any sense if you look at things logically.

I especially agree with the point of running out of stuff to do, i am on console though and you finish the game in under 10 hours with the four base classes, a high chance to lose your characters/equipment, hackers rampant everywhere, would you like me to continue. I admit they are screwing around balancing out of whack. But if we could get anything other than 1 map for $4 and still no patch. All in all i think although you have problems are favorites and the luckier of the platforms. I said f*** you trendy a long time ago when they led us on about the characters and gave us a map that has disappearing challenge weapons. They really don't have a clue what they're doing imo. They need to read in a little onto what they are going to do, i mean do they even test there own d*** game?

The saddest part is like someone already said is that the mods and such try and delete the posts/silence any of the players that don't lick father trendy's boots which have 255^'s by the way.(Cookie for the reference)

They as already said just attack the player and a couple of the wannabe mods also defend trendy for no good reason. Let's pray that they either don't release another game or if they do they don't expect anywhere as many sales as this game, because when the people that like to voice their opinons get p***** off then the company is not going to get anywhere.

http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/611496-dungeon-defenders/62083882
That's just one person that has been turned away from the game and they are completely giving up on you're game because trendy is giving no support to his consoles and he's tired of it.

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I stopped playing because the game turned into nothing but a grind-fest to get better gear. The game used to be purely about tower defense, now I feel it's taken what it was and turned it around into a MMORPG-ish feel to it now. Not the fact that it's "MMO", but the fact that the majority of MMORPGs you see out there is nothing but grind, grind, grind. Power level newly created characters to 74. Do nightmare over and over again to get better gear. Open an AFK shop to sell gear you don't need anymore. Do nightmare over and over yet again. Sell more gear. It certainly is not the game it used to be.

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"Grind-fest" is the only reason why people still spending hundreds of hours in DD. If you don't like it - enjoy your 50-100 hours of great "pure" tower defense game. High-end content isn't for you. Only people who like grind-fest, really need all these almost impossible stats. Guess why? Because they want to continue to grind.

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I still play because I'm still looking for better gear. Much of the time I play private games with guys that I work with, so I never even bother to look at public games. Too many aggravating people out there. Half of the time you let them play with you and they do nothing but loot or go AFK. The other half they expect you to carry them while they goof off or just generally make life harder (like agro'ing ogres to weaker points on the map). I think most people who are playing NM don't bother with pub's because of the vast quantity of frustration that incurs.

That said, when I do play pub NM I generally meet nice individuals. Many times we share tips and learn from different strategies. I'll be honest though, as soon as I hear a per-pubescent nasally voice I kick immediately with no warning. Children are the downfall of the internet and a source of constant grief for me.

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"Grind-fest" is the only reason why people still spending hundreds of hours in DD. If you don't like it - enjoy your 50-100 hours of great "pure" tower defense game. High-end content isn't for you. Only people who like grind-fest, really need all these almost impossible stats. Guess why? Because they want to continue to grind.

Just to let you know plenty of friends of mine and myself play tower defense games over and over and over again because they're fun...not because we enjoy grinding.

Yes, I understand that plenty of people enjoy grinding. But the problem is this game wasn't sold that way and it's definitely turned into something it wasn't just like JackieChan commented on. It's kind of funny (albeit in a sad way) when I talk to people who started playing after super-loot about the "good ole" days when 20 ups armor was redonkulous.

That's significant because back then towers actually mattered at least as much or more so than player dps.
Now most towers are an afterthought. It relegates the tower oriented "player" (the person, not the character) to the back burner. The entire game dynamic even shifted to reward players for this behavior: build some stuff and then switch to a dps character.

The rewards all come from playing this way and not from pure strategy mode (which has gone through a number of iterations and still ends up broken more often than not; it's not unreasonable to conclude pure strategy is an afterthought).

So what are we left with if it's not a tower defense game anymore?

Well, we certainly don't have an MMO.
There's no massive player base.
The game isn't set up to link massive amounts of players...in fact, the game punishes players the more they get together.
How this makes sense, I have no idea, but all of this is ignoring the other glaring issue that even if those weren't issues inherent to the game's design legit players are still left scared to play with others without risk of playing with cheaters.

It's not an FPS.
You can't even turn off auto-aim!

It's not simply a grind-fest, it's cheesy, mindless, the worst kind of grindfest.
If at the least they made it so we had to actually aim our weapons that would at least give people something to do while grinding.

But no, we get poorly balanced towers, pitiful community, and mindless/skill-less shooting.
The game excels at nothing it attempts to achieve and leaves any person interested in any of the genres it attempts to meld wanting more substantive...and that's the rub of the whole thing. It started out incredibly fun, though, I'll say that. So fun in fact that those of who started playing then gave it umpteenth chances to right itself. Now I think we come and play when the new stuff we bought back then releases but I wouldn't suspect much more than that...not based on my friend's list activity anyway.

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tier progression

I think you'll see a spike of players for the new content. I'd like to implement some interesting ways to retain that player spike, but this is purely personal conjecturing.


I think a good suggestion would be to set some tiered gear in this which could help stop the same map being farmed.

For example as you do a map 1 you get a random item from head to feet. once this is upgraded fully map 2 is the 2nd level of progression for this item and so on. menaing countless hours using this kit found at level 1 and ending at the last compaing level.

While these items found at lvl 1 might be terrible.. once fully upped and suitable to work for this level. One fully upped gear could be changed to map 2 name and upgrade root startsa again and so on.

One things needs to be kept and that is that the stats must be consistently better than the average gear found at each of these maps but no so good that nothing can beat these. After all the idea is to try and give most an ample standing if completing map 1 - End should have some prerrty decent gear.

The level of the gear needs to be decided but neither underpowered or overpowered.

Also.. make reward items none tradeable/droppable only vendor but maybe increase vendor price.

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I'm just waiting for the next DLC to come out. It's hard for me to try and go for new gear and work on a map when I know in a few days we'll be able to get to lvl 78, possibly get a new tower upgrade level, and have new gear to use and some nice buffs.

I do not understand why some people are so angry in this thread. I think i've played for a couple of hundred hours and if i stopped today I would have got my money's worth by far.

Just a couple of responses to the threads I've skimmed so far:
1) Nightmare is not impossible to start or for hardcore players only. However I agree Trendy does not give any hint that players should start nightmare off doing endless spires instead of deeper wells. If I didn't ever come to the forums I would have given up a long time ago trying to get anywhere in deeper wells.

2) Getting the mana to upgrade a weapon isn't really that difficult, its click on the freaking button that drives most of us nuts but that is hopefully fixed in the next patch.

3) You can't get anywhere in the top levels of this game without towers. Mindless shooting doesn't help and most of us wish we could turn off auto-aim as it actually seems to make you miss instead of hit anything.

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Just to let you know plenty of friends of mine and myself play tower defense games over and over and over again because they're fun...not because we enjoy grinding.

Play Easy-Insane over and over and over again. No one forces you to grind 24/7 only to complete easy Deeper Well. You can even buy cheap gear to complete NM Misty. You can read many guides. You can ask for help. But better complain about "poorly balanced towers and pitiful community".

I really don't understand why people can't ignore Nightmare and enjoy Easy-Insane part of DD.

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You can even buy cheap gear to complete NM Misty.


That's called "Pay To Win" and is generally frowned upon as being poor a gameplay decision.

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I think you'll see a spike of players for the new content. I'd like to implement some interesting ways to retain that player spike, but this is purely personal conjecturing.


The real issue is. Is that nightmare was badly implemented from the start, and offered no real progression line. DeeperWells being a very difficult map and offering garbage loot compared to spires only compounded the issue.

The result is that instead of having a linear progression on Nightmare, where you start at DeeperWells and work your way through the campaign, you have this disjointed progression that starts at Spires and goes directly to misty with no real sense of progression. That alone killed the replay-ability of the nightmare game to a huge degree. As there was no real reason to do the campaign other than achievements, and even then it's something you do as an afterthought after you get geared up. Add that to the complete gutting of the game that turns everyone into just a guardian buffer for towers + wall repair bot, and the sense of fun a lot of "DPS" players had is greatly reduced.

That's all water under the bridge though. The bigger issue facing the new shards release is, will it be beatable in misty gear. Because you have tons of over geared veterans who have been doing survival for weeks. If we can walk into the new map and smash the new boss, the player retention rate is going to be pretty slim. The new map needs to be hard, and needs to obsolete gear from Misty. But if using Misty Survival gear we can plow to the boss at level 74 and beat all the waves, the retention won't last that long.

Nightmare only lasted as long as it did because killing the SpiderQueen took some farming, and practice. If there is no farming needed and only practice it's going to get pretty boring sleeping through 12 waves of the new map to get the the boss.

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