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[quote]* Harpoon Turrets now incorporate target leading into their aiming, making them MUCH more effective against Wyverns and also fast-moving enemies[/quote]

Finally...

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oO....

Didnt they try this already? And didnt it get us like 4 hotfix patches and harps are still not where they were before they tried this vs spiders?

I see FUN incoming :p (look it up on the dwarf fortress wiki)

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But hasnt this been in A patch before?
No, there's been lots of tweaks to harpoon turret behavior, but not specifically in their (lack of) ability to lead targets.

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I wonder how this will effect the harpoon towers on the assault challenges, not that I could complete them on nightmare anyway :)

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Two simple facts and one question:

1. Harpoons have been dumb since day one. Since release.

(and it made us position them precisely on Insane Glits)

2. There were dozens of threads begging for target leading for harpoons.

(people who first started reaching high waves of Insane Survivals really brought the problem up since mobs there got enough speed for harpoon to miss everything)

Now, all of sudden, they're being patched. Why?

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Two simple facts and one question:

1. Harpoons have been dumb since day one. Since release.

(and it made us position them precisely on Insane Glits)

2. There were dozens of threads begging for target leading for harpoons.

(people who first started reaching high waves of Insane Survivals really brought the problem up since mobs there got enough speed for harpoon to miss everything)

Now, all of sudden, they're being patched. Why?


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I honestly felt that harpoons are very very much overpowered in terms of DPS..
i.e. high dmg + pierce
the only downside now is the inaccuracy that causes it to miss A LOT if not positioned correctly.
Therefore, I believe that the inaccuracy is the trade of for such insane DPS for a tower..
I feel that if they want to make it very much more accurate, then it'll be better to also nerf it in terms of damage, or better still, buff the rest of the towers.. App towers are much lower DPS in comparison and the monk/hunteress towers are more of support towers than being the DPS in the games.

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Now that's very smart of you... Go get a cookie.

Yet the question remains. Despite some, hm, homo erectus, who might think you can question just the nerfes and not the buffs..

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I honestly felt that harpoons are very very much overpowered in terms of DPS..
i.e. high dmg + pierce
the only downside now is the inaccuracy that causes it to miss A LOT if not positioned correctly.
Therefore, I believe that the inaccuracy is the trade of for such insane DPS for a tower..
I feel that if they want to make it very much more accurate, then it'll be better to also nerf it in terms of damage, or better still, buff the rest of the towers.. App towers are much lower DPS in comparison and the monk/hunteress towers are more of support towers than being the DPS in the games.


How many squire towers are capable of hitting things at a range? 2 How many of them are useful in more than just certain situations: 1. So, yeah the harpoon towers does a ton more damage than app towers, but it's the only squire tower that isn't completely situational. Plus, it still takes some time to turn, so using one to cover a large area will still result in enemies getting places you don't want them to.

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Oh bugger.

Just expanding on my *slightly* hurried comment^

I can think of two reasons why I think this is a bad idea.

1) Unless app towers are significantly buffed at the same time, they are going to lose the only advantage they have over squire builds. Harps already do more dps, and have a better "extra" with pierce (compared to FB AoE). If they become accurate as well, what reason is there to use app towers (except to burn your eyes out with flashy fireballs >.>)

2) Positioning of harps is essential for more than just increasing the chance to hit. You do it to maximise the possibility of a high number of pierce's. If it incorporates target leading, and the target jiggles slightly/walks around something there goes a wasted shot (think of piercing shot flying off to the side when firing into a spawn or other crowded area >.<).

So I really hope this is vertical target leading ONLY, to help with wyverns and smaller mobs.

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How many squire towers are capable of hitting things at a range? 2 How many of them are useful in more than just certain situations: 1. So, yeah the harpoon towers does a ton more damage than app towers, but it's the only squire tower that isn't completely situational. Plus, it still takes some time to turn, so using one to cover a large area will still result in enemies getting places you don't want them to.


The guy you quoted still has a point. If Harpoons do a ton of damage AND get their weakness fixed... There's no reasons to ever get a Tower App anymore, it would be a waste of DU better used on Harpoons.

Either: Buff Tower Apps so they do more damage than Harpoons, because they have trouble with elemental immunities and such.
OR: Nerf Harpoon towers so they are similar to App towers. I vote this choice.

When a nail sticks up, you hammer it down. You don't stick up all other nails.

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The guy you quoted still has a point. If Harpoons do a ton of damage AND get their weakness fixed... There's no reasons to ever get a Tower App anymore, it would be a waste of DU better used on Harpoons.

Either: Buff Tower Apps so they do more damage than Harpoons, because they have trouble with elemental immunities and such.
OR: Nerf Harpoon towers so they are similar to App towers. I vote this choice.

When a nail sticks up, you hammer it down. You don't stick up all other nails.


agreed, except i'd go with the former choice and not the latter. for balance, i'd rather have a choice of 2 good ones not 2 crappy ones. ;)

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The guy you quoted still has a point. If Harpoons do a ton of damage AND get their weakness fixed... There's no reasons to ever get a Tower App anymore, it would be a waste of DU better used on Harpoons.

Either: Buff Tower Apps so they do more damage than Harpoons, because they have trouble with elemental immunities and such.
OR: Nerf Harpoon towers so they are similar to App towers. I vote this choice.

When a nail sticks up, you hammer it down. You don't stick up all other nails.


Heh, NO!
Weakness? Well let me explain you in a quick way. A Harpoon takes around 5-6 seconds(about 10+ shots) in ENSNARE aura so that it can hit a "moving goblin/kobold/spider" take out the ENSNARE aura and harpoons can't pretty much hit them until smaller mobs are stationary which mostly in case of kobolds = explosion, I don't see that as a weakness, it was a flaw that's being fixed.

Harpoons shouldn't be nerfed, us Squire players don't have any "proper ranged DPS" tower, yes BB-Turrets are ranged, but in the longer run most of us will favor harpoons and harpoons only.

I don't remember a single NM Survival Layout using Slice-n-Dice blocks, so it's like we have to do things with 1 less option, bouncers are great at taking spiders out initially but they get weak in the longer run as well.

So I don't see why the only good Squire tower available should be nerfed coz you App players think it's OP?
Rather than crying for Harpoons being OP prove a point to Trendy so that they re-buff your App towers.

*Edit:
I thoroughly checked the patch notes to see if Squire towers were buffed in a way that would make them OP, well conclusion - NO.
They got buffed in Tower HP on NM, harpoon rotation speed increase and some more "fixes" and not "damage buffs". So if someone thinks HP and other buff/fixes makes them OP then they are just blindly saying it. Because there was no DAMAGE related buff, how exactly are they called as OP? People should call Trendy in for buffing Apprentice towers and not nerfing Squire towers.

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