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Hacking: What to do?


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First off, let me state a few things to avoid a mega flame thread, as I would like this to end is a possibility or at least some ideas for Trendy to fix.

1. I'm not a game developer, nor do I claim to know a lot about coding.
2. I don't play online except with friends.
3. I don't buy nor bought anything from a shop.
4. I have reported players for selling hacked items.
5. Because of 2-4, hackers have NO impact on my gaming experience, as I do not shoot for top ranked scores.

I just finished having a 20 minute conversation with a USD shopkeeper about the reasons that he hacks. This is just one instance, but I was curious and looking for some information. He wasn't an idiot, and at first glance the items looked possibly legit. Anyone who spends time on these forums or has reached end game content would know that they are hacked or a 1/1000000000 drop.

Therefore, hackers aren't dumb, they read these forums and know how to make gear 'look' legit. Any new player that feels like going shopping wouldn't know other than the fact the guys name was 'PAYPAL USD ONLY'. I mean, it's fairly consistent that a paypal shop will be full of hacked gear.

If you are new to the game, be wary of buying things from shops. Especially high-end mythical gear.

This shopkeeper did not hide the fact that he was a hacker and knew what he was doing wrong. He is apparently on his third account and stated...'it costs me one app guardian'. Meaning all he has to do is sell one item and he has made his money back from getting a new account.

By this, banning only slows a hacker, so unless he is getting banned everyday, there is little point.

His reasoning for starting up a shop was that he used to be a legit player, but once nightmare came out he didn't like the gap between insane-nightmare. He didn't like the fact that only 10% of people got to play nightmare.
There was a buyer in the shop that even butted in, "I spend 2 billion on a ret, that got nerfed." When I said to him to go out and farm the mana again, not a big deal, he stated that he got pulled through the AMP and therefore wasn't geared enough to get that kind of mana again. ASIDE: I think this guy was an idiot...

The reasoning then comes down to the fact that people don't like hitting their heads against a wall to progress. They don't like things that are 'too hard'. The loot progression is not as simple as you would think. Granted, on these forums there is a million and one ways to find an answer to the gap. Yes, its a grind, and some don't want the grind, but then since quite a few people are lazy/stupid/inept/play solo...call it whatever you want, they can't get past that gap, they resort to cheating. To me, getting across the gap is the most rewarding thing and continues to be a reward, and I think others would agree.

So, all in all...hacking is rampant in the community. The economy of legit shops is dwindling, kind of like the community. I have yet to understand why people just don't go play on Open with Lord Carver. However, if it continues it will tear the community/economy apart.

Solution:

1. Full account wipes have been suggested. Personally, a terrible idea for those of us who have legitimately got to where we are. However, it is a solution that could be possible.

2. Trendy could open a shop like they do on the mobile version, albeit this would be difficult. Personally, I'm not sure how well this would work as most things would have to be somewhat cosmetic and not game changing as then it would force people, or make them feel forced, to buy things from this shop.

3. Implement a harsher ban, including a 'steam wide ban'. Really, again this goes back to the fact that a hacker will just get a new account, and wouldn't actually take any damage other than time to sell another item. Personally, I don't know much about the details of Steam bans or VAC, I just don't see this being useful.

4. A wipe in which, all illegal items are wiped from the game. Anytime a modded weapon is used in Ranked, the game crashes. Some sort of DRM to allow the use of hacked items to be usable in Ranked. Personally, this seems to me to be the only way, but I would also assume that coding this would be a nightmare. I'll excuse the lame, obvious joke about coding it nightmare.

5. General concensus is that the only fix for this would be to implement a secure way to prevent hackers. This may or may not be done if and when there is a DD2.
Finally: [QUOTE]TE needs to fix the core hacking problem and not hire more people to cover it up. It takes more then hiring new people to fix that problem too. Remove the source of hacking and they don't need to ban. [/QUOTE]
Once this happens then server side storage can happen. Or maybe server side storage is the answer to actually stop the hacking.
Lord Carver: [QUOTE]The only thing we can hope for is server side data storage on DD2, if it ever exists.
[/QUOTE]

6. I think in the mean time, since the above would not be an easy fix...this should happen:
Hitmonchan: [QUOTE]Even if we banned the use of $$$, USD or Paypal in shop names, they would still crop up. It might be harder to find them, though[/QUOTE]
Even more so, if keywords were taken out of character names as well, it would at least be a start.

7. Removing shops entirely for the game. I've stated that because of hackers the economy has taken a turn for the worse. Selling is not worth the time unless you have top-end gear, and if you are selling top-end gear, then its buyer beware. Buying means a nightmare, sifting through shops and hoping the gear is legit.
Sercease: [QUOTE] Remove shops entirely till the hacking problem can be dealt with. This will slow if not halt the spread of hacked items. Sure people who already have hacked items or hack them will still do it, but now they only get personal gain from it. They at least aren't corrupting the community anymore, especially new players that are non the wiser. Shops are a good idea, in theory, for those more rare items, but it has spiraled downhill so bad that any legit shops are shadowed by the hacked mess. Some people will be angry about this change, but in the big picture I think it will benefit the community. [/QUOTE]
Maybe a overhaul is needed to the economy, like implementing an auction house, but this is doubtful as I would assume this to be a lot of work. Maybe for DD2 as suggested.

8. Still open for discussion....


tl;dr. Your lazy. Read it..or at least read the 5 stated numbers, and the 6 suggestions, so you don't at like an idiot and point redundant information.

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1) will never happen if trendy wants to keep there remaining playerbase (with the latest patches though im not sure....)

2) stupid idea would just be more money and less about the game

3) they have no effect on VAC and they cannot effect anything outside of DD

4) impossible to tell whats hacked and whats not so some legit items and some hacked items may be deleted/still remain

5) i see no way of them fixing this and i think people will just have to get along with it, its not like it really matters if this was PvP based i could totally understand but its not

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The only thing we can hope for is server side data storage on DD2, if it ever exists.

There's a million and one security flaws with this game.

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No offense, but while your statements may have value, your solutions are all invalid since they can't be implemented (realistically). Tbh, there is probably no solution that can be done without an entire system rework, and moving away from the steam servers to trendy owned and operated servers.

Even then it won't stop hackers and RMT'rs, they'd need to raise the price of the game to realistically do that.

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Great post and great answers all around. I'd just like to reiterate that we can only ban people from TrendyNet -- it's up to VAC to ban Steam-wide, and that's out of our control.

I wish more people would learn to stay away from USD shops. They wouldn't keep cropping up if people didn't keep using them. (Even if we banned the use of $$$, USD or Paypal in shop names, they would still crop up. It might be harder to find them, though. Might be worthwhile to look in to.)

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I do not know an answer to the problem, if it exists. Hopefully, I didn't mean to come off as if I did. I more or less wanted to compile the conversations into one to see if there was a possibility out there could fix the issue. I don't play online with strangers so I never have the issue but feel that it is an issue with the game/community.

The major part that it does effect me, is the possible economy in this game. I think the shops had the potential to be a great idea. With so many hacks, it lowers the integrity of what is out there. There are a lot of great shops, but sifting through is never a great time, and makes it worthless. An auction house could have made the economy much better...

The only thing we can hope for is server side data storage on DD2, if it ever exists.


This. I hope it will exist. The things that they have learned from this, and will continue learning through the progression of this game, would make a sequel epic.

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Great post on summarizing the current state of the game and the community. I have to say that I feel the exact same way.

EXCEPT...your solutions will not work for many reasons that I don't want to type out right now and have a debate. Instead, I will get to the meat of my solution...

And the solution is, making your own legit community group for people who want to play the game as it was intended.

I would be part of that group.

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Someone above mentioned there's a million and one security flaws with this game. Well I decided to test just how easy it is to 'hack' an item on local. I have no coding or programming experience but it took me all of 5 mins to watch a short youtube video then "edit" an item using a well known program.

I figured ok the item wouldn't save since it was basically editing data stored in my computers memory. Did a full shutdown and cold start on my pc, fired up DD again and behold the item still remained in it's edited version. Security flaws indeed!

On that note even though I did it on Local (hell no I would NOT do it on ranked) how do you delete/destroy an item without me getting the 2B mana it is now worth? I can drop it in my tavern but it remained there and didn't go away.

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On that note even though I did it on Local (hell no I would NOT do it on ranked) how do you delete/destroy an item without me getting the 2B mana it is now worth? I can drop it in my tavern but it remained there and didn't go away.

Can you drop it whilst in a round (before it finishes) so it vanishes without a trace? :)

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Hmm maybe I can drop it while building then when I start wave 1 it will vanish??


Just drop it in a map and then just go back to tavern. It'll disappear then. If you start the wave the game will sell it to you and if you have less than 200mil it'll boost you up to 200mil.

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There is no easy answer to hacking. There is a hard answer, though: server side items. Making a change like that this late into a game's life would be difficult to say the least, but it would straight out preempt any possibility of item hacking.

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I completely disagree with wiping everyone's accounts.

1. Because no.
2. Because stop posting desperate "solutions".
3. Because hackers will have all their items back in seconds whether or not you try to stop them.
4. Because hackers will have all their items back in seconds while we have to spend another 500 hours of play to get our stuff.

Thank you.

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Server wipe is not the answer. The answer is a new server (But make sure items are not hackable first!).

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It sounds like a service issue. Developer does not provide a way to shorten the gap for the player group - who is willing to spend money to have cut backs on time consumption. Thus they result to buying from hackers, in which will falls into another supply and demand pendulum, more hacker will show up because its profitable...

I guess money shop is the right solution.

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Great post and great answers all around. I'd just like to reiterate that we can only ban people from TrendyNet -- it's up to VAC to ban Steam-wide, and that's out of our control.

I wish more people would learn to stay away from USD shops. They wouldn't keep cropping up if people didn't keep using them. (Even if we banned the use of $$$, USD or Paypal in shop names, they would still crop up. It might be harder to find them, though. Might be worthwhile to look in to.)


Even at 2 billion mana, for US$1 (which i see around 5 of each time i look at games) i feel like screaming curses at the screen.

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It sounds like a service issue. Developer does not provide a way to shorten the gap for the player group - who is willing to spend money to have cut backs on time consumption. Thus they result to buying from hackers, in which will falls into another supply and demand pendulum, more hacker will show up because its profitable...

I guess money shop is the right solution.


If trendy offered Microtransactions like $2 for 1B Mana, they'd get some takers ... or even "entry level mythic gear" (the old end-tier godly, but with a mythic tag and a few more levels) or "mid-tier mythic gear" (like something a step below Zamira). Similar sort of solution.

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Oh yeah one last thing. Cash shops will only go away until trendy starts banning them. From the looks of things no one ever checks the list.

Reporters might as well not even bother. Trendy has a backlog of reports they have no manpower to manage.

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Oh yeah one last thing. Cash shops will only go away until trendy starts banning them.


I just don't understand how people can think this way. Trendy cannot ban them all.

The only way the USD shops will go away is if people, the community, you, stop buying from them.

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I just don't understand how people can think this way. Trendy cannot ban them all.

The only way the USD shops will go away is if people, the community, you, stop buying from them.


It's pretty east actually. You just get a few brain cells to analyze the data, input it into the main system, then get the arms and fingers to move into place and input the data onto my computer. It's really interesting, actually.

Telling people to stop buying from USD shops has just the same effectiveness of telling people not to do drugs. This dime bag proves just how effective that really is.

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It may "sound" easy but on the business end of it that costs time and $$$

For a newer company that might not have the personnel to do so appropriately just having the man power to put in said time might be an issue. We dont know maybe DD grew faster than Trendy was ready for. Sorry I don't know their company history.

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It may "sound" easy but on the business end of it that costs time and $$$

For a newer company that might not have the personnel to do so appropriately just having the man power to put in said time might be an issue. We dont know maybe DD grew faster than Trendy was ready for. Sorry I don't know their company history.


They could use some of their money to hire people to do it. But they don't.

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They could use some of their money to hire people to do it. But they don't.


Looks like you have it all figured out.

Please inform the community when you get your video game company off the ground.

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Looks like you have it all figured out.

Please inform the community when you get your video game company off the ground.


I don't have to have a game company to give suggestions.

But yes, if I did make a game company it would be a lot better than this one.

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I don't have to have a game company to give suggestions.

But yes, if I did make a game company it would be a lot better than this one.


I suspect the point was that you (or anyone uninitiated) may not understand the position of an indie company, or a game company. Those with experience know what's happening, and tend to see things that Trendy would probably rather we didn't. Some people tend to make assumptions about things (or assume they see or understand things) and come off as a little silly at times. The real problem is that those who know tend to stay back, or assume the community has knowledge greater than they do, and tend to get snapped at by people (via PM/email/infractions).

There's a lot floating around by certain (unnamed) individuals about the community sharing, or not sharing, or similar 'hot' button topics. The same individuals tend to say something that seems a little off, or those who know can either actually confirm or deny.

Anyway, while there's a lot wrong with this game, a lot of things could be done to block hacking, nobody has come out and said "do this", because making that knowledge public would only make the hacking worse.

(Oh, and before I get an infraction for this ... I'm not meaning to point the finger anyone, I'm just expanding on the issue. If this is offensive, my apologies in advance.)

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