Standardized rewards

I can understand how random drops can add longevity to a game like this, but the fact that rewards are random can be EXTREMELY frustrating to players who are unlucky. This means any given player could spend a potentially infinite amount of time repeating a level they can barely pass trying to get a DECENT drop while their friend gets the best possible in 1 game. That is completely unfair. Perhaps item quality should be relative to something directly relating to time invested or skill?

The idea sounds a little like other games that have ranks given out through map completion.

You can't simply eliminate the random factor, as that'd kill the replay value of a level, as well as severely diminish the value of trading.


Some other games that deal with Ranks (S through D) have certain criteria such as: Clear a map in X time while taking less than Y damage, while also scoring Z points = S rank or lower (random weapon stats, but on the appropriate "tier").

D, C, B, A offer the same weapons, but with random stats that also fall within certain boundaries. For instance, if the maximum possible damage of a weapon was 2500, then S rank could offer random weapons in the 2300-2500 category, A rank 2100-2299, etc.

To be honest, the completely random nature of rewards is probably here to stay without implementing the kind of system I gave an example of.

there are 2 reason readily obvious why there is such randomization in the loot, and that is, to keep the game alive, and to provide a means to acquire the necessary currency to level your gear.

you have to have crap to sell to make the stuff you keep better.

My point is that if the reward is relative to actual skill, players will retry levels for a higher score or something that leads to better drops.

My point is that if the reward is relative to actual skill, players will retry levels for a higher score or something that leads to better drops.

The person who doesn't attack or build in this game seems to get to most points. So the best reward would go to the person who did nothing.

I can understand how random drops can add longevity to a game like this, but the fact that rewards are random can be EXTREMELY frustrating to players who are unlucky. This means any given player could spend a potentially infinite amount of time repeating a level they can barely pass trying to get a DECENT drop while their friend gets the best possible in 1 game. That is completely unfair.

There's absolutely nothing "unfair" about what you describe here. Is it a pain in the butt? It certainly can be, but that doesn't make it "unfair". Each player is treated the same in terms of random generation of items. Everyone being treated equally is the definition of "fair". The situation you're outlining here is one that sucks, sure, but it's not one that's "unfair".
[quote]Perhaps item quality should be relative to something directly relating to time invested or skill?[/QUOTE] Personally, I don't like guarantees like this. Part of the fun for me is discovering the quality of what I get, not knowing what it will be before I start.

Personally, I don't like guarantees like this. Part of the fun for me is discovering the quality of what I get, not knowing what it will be before I start.

Ditto, the mystery factor adds to half the fun imo. Sure you have to run the same levels over and over but your going to need money anyway. Always makes that item that much better and cherished too when you run an entire survival and only get one thing.

I think the random factor in general rewards (such as completing a map or something you can do multiple times) should stay. But one time rewards (Parents weapons, chicken, etc.) I think OP has a potential point. Not saying take random out completely, but limit it slightly more. Something to consider.

yeah, i agree on this for things like the parent weapons, chickens, and tf2 items.

I think if you were to do something based on player skill, make it that the MVP gets a little reward like in UMF. I don't think that the rewards should be set in stone. I like the randomness of it too, although have been frustrated when I see a friend get something better. Kinda like those 10 mana pets...haven't seen one yet myself, but my friend has 6 or 7. Frustrating but that is the luck of 'random'.

I think if you were to do something based on player skill, make it that the MVP gets a little reward like in UMF.

This is a dangerous game, the problem with giving higher rewards to MVP is, for instance, when we play I do all the building on my mage since she has the highest stats. Instant MVP! Unless somebody can manage to mow down more mobs with hero dps than the entire map covered in towers. Then it turns into "I want to build, I want MVP rewards!" battles.

However, if they reworked MVP to account for more than who built more stuff, it could be a great idea. If it say took repairing & upgrading & hero killing & mana collected & least damage taken, etc as factors and not towers (basically everything on the hero pane post wrap up minus the tower kills stat. That way your looking at the actual character and the contribution they made (which extends beyond being able to place a tower) and leaving the "who build what" out of it. The guy who stands in the corner going afk with a guardian but built the map wouldn't get MVP anymore. It would be the guy running around repairing and upgrading everything, as it should be imo.

Kinda like those 10 mana pets...haven't seen one yet myself, but my friend has 6 or 7. Frustrating but that is the luck of 'random'.

I do not! I have 8.

However, if they reworked MVP to account for more than who built more stuff, it could be a great idea. If it say took repairing & upgrading & hero killing & mana collected & least damage taken, etc as factors and not towers (basically everything on the hero pane post wrap up minus the tower kills stat. That way your looking at the actual character and the contribution they made (which extends beyond being able to place a tower) and leaving the "who build what" out of it. The guy who stands in the corner going afk with a guardian but built the map wouldn't get MVP anymore. It would be the guy running around repairing and upgrading everything, as it should be imo.

Very true. If they were to implement it they would have to rework the MVP. I was simply suggesting a way to implement player skill rewards. I don't think it is possible or a good idea since it is a team based game and there is no 'I' in team.

[QUOTE]I do not! I have 8. [/QUOTE]

Well...sorry, if I exaggerated by 2! :P

I feel your pain. I just solo'd UMF2 nightmare only to get an 'amazing whatever' weapon and a godly helm. No worries I said to myself, I'll get good pets.

Then I looked at the shop

-> :demon:

WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY !
Every time I carry someone through spires they get a 10 mana pet, but not me :(

Every time I carry someone through spires they get a 10 mana pet, but not me :(

Run NM HC Ramps, bit more complicated setup but the pet rolls are awesome. I don't have proof that they are better rolls but from my experience of endlessly running spires and never seeing good pets, it is miles better. I saw more pets (useful ones too, not just dps) in a handful of ramps runs than I did with days and days of spires farming.

Gear needs to be standardized in general a la Diablo 2. Known stat caps so we know what is perfect and what isn't. It would make spotting hacked gear far easier, despite what some people may think.

I think what they need in the game for the various completion awards (i.e. wave 15, boss kills, etc) is a minimum. what I mean is, you should always be able to expect at least a mediocre pet at the very least. People would still redo levels looking to get the best rewards possible, but at least if you're looking for something to use yourself, you don't come out of the game with a nm pet with 60 ups and 4 negatives.

The other thing I think would be good would be less loot, but of higher quality. what I mean is the chance of finding a good item would remain the same, as there would be less, but you wouldn't have a plethora of crap clogging the screen either. that and item caps. it's pretty ludicrous that I can start wave 14 of UMF, then see several green items, only at the end for there to be one, as the item cap has been exceeded, and they've been replaced.