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WHy do you guys screw me everytime you patch


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Everytime you guys release a patch it screws me and everyone else over.
Everytime i finally get somewhere in the game LEGIT by the way, you completely undo it.

Myst survival was doable before. Maybe not always wave 20-30 but doable up to wave 20 at least.
Then BAM a nerf. All the levels I once could do on NM now i can't even come close anymore.

That makes me feel good. Real good. To know the time i wasted improving in your game to excell just to yet again have it undone by your stupid patch.

I Love having to re-do my NM levels again and again and again to maybe get half way. Makes the game so much damn fun.

Getting somewhere then getting nerfed. Makes the game even MORE fun.

Me and my friends don't wanna play this garbage anymore. We have had enough. You can't take away from people what they accomplished for no ****ing reason.

How about actually listening to your users complaints and doing something about it.

Is that so hard ?
Really is it?

This is so sad... I'll never buy another trendy product again.
At least other games have proper patches that don't screw over players from what they were.

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Itt: Wahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhwahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh


^this

ok i want to try to be polite
i can do every compaign map
i was able to do them before but my builds have become way more complex and refined since the nerfs
nerfs are needed ...not everyone and not as hard as some happens but they are needed
if you were able to do a lvl before you are still able to do it if you try to use your brain and understand which tower is a good choice and where
same goes for the characters beeing out while playing
and if you were able to do mysty hc surv till wave 20 your equipp should be similar to mine

so what i want to say:
pls dont bother everyone with whining and swearing
just think about how you gonna improve yourself

sidenote:
nm is hard....really hard and it should be because its the endgame and the only thing left that can provide a challenge to us
that it is still very inbalanced and sometimes frstrating is a other story

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Would you guys rather they not fix balance issues at all? Sometimes a nerf is needed to bring things closer to balance. You can't solve balance issues by buffing up everything else- not only is it more work, but it makes future balancing even more difficult.

Nerfs never make people happy. But sometimes it's better in the long run.

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Would you guys rather they not fix balance issues at all? Sometimes a nerf is needed to bring things closer to balance. You can't solve balance issues by buffing up everything else- not only is it more work, but it makes future balancing even more difficult.

Nerfs never make people happy. But sometimes it's better in the long run.


Balancing and nerfing may be needed but I think it'd be better if each nerf/buff was a bit more moderated. As far as DPS goes, it's quite easy to calculate in this game, it just tells you. With each patch, it just seems it's things are buffed WAY too much, or nerfed way too much. Like a 50% damage reduction just seems excessive. Not only for nerfing but also for the initial buff. I think overall, people would be a lot less pissed if people saw their DPS didn't get cut in half over a patch... but that has to start with having a lower initial damage on the weapon to start with.

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I got up to wave 24 before patch on misty, tried it properly once after patch and got to wave 21 first time, not too bad, just need to refine strategy a bit. So either you're really bad or a whiner, can't tell which

This is to OP btw

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I got up to wave 24 before patch on misty, tried it properly once after patch and got to wave 21 first time, not too bad, just need to refine strategy a bit. So either you're really bad or a whiner, can't tell which

This is to OP btw


You can't really blame someone for being bad at a game and being frustrated. Maybe they don't have that much time to practice or is hard for them to adjust to a game. Especially on this forum, you hear of the people complaining about how it's too easy and you look at their stats and they obviously invested a ton of time into playing whereas someone like me, I probably logged about 30 hours playing and the rest is the overnight AFK shop hours. So I'll find the game hard to start with and after nerfs, it'll be even harder.

For the most part, I'm not involved in building, my friends are and they look up all the different builds out there, and we try different strategies but still isn't working out for us because we just don't have the equipment or characters built up for it. As much as we want to play a lot more to get the better equipment, it's just not possible with opposing work schedules and other house work. So from our perspective, it just seems really futile and hard to get any progress at all, unless we're playing on insane and yes, we'll finish the rounds etc etc.

EDIT: I can't stand people saying l2p after we lose or something. What do you think I'm doing on the game? Baking pies? ಠ_ಠ

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So I'm guessing from the responses compared to what was on here shortly after 7.16 is that most of the folks who were frustrated have already left the game and the forums. Because all I keep seeing now are folks with the "waahhh" response when someone vents frustration.

He has a point about losing playerbase permanently. People just drift to other indie games. 60% of my group of friends have already quick playing for other indie stuff like Fortune Summoners or whatever. I don't think it is too late. I'm hoping the release of the 2nd shard content brings back the fun to a lot of people who like to play for 4 hours and feel like they have actually made progress.

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Were dark elves buffed this patch? They seem to kill me more than anything else anymore and their movepseed is insane. I can't outrun them at all anymore.

EDIT: even if they did, it is actually a pretty cool change, because whenever I see a dark elf, I KNOW I'll be dead anyway, so it gives me more time to drink water, check up on my Tiny Tower, check my phone, and probably play a bit of bejeweled because of the spawn deaths.

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Would you guys rather they not fix balance issues at all? Sometimes a nerf is needed to bring things closer to balance. You can't solve balance issues by buffing up everything else- not only is it more work, but it makes future balancing even more difficult.

Nerfs never make people happy. But sometimes it's better in the long run.


My problem with it is that their buffs/nerfs seem completely random to me. They make an uber-powerful (easily obtained) gun many times better than everything else without realizing it. It then takes them not one, but two patches to "balance" it out. Pet damage skyrockets up one patch, and then they halve it the next. They release NM mode, let it run for a couple of months, and then realize that all this time they had a crucial nerf that they forgot to put in. They must not have even the slightest idea as to how their game is being played (or they just don't care, which would explain why people can hack and sell for USD in plain sight).

Trendy is losing many of their high-level players whom these nerfs currently affect. And they are going to lose even more when the low level players get to insane and run into a brick wall that can only be scaled with hacks, handouts, or a few hundred hours in survival; I'm not sure the game is going to have a "long run". I'm not trying to scare them into doing what I want (they unfortunately already have my money), I'd just like for this game to not be completely dead when/if I eventually come back to it.

Who knows, maybe they have something that obviously needs to be done hidden up their sleeves to win everyone back. Like, storing player data on their servers to stop the rampant hacking. Or adding another difficulty so that they can stop trying to make their current end-game unbeatable. Hell, I'd settle for a mechanic that makes survival less of a time-sink.

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Would you guys rather they not fix balance issues at all?


Actually, what I'd like is if you fixed the actual balance issue: the fact that there was an item stat value explosion.

So you guys are trying to make the game "fair" without having started from a foundation that was level.

I've tried pointing out the cracks in that foundation, but I keep getting told that "that's not a problem." And the cracks are growing wider.

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I just wish they would consider or atleast reply to one of the many threads complaining about the sheer mechanics of most of the squire towers, like the harpoon. The fact that it misses so much, gets stuck up on walls, or aims at targets it will not shoot at, makes it not a fun or ideal tower for most defenders. OF COURSE there will be good spots for them still, and yes they require a lot more planning and precision when placing them, but why? So to *balance* this tower that misses so much, they make it so that it does lots more damage, sounds like an easy way to try to fix it but, in my opinion, it just digs the imbalance hole that much deeper. I feel Trendy is ignoring the facts that Squire towers merchanics are repetative (SND & Bouncer basically serve the same purpose) and dodgy to use.

Consider this, and please consider this Trendy. When you first play the game on campaign, normal, monsters move slow. A harpoon can shoot at a monster moving diagonally towards it and it would still hit it. Leagues later and wave 15+ nightmare, harpoon turret still misses things inside snare auras unless its directly in line with it. Your game has changed in difficulty quite a lot, some of these towers that you created at release need more changes than just damage changes to keep up with the flow of nightmare. Since the tower only works shooting strait down a line, can you please change the projectory width so that it is much more narrow like the bowling ball tower, or give us an option to use the + and - to shrink the width of towers like you did with auras :D

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I just wish they would consider or atleast reply to one of the many threads complaining about the sheer mechanics of most of the squire towers, like the harpoon.


I'm almost certain that noone who actually has any influence over the direction of the game actually reads the forum.

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In all fairness I know that to not be true. Jeremy himself replies to threads ranging from a screenshot of their giant trophy to rage posts to legitimate suggestion threads. While I do notice that he has days where he seems to be pretty active, responding a lot, and sometimes a few days where I atleast won't read anything recent hes posted (doesn't mean of course it isn't happening). And that's just one person, the self acclaimed head honcho. On top of that they for sure have techs reading forums because withing moments of a patch coming out, and monsters being bugged in their pathing, I've posted it on the forums then had private messages from some of them on the forum asking where exactly did the bugging occur. I never took part in game forums, reading and especially responding. I have a love for this game like no other, and I honestly wouldn't waste my time suggesting stuff or even having a little rage fit in the forum if I didn't think it had no chance of someone at Trendy reading it.

With that being said, I know they have seen the complaints about the harpoon that I've listed, along with many others (not all I agree with either) but there is definately something flawed about squire towers overallness, and scaling their damage alone is not going to fix it I don't think.

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Would you guys rather they not fix balance issues at all? Sometimes a nerf is needed to bring things closer to balance. You can't solve balance issues by buffing up everything else- not only is it more work, but it makes future balancing even more difficult.

Nerfs never make people happy. But sometimes it's better in the long run.


I can only speak for myself and all my friends who quit DD over the last patch. But what I/we want is a fun game. The way DD is handled now and how it plays is not fun, so yeah I rather they did not do that.

I could not care less if my friend played a huntress and he did more dps than me. Heck I would roll a huntress too, so that I could get in on that. And that's what I did, only to see the nerfbat hit my huntress and my builder apprentice more or less at the same time without any warning.

This is not a pvp game so no one freaking cares about balance. If they made squire do 124million dps tomorrow, then I would be like "HOT DAMN" and want in on that. And I would roll a squire and laugh all the way to the "flavor of the month bank".

The game was/could be crack to people. But now they nerfed what made it fun to me and my friends. On the bright side I can still do 30 min long waves in survivals only to have an archer oneshot a crystal through a wall at wave 22. Then I can go to my tavern and see 3x 22^ ups pets. Oh the joy. But fear not! I can waste another 8 hours doing the same grind!

The game is just so freaking tedious at this point that just rather not play it.

Meh, I don't know why I even bother posting this, its not like it will help. And I'll probably have to read some brain numb fanboi's reply when I wake up. And while I understand that people may be tired of the "whine" on these forums. It's sadly a very just kind of "whine".

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Just to clarify something here. The nerfs in question were to effectively bring pure builds in line, not any hero specifically. They wanted people to combine the collective towers between each hero and have people find the various strengths and weaknesses between them to understand why things should be where and why. At least that's how I would've handled such nerfs in this occasion as at the same time they buffed the health on squire towers for people to, maybe, realize spike barricades could be used in lieu of magicades when paired with the now more du efficient darkness traps.

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As Trendy have mentioned many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many times before. Nightmare mode is far from endgame Nightmare mode. This explains all the changes.

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I can only speak for myself and all my friends who quit DD over the last patch. But what I/we want is a fun game. The way DD is handled now and how it plays is not fun, so yeah I rather they did not do that.


That pretty much sums it up. When you're playing co-op against the environment; nerfs are just not fun for anyone. If they nerfed and presented you with other viable options (like if they tested their changes and actually found the right balance before updating), it would have been fine; but blending squire and app towers does not bring you back to previous power levels, and no non-hacked item will ever be as good as the Retribution.

It's like trying to run a race where people keep tripping you, and moving the finish line further back. It's just not that fun having to spend another few dozen hours trying to get back to where you already were.

Most importantly, nerfs just are not as vital in this kind of game as they would be in an MMO or RTS. The rampant hacking (and I'm sure nerfs = good business for them) is doing far more to destabilize the game than a power imbalance ever could. Hell, hacking is probably responsible for 3/4 of the Retributions out there. Yet Trendy is still relying on a system where people have to report players themselves, with screen shots, for a chance at stopping anyone. Which feels about as effective as those windows dialog boxes asking if you want to report the previous error to MS.

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That pretty much sums it up. When you're playing co-op against the environment; nerfs are just not fun for anyone. If they nerfed and presented you with other viable options (like if they tested their changes and actually found the right balance before updating), it would have been fine; but blending squire and app towers does not bring you back to previous power levels, and no non-hacked item will ever be as good as the Retribution.

It's like trying to run a race where people keep tripping you, and moving the finish line further back. It's just not that fun having to spend another few dozen hours trying to get back to where you already were.

Most importantly, nerfs just are not as vital in this kind of game as they would be in an MMO or RTS. The rampant hacking (and I'm sure nerfs = good business for them) is doing far more to destabilize the game than a power imbalance ever could. Hell, hacking is probably responsible for 3/4 of the Retributions out there. Yet Trendy is still relying on a system where people have to report players themselves, with screen shots, for a chance at stopping anyone. Which feels about as effective as those windows dialog boxes asking if you want to report the previous error to MS.


Just to touch on something, nerfs are never fun for the community in the short run. But in the long run they will show you exactly why they happened, and why they happened when they did. Most of these nerfs are to prepare for newer content and so the developers can effectively provide you with a challenging environment. It's also not particularly fun to be the one doing the nerfing either from Trendy's side. They want you to have fun and for you to feel at ease knowing your particularly strategy/weapon works for you in the way you want, but sometimes they need to do these things for the greater good, and not specifically target anyone.

If you want to be mad at nerfs that's fine, but don't get mad at Trendy for them. Nerfs are a necessary evil in the grand scheme of design, it's not something that can be avoided.

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Balancing and nerfing may be needed but I think it'd be better if each nerf/buff was a bit more moderated.


Nerfing is never needed. Most people don't even know what this word even means anymore. It used to describe taking something powerful (possibly even overpowered) and obliterating its stats to the point where it is considered useless. That's not balance. Of course, now it's just used to describe making something weaker.

Just to clarify something here. The nerfs in question were to effectively bring pure builds in line, not any hero specifically.


Mission failed. Just finished Summit NM HC last night with only Squire towers. In fact, almost all of our NM/HC wins for the achievement were done with just Squire towers (my husband and I were just starting to transition to Nightmare when 7.16 came out).

I don't know that reducing Apprentice towers to the extent that they did was necessary, since my gear wasn't particularly great (800 tower damage) and Nightmare was still quite challenging for me. Boosting Squire towers like they did may have been enough on its own to increase diversity in builds, but we'll never know now.

Diablo II was fun as hell, but patch 1.10 killed it for me when they started adding immunities everywhere in Nightmare. There's challenge that's fun and there's things that are annoyingly difficult.

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...
Meh, I don't know why I even bother posting this, its not like it will help. And I'll probably have to read some brain numb fanboi's reply when I wake up. And while I understand that people may be tired of the "whine" on these forums. It's sadly a very just kind of "whine".



fanboi's only reply because they care about you; Its not your fault that your opinion is inferior to their opinion, right?

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I can only speak for myself and all my friends who quit DD over the last patch. But what I/we want is a fun game. The way DD is handled now and how it plays is not fun, so yeah I rather they did not do that.

I could not care less if my friend played a huntress and he did more dps than me. Heck I would roll a huntress too, so that I could get in on that. And that's what I did, only to see the nerfbat hit my huntress and my builder apprentice more or less at the same time without any warning.

This is not a pvp game so no one freaking cares about balance. If they made squire do 124million dps tomorrow, then I would be like "HOT DAMN" and want in on that. And I would roll a squire and laugh all the way to the "flavor of the month bank".

The game was/could be crack to people. But now they nerfed what made it fun to me and my friends. On the bright side I can still do 30 min long waves in survivals only to have an archer oneshot a crystal through a wall at wave 22. Then I can go to my tavern and see 3x 22^ ups pets. Oh the joy. But fear not! I can waste another 8 hours doing the same grind!

The game is just so freaking tedious at this point that just rather not play it.

Meh, I don't know why I even bother posting this, its not like it will help. And I'll probably have to read some brain numb fanboi's reply when I wake up. And while I understand that people may be tired of the "whine" on these forums. It's sadly a very just kind of "whine".


That's pretty much what I said before but all the fanboys kept on insisting that I was spoon-fed all my life and want everything to be easy so I just gave up.

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TThis is not a pvp game so no one freaking cares about balance. If they made squire do 124million dps tomorrow, then I would be like "HOT DAMN" and want in on that. And I would roll a squire and laugh all the way to the "flavor of the month bank".


This.

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If you want to be mad at nerfs that's fine, but don't get mad at Trendy for them. Nerfs are a necessary evil in the grand scheme of design, it's not something that can be avoided.


I'd be perfectly fine with nerfs if I thought that Trendy had a grand plan beyond trying to stretch out NM. Or, if their changes did not seem completely random from patch to patch. I would really love to believe that Trendy carefully thought out specific changes, tested them, and once they were sure an improved balance had been achieved, released it to the world. But the last few patches have proven that they do not even make it to step one.

I think it's very telling that (at least how they tell the story) the bulk of their NM nerfs had been sitting in their un-submitted code for months without anyone there noticing. They did not seem to think changes were necessary until they submitted their new update and then discovered these lost changes.

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rofl i love this thread. I just don't play DD anymore.
Congratulations on the response trendy ... Wait whats that?? You didn't respond?? *GASP*

At least own up to your stupid mistakes on every patch.

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