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The current status of hunters 7.16c for end-game content


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Huntress and Rangers compared to other classes are completely underwhelming. Lets look at some tidbits:

-Hunters are the 3rd highest dps behind barbarian and squires.
-Hunters have the 2nd worst survivability right behind mages.
-Hunter traps are by far the worst of any other class towers and a complete waste of points over other towers that could be used instead.

With no building skills, they're forced to be pure dps. On campaign and low rounds of survival, they shine because of their range and being able to clear mobs outside of the base without as much fear of being killed. However, in high waves of survival, they become almost useless. Monsters move to fast, hit too hard, have tons of hp, and if you stay invisible outside the base, a DEW will 2shot you. Their low survivability keeps them from repairing as efficiently as tankier classes and their subpar dps makes them less efficient at killing spiders if they're stuck inside the base. Past round 18, there is no reason to have a hunter in game. They provide absolutely nothing compared to other classes. Sure, they can help dps an ogre from afar but with appropriate pets, your 300k dps with the best gear in the game just doesn't cut it against a 26 million hp ogre.

To put in plain, hunters need more dps. The original, pre-nerf retribution felt right for nightmare or at least made the hunter class useful. Revert the retribution nerfs and buff the damage on other guns. Or, significantly raise hero atk scaling for hunters. Until then, my ranger will be collecting dust as I play some misty survival and other end game missions.

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So your argument is that hunters are the best ranged DPS in the game, but worse than 2/3 of the melee DPS (who take lots of hits and have to heal constantly), so you need your DPS to be increased?

On top of the darkness trap changes that made them usable...

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rangers/huntresses get more hp than monks/initiates, whilst still doing better dps than them. their traps also just got buffed recently, give them a try before claiming them to suck.

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The only Hunter traps I can deem to be good at this time are the proximity and darkness traps. Gas, Immolation, and Etheral Spike just have some flaws that cause them to be cast aside for more useful buildings.

Gas Trap is close to being an excellent trap, if they would just affect spiders. They don't seem to, and for general wave control, ensnare functions more smoothly. Giving gas traps the ability to lock-down spiders would give them a unique utility, and allow for choices beyond just planting a bouncer blockade underneath their drop points.

Ethereal Spike is in a bit worse shape. While its ceiling trigger is fantastic, the damage winds up coming very close to the Proximity trap. This is only an issue because the Spike trap only hits one target per trigger, versus all targets within its radius like the Proximity trap. The idea here would be to use Ethereal spikes as extra damage against Ogres or Dark Elf Warriors, unfortunately their damage is a tad too low to be useful in Nightmare.

Immolation trap is decent, but awkward. Its purpose is a tad redundant (Area of Effect Fire Damage, also accomplished by Proximity Trap). Its damage is also lower than I'd like for it to be for a 5 DU building (Again Proximity is only 3, and does a good deal of damage up front.) This trap works wonderfully in conjunction with the gas trap, but that can be an expensive solution at best. It could also work well up front of blockades, but this presents my other (albeit nitpicky) issue with them: They're far too bright and vibrant. I have a similar issue with Fireball towers, but the extra visual effects from these types of buildings make it difficult to see clearly what is going on during combat. I'd like to see these either toned down, or have an option to just remove it entirely.

To sum up, I believe Ethereal Spike needs a damage boost in NM, Gas needs to affect Spiders, and Immolation needs to calm down with its visual effects.

Class stat wise, hard to say. I'd like to see the other classes just get bigger buffs to their health in NM, it's a tad daunting to have three Dark Elves pounce on you while you're webbed.

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i think hunters r over powered. a slow aura + exploding trap would bring u all the way to misty hardcore wave 20, considering how little the DU cost is, plus hunters with ret can easily out dps any melee. try playing a melee and try to dps in misty hardcore wave 15-20. i would rather take a hunter and dps orges from a safe distance

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i think hunters r over powered. a slow aura + exploding trap would bring u all the way to misty hardcore wave 20, considering how little the DU cost is, plus hunters with ret can easily out dps any melee. try playing a melee and try to dps in misty hardcore wave 15-20. i would rather take a hunter and dps orges from a safe distance


I don't know what gear you're sporting but with my gear, I certainly can't make it that far with ensnare and exploding trap. Granted, I can get to wave 15-20 but that's with squire builds and mage blockades.... and I'm really just there because of my app guardian.. and by wave 17 onwards, I'm dying every round because DEW are coming way too fast at me during repairs.

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So your argument is that hunters are the best ranged DPS in the game, but worse than 2/3 of the melee DPS (who take lots of hits and have to heal constantly), so you need your DPS to be increased?

On top of the darkness trap changes that made them usable...


Darkness traps are a waste if you're using app setup due to 1 DU walls doing the same thing and they're a waste if you're using squire setup. If you're mixing the setup, it still feels like a waste just because you're going to have non elemental towers taking out stuff that your elemental towers won't get.

Trap damage has always been sort of pointless as well since they run out quick (are you going to run into the fray of monsters to repair traps?) and are much harder to buff than other towers. The gas traps are pointless because non poison mobs don't make it past slow auras anyway so they would just end up not doing anything against poison monsters which you would need the stun for.

Yes, melee takes more damage but i'm talking about late waves when you aren't really going past the barricades on your hunters anyway. What's the point if a squire/barbarian can keep stuff repaired/kill spiders better than you if you're both stuck inside your barricades? Also, with the new changes to fairies/healing auras, you may even be able to create bubbles on each point and fight.

Point is, hunters need some considerable buffs. Especially since they seem to be balancing this around the end-game players who can actually play above wave 20 on survival maps.

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here is how i currently see this, my huntress has currently got around 1300 hero attack with a 254^ ret.
The said thing is that my mage also level 74 with about 300 hero attack atm and a 140^ staff has more dps then my ranger.

This is how i see this,
The mage who is imo supposed to be the tower builder, quick healer and upgrader, and should be able to still kill a mob if needed, has way more dps then my speced out huntress.

The huntress is the ranged dps class, not the mage.
Yes the original ret was op, what i suggest is getting at least rid of the second nerf to balance things out.

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Darkness traps are a waste if you're using app setup due to 1 DU walls doing the same thing and they're a waste if you're using squire setup.


Apparently you don't know the new Meta...

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Yes, melee takes more damage but i'm talking about late waves when you aren't really going past the barricades on your hunters anyway. What's the point if a squire/barbarian can keep stuff repaired/kill spiders better than you if you're both stuck inside your barricades? Also, with the new changes to fairies/healing auras, you may even be able to create bubbles on each point and fight.


Guess how much dps melee does behind blockades to lanes? 0. Guess how much dps you do to lanes behind blockades? 300k+

Hunters do not have the second worst survivability, monks/initiates do. Your survivability just in the middle, like your dps.

You're being overly dramatic.

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Ok what the f***? Huntress/Ranger Traps are not useless.
Ether and gas are so is inferno
Proximity dominates ether Ensnare dominates gas FireBall dominates inferno trap

@Op Your survivability theory is bad as range = Distance making you go behind monk in survivability

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Huntress low survivability? And who say their traps are bad? Their bombs have such big range now and pretty good damage. just learn how to place your traps well. I am mainly using huntress/squire towers now.

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Guess how much dps melee does behind blockades to lanes? 0. Guess how much dps you do to lanes behind blockades? 300k+

Hunters do not have the second worst survivability, monks/initiates do. Your survivability just in the middle, like your dps.

You're being overly dramatic.


I've been in nm runs with squire having close to 90% resistence still, with 350k hp, I don't see them standing behind the barricade, they still rush in once the ogre is down. They are repairing if enough ogres are up though.

The only dps that stay behind are those without much nm experience, literally having not resistance at all. If i see them, I give them the tip they need need resistance, I am not the type to boot player for not being ready. Everyone needs experience and got to start somewhere. I just hate the afk ones.

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I still prefer Gas traps over ensnares as it's instant-stop on x amount of mobs, ensares just slow them down. I haven't played on 7.16c though so I could be going back to auras because of the 1 less du. But the hunt's do have great uses for their traps, I still use eth traps too just not on misty.

Their dps is still great considering they don't need to be up close in the action and that's why they have a low survivability because of their usefulness at range, invis still does wonders for quick repairing and even mob slaying and with good resists a DEW usually will 2/3-hit you unless you're wave 25+ (monks have lower survivability and they have no real place in NM now other than auras).

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worse than 2/3 of the melee DPS (who take lots of hits and have to heal constantly)


Actually no, my barbarian never heals himself, he has a skill for that.

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LOL... Gas trap is the most overpowered trap ever.... Anyone saying it's useless has NO idea how to use them. Look in the guides section, the 2 builds posted that get above wave 20 in misty survival have gas traps in them. Also, darkness is still VERY good even with mage blockades. The point is the get rid of immunities before the walls take a hit. Without the darkness trap, around 25% of the mobs will be immune to the ensnares, making it very easy to reach your walls, kobolds will 2-3 shot them down mostlikely in the higher waves. The ranger can turn invisible, having only to worry about DEWs. Placing a darkness + gas + inferno kills everything xept ogres, and requires no repairs during waves. The only really useless trap is the eth trap (that 1 is for sure)... and true, proxy is a little better than the inferno for less DU (that is a little weird)

Anyways, every class has a pretty much useless tower/trap anyways... It's pretty hard to balance everything, there will most likely always be something thats better than the rest. BUT, they are still useable.

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Ethereal trap work differently then the others. To optimize the use of it, shrink and base on how strong the ogre is, create 2x2, 3x3, 4x4 ethereal traps together to go off all at once. Sadly, this tactic require alot of DUs. I suggest they reduce it to 1 DUs, or drastically increase it's damage for it to be useful.

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Clearly op doesn't know what he/she is talking about.
The damage for the hunter/huntress is perfectly fine. They stay behind lines to kill things at a good amount of DPS, and thus has less durability than melee, which can/will sometimes have far far more DPS, because it's melee. You're complaining about ranged classes is unjustified, they've been brought back into line so that the squire and barbarian can also shine, not just the freaking huntress.

Onto the traps. I use traps in every build I have, they're useful in ANY way, any ANY build made with traps you can expect to be even more successful than with just aura's and apprentice towers.
While I agree that eathrel traps are really underwhelming when it comes to damage, gas traps are still amazing with it's stopping power, and darkness traps ENSURE they're being useful (Due to elemental loss).

The hunter/huntress is finally balanced where it's at, and it hasn't been so even since the launch of the game.

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The mage ... has way more dps then my speced out huntress.

The huntress is the ranged dps class, not the mage.


The tradeoff is lower hp for higher damage. The apprentice does and should have more dps than a hunter.

However, its not "way" more dps like how you say it. My hunter weapon does 1m dps and pierces when only two discs hit. My apprentice weapon does 2.3m dps, but only when all 6 magic balls hit, and the magic balls have a small splash instead of piercing.

It is quite balanced comparing a mage vs a hunter.

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Clearly op doesn't know what he/she is talking about.
The damage for the hunter/huntress is perfectly fine. They stay behind lines to kill things at a good amount of DPS, and thus has less durability than melee, which can/will sometimes have far far more DPS, because it's melee. You're complaining about ranged classes is unjustified, they've been brought back into line so that the squire and barbarian can also shine, not just the freaking huntress..


Umm, no.... a tank class (squire/countess) should never have more DPS than a ranged DPS because they're role is to be a meat shield, their role in the game is to have high hp and survivability to take hits and taunt attention off the more squishy dps and nukers. That's how their design for any game, WoW, EverQuest, Guild Wars., etc. Even standing behind lines, you're still vulnerable to DEW, spiders and ogre snot.

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LOL... Gas trap is the most overpowered trap ever.... Anyone saying it's useless has NO idea how to use them. Look in the guides section, the 2 builds posted that get above wave 20 in misty survival have gas traps in them. Also, darkness is still VERY good even with mage blockades. The point is the get rid of immunities before the walls take a hit. Without the darkness trap, around 25% of the mobs will be immune to the ensnares, making it very easy to reach your walls, kobolds will 2-3 shot them down mostlikely in the higher waves. The ranger can turn invisible, having only to worry about DEWs. Placing a darkness + gas + inferno kills everything xept ogres, and requires no repairs during waves. The only really useless trap is the eth trap (that 1 is for sure)... and true, proxy is a little better than the inferno for less DU (that is a little weird)

Anyways, every class has a pretty much useless tower/trap anyways... It's pretty hard to balance everything, there will most likely always be something thats better than the rest. BUT, they are still useable.

the only reason the gas traps are there are to sbow where to stand for effective app/hunt guardian use

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Umm, no.... a tank class (squire/countess) should never have more DPS than a ranged DPS because they're role is to be a meat shield, their role in the game is to have high hp and survivability to take hits and taunt attention off the more squishy dps and nukers. That's how their design for any game, WoW, EverQuest, Guild Wars., etc. Even standing behind lines, you're still vulnerable to DEW, spiders and ogre snot.

this game doesn't require tanks and squires should not be considered so (definitely not countesses). i'm questioning whether or not you've even played guild wars, because neither does that game.

the thing that dungeon defenders and guild wars have in common is that neither game has a real threat or aggro system. the monster whose aggro needs to be controlled in this game is the ogre. how is that controlled you ask? by the person or defense that does the most dps. so then why the flip do you want to take away a squires only ability to hold the ogres aggro?!?

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this game doesn't require tanks and squires should not be considered so (definitely not countesses). i'm questioning whether or not you've even played guild wars, because neither does that game.

the thing that dungeon defenders and guild wars have in common is that neither game has a real threat or aggro system. the monster whose aggro needs to be controlled in this game is the ogre. how is that controlled you ask? by the person or defense that does the most dps. so then why the flip do you want to take away a squires only ability to hold the ogres aggro?!?


Back when I played, my caster sure as heck didn't stand next to the monsters. It was the "melee types" that's for sure.

At the current moment, when my wife and I both are playing, she is doing a lot more damage as a countess... well, doing a lot more period. I'm sitting behind the lines, shooting and still getting killed.... I dont even know what's killing me. Not a DEW, and i"m standing far back enough away from kobolds.. I cant clear any lanes as far I can tell so whats the point of the huntress then?

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Clearly op doesn't know what he/she is talking about.
The damage for the hunter/huntress is perfectly fine. They stay behind lines to kill things at a good amount of DPS, and thus has less durability than melee, which can/will sometimes have far far more DPS, because it's melee. You're complaining about ranged classes is unjustified, they've been brought back into line so that the squire and barbarian can also shine, not just the freaking huntress.

Onto the traps. I use traps in every build I have, they're useful in ANY way, any ANY build made with traps you can expect to be even more successful than with just aura's and apprentice towers.
While I agree that eathrel traps are really underwhelming when it comes to damage, gas traps are still amazing with it's stopping power, and darkness traps ENSURE they're being useful (Due to elemental loss).

The hunter/huntress is finally balanced where it's at, and it hasn't been so even since the launch of the game.


I have 90% generic resists, and 70-80% resists for the others in nightmare. My ranger has about 2.4k damage and almost 2k hp and currently at about 2.5mil dps on the training dummy. I'v also beat misty survival more than a few times. So I do have some idea of what I'm talking about. Go ahead and play your ranger thinking the ~300k dps you're doing is making a difference, but when a poison ninja takes you out or you get smashed at a barricade trying to repair and you fail on wave 25 or whatever, you'll wish you were playing a tank.

I'm not saying that traps aren't useable, I don't doubt you can have some success with them. I'm just saying that they're outclassed by other towers in almost everyway.

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