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This community is simply insane


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Ok, I've done software QA before (granted, for websites, but the principles are similar), so I *am* in a position to criticise. Releasing new content that includes a character that ends up with two right hands (Barb dual-wielding High Fives) and new UI features that simply can't be accessed when using an xBox controller is extremely poor form. These are elementary mistakes that I picked up almost immediately. If the beta testers are doing a good job, then I dread to think how unplayable the game must have been before they ironed out. Or, they aren't being thorough enough.

Back to the OP's point, I do think that the community is too reactionary, however it's not helped by TE being too reactionary with their patches. There doesn't seem to be an overall plan and continually rebalancing the game with quite major changes rather than minor tweaks is going to upset a lot of people.

I'd suggest that once the Eternia Shards DLC is all released (since they've committed themselves to that with the option to buy all 4 parts), TE takes a step back for a couple of months, reads *every* complaint and bug report in the forums and then goes away to patch the game properly. Work out how best to balance the game properly, beta test thoroughly and then release a major patch that addresses all of this. After that, only minor patches should be needed and the core game should be considered "finished". New DLC should then be released more slowly (to allow proper beta testing before release), but with the release dates announced long in advance (including for console players) and then STUCK TO. If all of that is done, I honestly think that TE's reputation with the player base will be massively improved.

My point is not to put blame on something you don't understand. Even with all the QA experience in the world, you don't know how Trendy handles theirs. For all you know, the beta team here could just be something meant to distract people from thinking the fault lies with Trendy. That's my point. No one here but Trendy and those on the beta team really know for sure how things are handled. If you want to put blame on something, at least be accurate. If I beta tested the barb, there's a good chance I wouldn't have figured out the same handed-ness because that's not exactly something you would come across unless specifically testing the weapons that it has faults in (few and far between as no one uses them). Does that make me a bad beta tester? Not really. Not every issue can be caught and probably because that wasn't a PLAYABILITY issue it might not have been given the highest priority to 1, check out, 2, fix if found.

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Unfortunately its a business and if they dont constantly evolve and sell material they are done. So they cant fix every single issue and read every single complaint. Your way is how it needs to be done but its not how it can be done in real world.

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^ This guy should not be taken seriously. Considering he's not a beta tester he does not know what goes on behind closed doors so he what he says has no value.


My point is not to put blame on something you don't understand. Even with all the QA experience in the world, you don't know how Trendy handles theirs. For all you know, the beta team here could just be something meant to distract people from thinking the fault lies with Trendy. That's my point. No one here but Trendy and those on the beta team really know for sure how things are handled. If you want to put blame on something, at least be accurate. If I beta tested the barb, there's a good chance I wouldn't have figured out the same handed-ness because that's not exactly something you would come across unless specifically testing the weapons that it has faults in (few and far between as no one uses them). Does that make me a bad beta tester? Not really. Not every issue can be caught and probably because that wasn't a PLAYABILITY issue it might not have been given the highest priority to 1, check out, 2, fix if found.


I have a hard time taking your posts seriously. You don't have to know the entire development process to see that the new content wasn't fully tested. If they had given me a Retribution with 5m dps, I would've told them that it's way beyond a 2m dps DT. Everyone who has upgraded a Retribution could have told them that with 80m invested the weapon was worth 200m.

People get used to new stuff, of course they will complain when you take it away afterwards. I don't expect them to get everything right the first time, but with a minimal amount of testing such obvious flaws could've been avoided.

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From a balance perspective it's fine that these changes were made. From a testing perspective it leaves me wondering if it was tested thoroughly to begin with. It's not the first time we've seen 31337 damage weapons making it into the open game (as in not beta testing version) to only afterwards be nerfed by 50% or even more.

tl;dr heated arguments aren't necessary, but more content testing seems to be in order before releasing it into the actual game (my opinion, no game development background)

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I have a hard time taking your posts seriously. You don't have to know the entire development process to see that the new content wasn't fully tested. If they had given me a Retribution with 5m dps, I would've told them that it's way beyond a 2m dps DT. Everyone who has upgraded a Retribution could have told them that with 80m invested the weapon was worth 200m.

People get used to new stuff, of course they will complain when you take it away afterwards. I don't expect them to get everything right the first time, but with a minimal amount of testing such obvious flaws could've been avoided.

So if Trendy completely bypasses the beta team and releases a totally broken patch, the beta team is to blame? Hypothetical since that's all anything you guys say can be since none of you know how the internals are working with Trendy. What if some intern at Trendy pushed a code change behind the dev's backs and then it went live? Still the fault of the beta team?

Do you honestly think the beta team is just sitting there looking at weapons doing unreasonable dps and saying "go ahead! this passes!"? I see them being removed from the team if they do that. If they weren't to be removed from the team, blame still would fall on Trendy at that point. You don't need a beta team to do simple math. 4 projectiles * 7 weapon speed * 68.5 * 250^ * pierce. Gee. A good idea of how much damage it will do takes a few seconds.


TL;DR - I'm not going to pay attention to someone who 1, isn't on the beta team and 2, isn't a part of Trendy on what they think are facts involving them and neither should anyone else.

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Fact - Many/Most bugs you find in software were caught by qa, logged, and ignored by development/buisness because it wasn't deemed critical.

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Fact - Many/Most bugs you find in software were caught by qa, logged, and ignored by development/buisness because it wasn't deemed critical.


As a professional software developer (waiting for a build right now, not skiving honest) this is a little disingenuous. Yes QA may have logged the issue however in most cases bugs which aren't fixed are deemed "lower priority" than other stuff because try as we might we haven't figured out how to add more hours to a day/days to a week/weeks to a month/months to a year yet.

Basically would you rather have something which generally works with some minor bugs or all the minor bugs fixed in a broken product?


It's like if everything isn't broken and handed to you on a silver platter it's a sign trendy is ruining the game.


This sentence sums up the whole gaming industry right now not just this community. Gamer entitlement at it's zenith.

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While I agree that some people go a bit overboard with patch rage... it's something that's always going to happen =\

Please keep it on topic guys!

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App towers were brought in line with Squires after they were buffed to create a more balanced selection of defenses to use. The community response? OMFG TRENDY U R RUININ THE GAME APPS R USELESS NOW

Retribution was nerfed and balanced because it was doing 4x the DPS of any other Huntress weapons, yet it is still the obvious best Huntress weapon. The community response? OMFG UNCALLED FOR YOU NERFED MY DPS WAY TOO MUCH TIME TO GO FIND AN OP DT AND WAIT UNTIL THEY NERF IT

Assault was balanced because the movement speed was way too high in that you could die multiple times and clear the map still. The community response? OMFG TRENDY ASSAULT IS 2 HARD NOW AND I MIGHT ACTUALLY HAVE TO USE A SECOND HERO TO COMPLETE CONTENT IN A TEAM BASED GAME

It's like if everything isn't broken and handed to you on a silver platter it's a sign trendy is ruining the game.

I wholeheartedly agree. People seem to enjoy playing a game that is too easy or unbalanced in favor of one class. And when it's fixed and they'll actually have to put some more effort in it, they complain.

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This game is:
1. Indie
2. Quickly developed
3. Random
4. Casual

People who expect it to be perfectly balanced at release date are simply wrong. Try Diablo 3 instead, which has been pushed for later release for year and a half now.

Software development is a subject of sience and still one of the most urgent and ustable area of computer engineering. How can you demand full reliability of such game from indie team who put in kids with pink unicorns and lightsabers? Chill out and play what you're given, it's a great game.
A tip: Any software is never finished, it only reaches a point when bugs are not annoying.
A fun fact: It was proven that it's impossible to fully test any program... long before first computer ever was constructed. Get over it!

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Twenty bucks spent leads to Entitlement, which is clearly evident here.

While I agree that some people go a bit overboard with patch rage...


A bit? In terms of this forum, that's kind of an understatement.

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Off all the communities I've been a part off this is by far the most entitled one. Its embarrassing.

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Off all the communities I've been a part off this is by far the most entitled one. Its embarrassing.


Actually, the World of Warcraft forum is worse, but that might be because there are more people.

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Just a point towards beta testers. They are just about the .01%. They can never find bugs the 99.99% can. They are there to test general game mechanics and balancing, but they will never find every bug, that's simply not going to ever happen.

Also know the beta team is new, nothing can be expected to be perfect the first try or second try.

A public testing realm akin to Starcraft 2's, or even Riot's PBE would work best for general mechanics/balancing while a smaller beta team could test new content, that is how I feel the beta should've been handled.

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TL;DR - I'm not going to pay attention to someone who 1, isn't on the beta team and 2, isn't a part of Trendy on what they think are facts involving them and neither should anyone else.


I wish you wouldn't too, but you've already paid too much attention by replying to each of my posts. I got that in your opinion the beta team was bypassed and that Trendy is to blame for the happenings.


Basically would you rather have something which generally works with some minor bugs or all the minor bugs fixed in a broken product?

What about a patch that fixes the existing problems before introducing new content that wasn't properly tested.

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1. Buff squire towers so they're actually used. Don't make app towers so bad that we have to choose between the worse of 2 evils. There's a reason why no one used squire towers and while it was partially because of how awesome app towers were, it was also because of how broken squire towers were. None of this was fixed in their recent buff.

2. If you want to make other guns useful then buff them. The dps finally felt balanced in nightmare. I could attack an ogre and notice the difference in the speed it went down. I could actually play my ranger instead of repair botting with my squire or just buffing towers.

3. Agreed, assault should be a team effort.

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I wish you wouldn't too, but you've already paid too much attention by replying to each of my posts. I got that in your opinion the beta team was bypassed and that Trendy is to blame for the happenings.

I pay attention because someone has to. People thinking like you do spread the wrong information around until it's eventually thought of as fact. No one here knows what goes on inside the beta team unless you're in it. Since I'm quite certain you aren't, nothing you say can be claimed as fact. It's all random thoughts from an expert speculator.

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What about a patch that fixes the existing problems before introducing new content that wasn't properly tested.

This just in, coders and 3d modellers/mappers/level designers are now completely identical and fully interchangeable during any part of the development process.

Oh wait....

What about people commenting on subjects they have some basic knowledge of? Don't get me wrong, Trendy are far from perfect & I personally refuse to buy any more DLC for this game until it's not so horrendously insecure that mere memory editing can modify items/mana to ridiculous levels including in Ranked (aka 'hacking') but you've really no idea how software development works if that's what you expect. Hell we've already had 2 patches in as many weeks which do exactly what you're complaining about!

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I pay attention because someone has to. People thinking like you do spread the wrong information around until it's eventually thought of as fact. No one here knows what goes on inside the beta team unless you're in it. Since I'm quite certain you aren't, nothing you say can be claimed as fact. It's all random thoughts from an expert speculator.

So I guess you're a part of the beta team and feel offended, otherwise everything you said is speculated and therefore - by your logic - just as meaningless. Don't act like you were predestined to protect the forum from criticism, I bet you have better things to do with your time.

This just in, coders and 3d modellers/mappers/level designers are now completely identical and fully interchangeable during any part of the development process.

Oh wait....

What about people commenting on subjects they have some basic knowledge of? Don't get me wrong, Trendy are far from perfect & I personally refuse to buy any more DLC for this game until it's not so horrendously insecure that mere memory editing can modify items/mana to ridiculous levels including in Ranked (aka 'hacking') but you've really no idea how software development works if that's what you expect. Hell we've already had 2 patches in as many weeks which do exactly what you're complaining about!


Again someone who assumes that nobody beside him has any kind of knowledge. I'm a part-time programmer and web developer. I agree that hackers are ruining the game, but Trendy refuses to fix the cause. Third-party anti-cheat solutions can be bypassed and VAC is inefficient because of the delayed bans. But by storing the items in a database and validating everything at certain events they could get rid of a lot of hackers. Sure it won't help unless they're kicked from TrendyNet upon every detection.
I'm not here to tell Trendy how to get things done, because they should know better. I'm just saying they should invest that time and fix something that greatly ruins the game.

About the patches, the main flaws with the game still haven't been fixed, such as hackers, bad progression and balance.

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So I guess you're a part of the beta team and feel offended, otherwise everything you said is speculated and therefore - by your logic - just as meaningless. Don't act like you were predestined to protect the forum from criticism, I bet you have better things to do with your time.


You clearly don't understand the difference between admitting self-ignorance, and speculation.

Fact. You DO NOT KNOW what happens in the beta group if you don't have some kind of access to it, be it participation, a friend, co-worker, etc. What you're doing IS speculation. What he's doing is admitting HE DOES NOT KNOW, and apparently, neither do you, yet you feel just as well to throw blame around and be rude to other people on the forums who have some shred of decency.

You're saying you think you know.

He's saying he knows he doesn't know because the only way to know would be to have insider knowledge.

Unless you have insider knowledge of the group, you don't know.

You can speculate, just remember you could be wrong.

His issue, and my issue, is that you were placing blame on the beta team rather than maturely discussing what might be going on. It is entirely possible the beta team is fully incompetent, however, until you know that as a fact, please refrain from labeling them and showering them with negativity, as with anyone else.

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Again someone who assumes that nobody beside him has any kind of knowledge.


If it looks like a duck & quacks like a duck, chances are, it's a duck.
Or in other words, don't post ignorant statements & people won't assume you're ignorant about the subject. That's basically how this text based medium called 'the internet' works. People read what you post & make assumptions based on those posts.

Also I like the part where you jump on my point about 'hacking' like that's what you've been raging about in this thread when it's the first time you've actually mentioned it.

About the patches, the main flaws with the game still haven't been fixed, such as hackers, bad progression and balance.


Bad progression? Balance? The progression from creating a character to completing all the maps & challenges on Insane is pretty well done most people agree. If like most people you're crying about Nightmare I suggest you look below.

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So I guess you're a part of the beta team and feel offended, otherwise everything you said is speculated and therefore - by your logic - just as meaningless. Don't act like you were predestined to protect the forum from criticism, I bet you have better things to do with your time.



Again someone who assumes that nobody beside him has any kind of knowledge. I'm a part-time programmer and web developer. I agree that hackers are ruining the game, but Trendy refuses to fix the cause. Third-party anti-cheat solutions can be bypassed and VAC is inefficient because of the delayed bans. But by storing the items in a database and validating everything at certain events they could get rid of a lot of hackers. Sure it won't help unless they're kicked from TrendyNet upon every detection.
I'm not here to tell Trendy how to get things done, because they should know better. I'm just saying they should invest that time and fix something that greatly ruins the game.

About the patches, the main flaws with the game still haven't been fixed, such as hackers, bad progression and balance.


/eye squint (Can't tell if serious)

I'm a part-time programmer and web developer.


Riiiight, and I'm President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.

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/eye squint (Can't tell if serious)



Riiiight, and I'm President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.


So your using sarcasm to imply that he is not what he claims to be? You can't do that because your not a part of his life, you don't know; therefore, you can not comment!

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You guys should learn to respect others and their opinions. Blaming me for expressing my opinion in a public forum makes you guys look like a bunch of fanboys that will do anything just to defend Trendy.

This has gone way off-topic, this is my last post for this topic.

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