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DunDef Digest 2/1/2012 Discussion Thread


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Translation - Nightmare was not finished when released .

Are you from the future...because nightmare hasn't been released...people who bought the preoder 4 pack got a free limited beta to nightmare...

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Thanks for the heads up, gang. (15 percent hard cap to Monk Ensnare auras.) I'll add it to the list. .

Can we get a gear respec because its not nice to let us gear for 2% movement then say nah 15% is max...I mean you do realise that you nerfed monk ensnares by 750% right?

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[QUOTE]We understand how frustrating it feels to turn on the game and feel like everything you just worked toward undid itself.[/QUOTE]

No. You don't understand because you never gave us the chance to give you the feedback of the ninja nerf that you so provided on the Apprentice.

There were no balance. It was just a huge nerf bat to the face.

There are two thing happening here: One you listen to your consumers. Two, you abuse them.

You abuse them more than you listen!

Do you know the word "understand"? It quite means literally stand under to feel the dripping of the experiences of the person you are under.

So this ninja nerf to the apprentice really HURT.

YOU DID NO BALANCE or what so ever to compensate us.

You beat the **** out of us, and again, and again, we hear: "I am sorry". Well, screw you!

I am removing my recommendation for this game.

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No. You don't understand because you never gave us the chance to give you the feedback of the ninja nerf that you so provided on the Apprentice.

There were no balance. It was just a huge nerf bat to the face.

There are two thing happening here: One you listen to your consumers. Two, you abuse them.

You abuse them more than you listen!

Do you know the word "understand"? It quite means literally stand under to feel the dripping of the experiences of the person you are under.

So this ninja nerf to the apprentice really HURT.

YOU DID NO BALANCE or what so ever to compensate us.

You beat the **** out of us, and again, and again, we hear: "I am sorry". Well, screw you!

I am removing my recommendation for this game.


lols someone plays an app and is unwilling to try different strategies at all

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No its bull **** putting time and effort into goin through all the hoops just for someone to cut your legs off and tell you to keep running.

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info on mac beta?

hey hitmonchan any info about getting into the Mac beta? I've been waiting for a Mac version since my original
download :)

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the free dlc best apply to nz too :/
yeah i know that sound snarky and all, but hell- after all the nonsense that's gone on over pc vs console/supposed certification processes/lack of information/skyrim lagging like a ******, i've grown a tad impatient.
regardless, thanks for posting a date.

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In honesty, everyone needs to calm down about the nerf. Technically, hardcore mode is still in beta. In a way i kinda approve of the nerf although some information before hand would've been nice. This game I do not think is meant to solo the hardest of everything and the people who can not adjust, shouldn't be playing games that involve strategy. I bet most people who are angry are the ones that were making money off of the game.

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In honesty, everyone needs to calm down about the nerf. Technically, hardcore mode is still in beta. In a way i kinda approve of the nerf although some information before hand would've been nice. This game I do not think is meant to solo the hardest of everything and the people who can not adjust, shouldn't be playing games that involve strategy. I bet most people who are angry are the ones that were making money off of the game.


Why would the people making money be angry about it? More than likely it affected them the least as they were hacking and selling items. I would be really curious about what you mean by that because it makes little sense. They will just keep hacking and selling...if anything their stuff will be in more demand because the game just got harder for a lot of people.

Personally I could care less if the game is in beta and I could care less if things get changed. A lot of people are simply angry that the nerfs were stealth nerfs. Personally I am pretty sick of devs that don't have the balls to publish their changes...they figure they can just sneak them in and no one will notice.

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In honesty, everyone needs to calm down about the nerf. Technically, hardcore mode is still in beta. In a way i kinda approve of the nerf although some information before hand would've been nice. This game I do not think is meant to solo the hardest of everything and the people who can not adjust, shouldn't be playing games that involve strategy. I bet most people who are angry are the ones that were making money off of the game.


To be clear, the nerfs affect more than just nightmare or hardcore. Further, I am one of those people who is trying to solo the game and I am trying to adjust to these changes. In fact, regardless of the changes I have to adjust and adapt because I simply do not have the stats to solo much. Why am I soloing? Because this game has a single-player component and my friends who have the game have stopped playing it in part because of the nerfs. I haven't stopped playing because I still enjoy the game, even though already difficult challenges I barely complete are being made more difficult with no warning, and no apparent reason. The only hope I can have if this blunder is never repeated because Trendy has been forced to realize they need to do better.

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I just want to know,DO TE have ability to ban all hackers?

Or TE only ban hacker when someone reported?

if the answer of Question 1 is correct,I will stay and still play DD
if the answer of Question 2 is correct,I will QUIT now..................

i hate hacker,and hack items,but I think u cant do anything,trendy...

--------------------------------------------------------a disappointed player----

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No its bull **** putting time and effort into goin through all the hoops just for someone to cut your legs off and tell you to keep running.

i don't know what you and the majority of the players issue is as far as being whiny *****es but i wish it would stop. just because your precious app got nerfed your gonna throw a hissy fit till they fix it or stop playing entirely. did you fail to notice the squires towers got buffed substantially? How about giving them a try? As far as not being able to do nightmare as far as you use to since i'm assuming that's part of your whining. Get over it. NM is in beta and things in beta change all the damn time.If you can't accept that you have something in a beta phase then don't play it till its in its final stages months from now. Or be ****ing glad you have access to it early and can get some nice loot in the first place and stop acting like a small child.
Do i think that it was ****ty that these were ninja nerfs? you bet i do. Honestly i think its pathetic, i have a hard time imagining any company could miss such large and game changing nerfs as 80% proj speed and 15% nerfs to towers damage and a nerfed app guardian. Is this any excuse to ***** and whine so terribly because your class got nerfed? no deal with it or don't play. its a game that is subject to balance changes. Do you honestly think for a second that the game was fair for a tower squire? it was basically impossible for a tower squire to accomplish any thing unless his stats were far superior to the apps, in which case why not just give the same gear to an app and have it do better. There trying to balance some things out. did they do it right? who am to say there's still plenty of time that needs to be given before statements like that can be made. in the mean time all you app players that are butt hurt get over it and try different builds and strategies out just like the rest of us are.

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Why is it that the patch notes are only being updated when we are reporting in the stealth nerfs? You have had almost a week to do your own testing (something which seems difficult for you). There are still some pretty big items not in the patch notes. Not all the monk nerfs are documented, the apprentice nerf still needs some more detail, and there were quite a few buffs to the squire that never made it to the notes.

Sorry, but you just don't seem very genuine about your response to this issue.

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Why is it that the patch notes are only being updated when we are reporting in the stealth nerfs? You have had almost a week to do your own testing (something which seems difficult for you). There are still some pretty big items not in the patch notes. Not all the monk nerfs are documented, the apprentice nerf still needs some more detail, and there were quite a few buffs to the squire that never made it to the notes.

Sorry, but you just don't seem very genuine about your response to this issue.


Hey cacodaemon,

I've added an undocumented Squire health buff on Nightmare to the patch list. (I've been informed that the Monk ensnare aura is the only thing that's changed with the Monk.)

hey hitmonchan any info about getting into the Mac beta? I've been waiting for a Mac version since my original
download :)


The Mac beta has not started yet. We'll be sending emails out to the people who get in sometime soon. Hang in there, gang.

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Hey cacodaemon,

I've added an undocumented Squire health buff on Nightmare to the patch list. (I've been informed that the Monk ensnare aura is the only thing that's changed with the Monk.)


If only the ensnare aura was changed then why is the strength drain different?

Disclaimer: These results are based on my experience and my gear. It also represents a very small subset of data and obviously the tests are very limited.

Here are the upgrade numbers
Monk upgrades
7.15a

ensnare
0 upgrade: 12% - 1269 HP
1 upgrade: 12% - 1524 HP
2 upgrade: 12% - 1781 HP
3 upgrade: 12% - 2044 HP
4 upgrade: 12% - 2311 HP
5 upgrade: 12% - 2586 HP


Str Drain
0 upgrade: 18% - 766 HP
1 upgrade: 18% - 920 HP
2 upgrade: 17% - 1075 HP
3 upgrade: 17% - 1233 HP
4 upgrade: 17% - 1393 HP
5 upgrade: 16% - 1557 HP

********

7.16a

ensnare
0 upgrade: 15% - 1269 HP
1 upgrade: 15% - 1524 HP
2 upgrade: 15% - 1781 HP
3 upgrade: 15% - 2044 HP
4 upgrade: 15% - 2311 HP
5 upgrade: 15% - 2586 HP

Str Drain
0 upgrade: 20% - 766 HP
1 upgrade: 20% - 920 HP
2 upgrade: 20% - 1075 HP
3 upgrade: 20% - 1233 HP
4 upgrade: 20% - 1393 HP
5 upgrade: 20% - 1557 HP


Perhaps it was an accident, but the Strength Drain aura was changed, based on these numbers.

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Hey cacodaemon,

I've added an undocumented Squire health buff on Nightmare to the patch list. (I've been informed that the Monk ensnare aura is the only thing that's changed with the Monk.)




The Mac beta has not started yet. We'll be sending emails out to the people who get in sometime soon. Hang in there, gang.




Thx for your effort as I know you are trying to help...but I give up at this point.

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If only the ensnare aura was changed then why is the strength drain different?

Perhaps it was an accident, but the Strength Drain aura was changed, based on these numbers.


If you haven't already (and I'm sure you probably have), post these findings in the PC Patch Notes section, which is where the dev team is mostly likely to see this.


Thx for your effort as I know you are trying to help...but I give up at this point.


Please don't give up. I really appreciate your efforts to help. :^)

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If you haven't already (and I'm sure you probably have), post these findings in the PC Patch Notes section, which is where the dev team is mostly likely to see this.




Please don't give up. I really appreciate your efforts to help. :^)

I personally haven't, because those are cacodaemon's numbers, but he did post them here: Trendy, are we to assume now... post 7. Only the base/no upgrades stats, but even there it can be seen going from 18% of strength to 20%. The upgraded values show it is a hard cap.

Also, cacodaemon, I don't want you to give up either because your data is proving so useful and I too appreciate it. In the future though I think I will take the time to screenshot every build before and after patches, to watch for misreported changes.

I feel sorry for Hitmonchan at this point because he seems to be caught between a rock and a hard place. On one side he must have a developer saying, "No, we didn't change that," and on the other side the community saying, "Here are the numbers proving it was changed." That cannot be an enjoyable place to be stuck.

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Advice to the devs since they don't know what they changed.

Create a set of test toons that can be used for each class (making sure that for each class type they have the same tower stats for comparing towers between the two patch versions.)

Log into every class except hunters using the 7.15a build. Build one of each tower on normal and Nightmare. Note the stats. Upgrade tower. Repeat process of logging until tower is maxed.

Optional, verify DPS on target dummies


Log into every class except hunters using the 7.16a build. Build one of each tower on normal and Nightmare. Note the stats. Upgrade tower. Repeat process of logging until tower is maxed.

Optional, verify DPS on target dummies

Compare results, huddle, update patch notes.

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I'm just playing devils advocate now but,

If the patch was focused on the barbarian, assault missions, and folders, wouldn't their focus be on there rather then app towers?


i think its unlikely that all these changes would have just slipped by.
but lets assume they did. then mind to explain why retribution was nerfed by ~48% in 7.16b? did no one notice how powerfull this weapon was?

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If only the ensnare aura was changed then why is the strength drain different?



Perhaps it was an accident, but the Strength Drain aura was changed, based on these numbers.


And this is a perfect example why I have given up on this. Reported in multiple places on the forums...yet still nothing in the notes. So while it is bad enough things are not getting in the patch notes at patch time...they don't make it into the notes when we bring up the issue.

So thanks to the devs for not doing their jobs.

After yesterdays patch I took a little looksie at Hunters...and the first trap I looked at had changes not in the notes...and no, I won't be reporting them.

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