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I'm seeing a list of fixes that are welcome, while we wait for official word on the bigger things.


It's rather entertaining that the Trendy defenders are afraid to even mention the issue by it's real name. I'll give you a hint, it's the thing that they said they would never do "again".

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You don't know the truth. Making assumptions of the worst just brings more negativity to the forum. Could have just been a mistake in the file sent to Valve for patching and are working to correct it? Who knows (but them). Until we find out what happened, play with what features you're capable of I spose. I was doing insane Assaults because NM is too damn hard lol. The unicorns from it aren't 200^, but they aren't terrible at around 100^ :P I for one love my pooonies.


Dude cut it out already, ur kissing so much @ss in every post u made so far,

Is your Fanboism level really this high or are you just that ignorant? You are even worse then the people who really believe MJ didn't touch little kids.

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I applaud them for their first hotfix to address game breaking issues but at the same time I wish they would at least address the community by saying "This is the first of multiple hotfixes to address issues of patch 7.XX". Instead of avoiding the 200lb gorilla in the room they at least tell us they are working on it.

__________________________________________
How to release new patches 101:
- full patch notes
- no ninja nerfes
- proper, thorough beta testing
- proper, thorough beta testing
- proper, thorough beta testing
- proper, thorough beta testing (no, not by your public community)
- no release dates if you can't keep your word
- use of common sense

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Am I crazy or did they also change the loot tables for chest drops in NM? I can't farm Spires for mana anymore and well I don't know how to get gear to do the higher level challenges anymore. I feel loot progression is seriously off at this point.

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yeah sure. way to much effort to post: "sry guys there was a hickup with the pacht. working on it"
cant expect that can we?

If only the console could get a patch.

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It's rather entertaining that the Trendy defenders are afraid to even mention the issue by it's real name. I'll give you a hint, it's the thing that they said they would never do "again".


Don't put me in a box and don't assume things on me, please.

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It's a bit annoying to be that this thread went down into such a b***hing fest. Janitorus called for a CONSTRUCTIVE and CIVIL conversation of the patch in the hopes that Trendy might see you and to occupy the suggestions forum, and then everyone turns it into a mass of fanboyism, jokes, and flames against each other. Just STOP. If you can't make a civil comment about the patch then don't post. Simple as that.

Now, I'll throw my two cents in to stay on topic. Now, I only have one 74, and he hasn't tried much of Nightmare, but I can understand all the little stealth nerfs could get under everyone's skin, considering the nerf on App towers I've seen people mention yes, that changes the game. It changes how Nightmare will be played, which should NOT be solo.

Yes, I completely agree Trendy needs to address these stealth nerfs, the problem is probably with their NDA, patch notes may fall under their NDA, and they cant break that under ANY circumstance other than the NDA being lifted by time or agreement. Or that's how it would work as a normal contract.

And lastly, perhaps Trendy wanted towers OTHER than App with a monk aura or two MAYBE to be viable. Because any NM game I get into I'm either told to do nothing on my monk or to throw up a Drain or Slow aura and then all I see are App towers. Yes, a stealth nerf wasn't the way to do it, and yes there needed to probably be a much longer beta on that particular change, but I think it's for the better, considering I'm pretty sure NM wasn't meant for solo anyway. (If this last one sounded a little rage induced forgive me, it's my writing style not my actual mood :D )

I want you people to correct and add things to these statements, constructively and civilly, not a whole flame attack on "STFU YOU KNOW NOTHING". I established that at the start.

If we don't pull this into a nice civil conversation and call to action then it'll probably be locked and ignored. We don't want that, especially you hardcore NMers who love the game as much as anyone, or more.

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Not true. Could have been a typing error, lack of internal communication, wrong files, who knows. You can't just assume Trendy's trying to screw everyone over. What do they accomplish by doing that?


If it were an error, there would have been an announcement with an appology for inconvenience and an hastily coming hot-fix. Have you seen one?

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Monk auras got nerfed too. Ensanes are now capped at 15% no matter how much attack pow you invest in. Not a huge deal but another undocumented change.

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I am making big assumptions? The excuses that you gave are things a college student or garage programmer might give. They are not any excuses that a software development team can plausibly give.

I gave you industry standard practices. The software development process is standard across the board with only minor differeneces between developers. Either TE follows the industry standards or they don't. If they don't, that explains a lot.
someone woke up on wrong side of the bed >_> its called Indy for a reason. While I understand its not a good excuse it does stand to reason that they don't have the full reasources a full blow company does nor are they setup like one.

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someone woke up on wrong side of the bed >_> its called Indy for a reason. While I understand its not a good excuse it does stand to reason that they don't have the full reasources a full blow company does nor are they setup like one.


Indy just means independant. It means they are not part of any of the big game developers. That does not mean they should do things half-assed or skip critical steps like documentation. When people take short cuts the end product suffers.

Following software development best practices has nothing to do with how big or small of an organization you have. It means having a well defined process for developing your product. One person can follow the entire process properly and create a good product with proper documentation. Release notes is a very important part of that documentation.

The ONLY excuse for any undocumented changes is if they are an unintended bug. If that is the case, they need to acknowledge the fact and fix it in the next patch. Anything else is either sloppy work or questionable business practices.

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Dude cut it out already, ur kissing so much @ss in every post u made so far,

Is your Fanboism level really this high or are you just that ignorant? You are even worse then the people who really believe MJ didn't touch little kids.

You guys don't seem to understand the difference between me and you. While Trendy wrongs you, you guys lash out into a rage. While Trendy wrongs me, I make an attempt to be constructive. Suddenly I'm called a fanboy because of that. I guess not giving into the bandwagon effects makes me an outcast because I won't act like the cavemen a lot of people are acting like. Keep calling me a fanboy. There is only one company I could ever be considered a Fanboy over and that would be Maxis pre-EA. I'd have stood by them through anything because they made some of the most epic games evar. Don't mistakes my optimism and hope for being a fanboy for Trendy. I can just as easily leave this game as I have others. I just want it to be a good game so I hope for the best. Excuse me for trying to encourage people to not be such *******s on the forum. I guess that's a bad thing in todays time.

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You guys don't seem to understand the difference between me and you. While Trendy wrongs you, you guys lash out into a rage. While Trendy wrongs me, I make an attempt to be constructive. Suddenly I'm called a fanboy because of that. I guess not giving into the bandwagon effects makes me an outcast because I won't act like the cavemen a lot of people are acting like. Keep calling me a fanboy. There is only one company I could ever be considered a Fanboy over and that would be Maxis pre-EA. I'd have stood by them through anything because they made some of the most epic games evar. Don't mistakes my optimism and hope for being a fanboy for Trendy. I can just as easily leave this game as I have others. I just want it to be a good game so I hope for the best. Excuse me for trying to encourage people to not be such *******s on the forum. I guess that's a bad thing in todays time.


You hang in the console area defending this game all day yet you are a pc gamer..... there is no denying Fanboyism.....

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You hang in the console area defending this game all day yet you are a pc gamer..... there is no denying Fanboyism.....

Just because someone plays console doesn't mean they can be any less ignorant or stupid than a PC player. Funny thing was I was actually linked to that thread from the PC section. I don't make a point to going in there to defend Trendy to be a fanboy. You're just mad mang. Someone has a better outlook on this game than you and it makes you maaaaaaaad so you resort to namecalling tactics. Doesn't hurt me. I probably enjoy this game more than you do too because of it.

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If trendy hasn't spoken about it, it's probably something unintentional. I wouldn't be surprised if they're trying to pinpoint the problem and than fix it.

Or it could be poor documentation.

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People are only raging an epic amount because the Nerf was of epic proportions. Like Sherri said earlier "people feel like the game they paid for was stolen from them and replaced with a brick, what are you going to do with a single 30$ brick".

I'm not saying raging like that is good our bad I'm just saying it's basic cause and effect.

No comment from me on fan boy status our personal jabs, that's not how I do things.

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They listed the Apprentice Nerfs:

*Apprentice Towers Exponential Damage Ramp reduced by 15%
*All-around 5% nerf to Hero Damage on NM (This is the reason why people think that Squire Melee Weapons swing slower on NM.)
*Reduced all Speed-of-Projectile Bonuses on NM around 80%
*Reduced Apprentice Guardian damage by 25 percent

Was probably just forgotten in the patch notes. Happened before in games, will probably happen again. Just whomever is in charge of documentation will have to be more thorough with their patch notes.

I'm kind of surprised this still happens though. I go to school for game design and we're constantly pestered about documentation. I can't blame who's ever in charge of that though, that work can get pretty monotonous pretty quickly.

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Was probably just forgotten in the patch notes. Happened before in games, will probably happen again. Just whomever is in charge of documentation will have to be more thorough with their patch notes.


That's what a "stealth nerf" or "ninja nerf" is.

We had no idea it was coming, had no ability to go "hey, wait a minute" and then get hit with it and don't see evidence that it was actually intended until a day later.

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Looks like that clears things up quite a bit. If anyone forgot to add those to the patch notes, lesson learned I guess. And for us it means that next time we (including myself) need to try and keep our cool.

I still say we [[1122,hashtags]] the suggestions forum! :skeleton:


Also make sure you check out the DunDef Digest of 2/1/12. Thanks for the explanation!

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