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App guardian got nerfed hard but the bug with them buffing stuff that dont do dmg(like magic blockade or enrage aura) is still there

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App guardian got nerfed hard but the bug with them buffing stuff that dont do dmg(like magic blockade or enrage aura) is still there

Enrage? my enrage aura is 93% with or without an app guardian...

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I can out run my staffs projectiles. This patch is a train wreck, it's like they wanted half of their user base to get pissed off and quit. I really have no motivation to keep playing. It was a fun 300+ hours.

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OK, this is getting really stupid. I thought trendy learned a lesson with the rampant no QA/QC patching in December and took there time with this one. I am seeing about a 60% REDUCTION in lightning tower damage. we need to get an official response on this ASAP. If this is intended, then why was it NOT in the patch notes???


Too frustrated to talk atm, this game has SOOOOO much potential.


Yeah This game made me become a forum troll/poster which I never ever have been, in my 10+ years of avid gaming. After playing this game for lots of hours, surfing forums, you notice Trendy's "trend" of this kind of thing. It's ok, tomorrow someone will have beaten Mix mode misty, and all that gear is going to have 30% more stats to make up for it and as they slowly leak the armor out, we will be able to do it too , eventually.

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Yeah This game made me become a forum troll/poster which I never ever have been, in my 10+ years of avid gaming.

Sadly I'm slowly getting there too.

Steam stats:
Dungeon Defenders
17.4 hrs / 731.5 hrs

Take into account I don't open AFK shop too often. At most two hours of that in there. I can't even touch the spider boss on solo, and that's how I mostly play.
This made me stop playing (pretty much) and laugh at the ninjanerfs in that game. Not like it's the first time. Really, TE, you think people won't notice? No, REALLY? REALLY?!

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Enrage? my enrage aura is 93% with or without an app guardian...


Exactly, that's why is a waste when the app guardian buffs an enrage aura

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Exactly, that's why is a waste when the app guardian buffs an enrage aura

Unless TE implements some kind of a guardian-configuration-menu, removing any kind of aura/trap/tower/whatever from the list AI considers needs buffing is not a good idea. I'd agree with magic blockades, at least for monk/app/hunt guardian, yeah, cause these by definition can't gain anything (and there are other examples). But I'm fairly sure some people still benefit from buffing enrage auras with their apprs.

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My Magic Missles dropped from 19 k DPS down to 11 k..... I have trouble even farming NM HC Misty now, I'm really upset as I had just begun to be able to reliably farm it. Trendy needs to revert asap, this nerf is way too hard.

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I think I will be evaluating the game as my favorite now........

They just raped my favorite class. (Apprentice).

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Any time I feel like I'm getting close to endgame Trendy be nerfin my *** :/

Not only that, they don't bother to even put it in the patch notes either. Way to be transparent guyz.


+1 (some text cuz reply is too short)

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I haven't really noticed a nerf to the towers themselves. Apprentice guardian however took a large, undocumented nerf. At 40 boost, an apprentice guardian used to quadruple tower damage. Now a 40 boost guardian increases damage by 2.8x.

That's a pretty big difference. The hardest content in the game, nightmare survival, was already very challenging with the 4x guardians. Would love to hear a response from Trendy on this. You tuned your end game content for 4x app guardians, it was already extremely difficult. I get that you probably wanted to bring apprentice more in line with huntress guardians, but how do you justify this at this point? You've essentially just retuned already very difficult content.

Incidentally, huntress is still 3x tower speed. So huntress is now better than apprentice. Why was this done? Personally I feel entitled to some sort of explanation.

Edit: Can anyone provide legitimate documentation of a nerf to the towers themselves? I'm seeing a lot of responses with estimates, many of which are clearly exaggerations.

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I haven't really noticed a nerf to the towers themselves. Apprentice guardian however took a large, undocumented nerf. At 40 boost, an apprentice guardian used to quadruple tower damage. Now a 40 boost guardian increases damage by 2.8x.

That's a pretty big difference. The hardest content in the game, nightmare survival, was already very challenging with the 4x guardians. Would love to hear a response from Trendy on this. You tuned your end game content for 4x app guardians, it was already extremely difficult. I get that you probably wanted to bring apprentice more in line with huntress guardians, but how do you justify this at this point? You've essentially just retuned already very difficult content.

Incidentally, huntress is still 3x tower speed. So huntress is now better than apprentice. Why was this done? Personally I feel entitled to some sort of explanation.

Edit: Can anyone provide legitimate documentation of a nerf to the towers themselves? I'm seeing a lot of responses with estimates, many of which are clearly exaggerations.


Here's a spreadsheet from a guy who exported his app to open right before patch and then compared tower stats pre and post patch

http://i.imgur.com/BD7kb.png

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Edit: Can anyone provide legitimate documentation of a nerf to the towers themselves? I'm seeing a lot of responses with estimates, many of which are clearly exaggerations.


The problem is I think the entire formula has changed so tower damage now scales differently to your stats. I clearly remember 71k dps at one point on my lightning tower with apprentice guardian (unsure if triple stared) and it is currently at 22k triple stared. That is much larger than the 54% gap as indicated on the image above.

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Gotta say trendy this apprentice nerf is pretty damn lame. The apprentice is frankly the mainstay of a good defense. You rely on his structures to be a reliable source of protection while your attention is elsewhere.

It's pretty unfair to the people that have played as the aprentice since day 1 for them to develop their characters only for them now to be slapped round the chops with a pretty rubbish tower nerf that wasn't even hinted at in the patct notes. Honestly as people have mentioned if you didn't want to mention these changes in the patch notes, you really shouldn't make them. I think the apprentice needs to be buffed back up again otherwise he is just going to end up being a wet blanket that no one will be hugely amazed with what he is able to do.

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The 7.16 patch notes have been updated with the nerf in it:
*Apprentice Towers Exponential Damage Ramp reduced by 15%

This explains why the hit I've taken is considerably less than those some of you have taken; I have such low stats that 15% isn't a huge hit. Still, it will make it harder to improve my stats because I won't be able to make it as far.
I am curious about what prompted this though. There's nothing wrong with one character being best at tower damage.

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Stats mean LESS as you level, making progression infinitely more difficult.

Why not just make it so you cannot beat anything solo ever trendy? make this a true MMO with "parties" and dedicated roles?

Then again, 17 people that can barely wipe their collective asses isn't doing much to win any more trust with their playerbase.

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This is what i say:

Huntress role is well defined, i can stealth and easily pick up items, also it has awesome dps

Monk role is pretty strong, auras are as needed as towers and its boost skills are a must for boss maps

Squire as DPS role is the only class capable to stand against bosses on NM and tank them

Apprentice role was supposed to be the tower builder and keeper, if squire towers are just better than apprentice towers then there's no role for a mage in a group. Tower squires will have the best towers plus the ability to stay alive against spiders, ninjas and bosses where the apprentice just cant. So, if apprentice towers got nerfed to give room to squire towers, what is the desired role of a apprentice?. To me it doesnt matter if app or squire is the way to go cause i have every class to 74 so all i need to do is switch my gear from one toon to the other, i'm just wondering in what situation will an apprentice be really needed. Also... if Trendy wanted to make squire towers viable, they should of just buffed the squire towers instead of nerfing apprentice's... and the "buff" squire towers got is not enough to make them viable still, harpoon towers still miss 70% of their shots agaisnt wyverns and they still cost way too much DU

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for example my tower per hit before are 19,888 now it's 10,888 this is not 15%. Apprentice could be useless in nightmare wave with this low stats. It's with my pet. So please players need up for towers. Before update it's perfect, show knight towers they are overbuffed so buf it for apprentice.

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Remember, these towers are NOT upgraded, so the 15% nerf "Should" not be applied, nor was there any mention in the patch notes about a nerf to attack rates.

And so, here is the truth revealed!

Cacodaeman:

http://forums.trendyent.com/showthread.php?44483-Trendy-are-we-to-assume-now...&p=326496[[1126,hashtags]]

Soooooooooo....I use Windows Home server at home and it does a backup of my PC every day. Lovely. I rolled my client back to 7.15a and ran some tests that I saw another poster on the forums ran.

Here they are. The tests were done without upgrading any of the towers. For the tests I dropped the tower next to the dummy, waited for 3 minutes, and recorded the numbers. Then as a second test I deleted the first tower and dropped two of the same tower to see how multiple tower damage was scaling. The first group represents 7.15a and the second 7.16a. After looking at the numbers...I have to question the honestly of what we are being told here. I ran the test with a giraffe pet, not an apprentice pet.

Apprentice Stats
tower attack: 1335
Tower Health: 414
Tower AOE: 520
Tower att rt: 902
*************************************************

7.15a

MM
Health: 7538
attack range: 22.61
attack dam: 3287
attack rate: 0.07
single tower DPS 23,009
dual tower DPS 46,018

FT
Health: 9125
attack range: 29.57
attack dam: 9727
attack rate: .21
single tower DPS 34,044
dual tower DPS 68,089

LT
Health: 4959
attack range: 20.23
Max chain: 53
Max Chain Len: 50.58
attack dam: 5611
attack dur: 26.38
single tower DPS 11,106
dual tower DPS 22,212

Deadly strike
Health: 3174
attack range: 40.69
attack dam: 34,045
attack rate: 0.86
single tower DPS 34,045
dual tower DPS 68,090

Magic blockade
health: 9021


***********************************************


7.16a

MM
Health: 7538
attack range: 22.61
attack dam: 2652
attack rate: 0.08
single tower DPS 14,586
dual tower DPS 29,172

FT
Health: 9125
attack range: 29.57
attack dam: 9727
attack rate: .23
single tower DPS 34,044
dual tower DPS 63,225


LT
Health: 4959
attack range: 17.31
Max chain: 40
Max Chain Len: 43.28
attack dam: 3813
attack dur: 23.49
single tower DPS 7,548
dual tower DPS 15,096

Deadly strike
Health: 3174
attack range: 40.69
attack dam: 34,045
attack rate: 0.86
single tower DPS 34,045
dual tower DPS 68,090

Magic blockade
health: 9021

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FT
Health: 9125
attack range: 29.57
attack dam: 9727
attack rate: .21
single tower DPS 34,044
dual tower DPS 68,089

***********************************************


7.16a

FT
Health: 9125
attack range: 29.57
attack dam: 9727
attack rate: .23
single tower DPS 34,044
dual tower DPS 63,225


that makes no sense :O

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I've played with this a lot over the past few days, tried different strats, and it basically is blocking our progression. I play with a normal group of family members with midtier gear (mostly 80-120ish on armor up to 150 or so on weapons). We hadn't yet beat spider queen on Nightmare (it was pretty damn hard actually, but we were making progress) to unlock survival. Tonight we couldn't even get to spider queen. My towers were just not hurting ogres at all and we were getting continually webbed due to spiders all over from the LT nerf (this was probably the worst). I have to see it is pretty much disheartening as the only way we can improve our gear at this point is misty survival so there is little to no chance of actually beating the queen.

Also, a bug if anyone from Trendy happens to read this. When you patched in trophies for NM I got the one for nightmare spider kill even though I don't have the achievement.

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