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Monks on Nightmare


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So I was discussing this with a fellow Defender yesterday: he says once you play Nightmare, a melee Monk becomes useless because he will constantly get killed by those spiders. Unless you can one-shot them (which would require a really powerful weapon) or have a crazy amount of health, the Monk is pointless.
Well that's what he says.

I haven't tried a lot of Nightmare so far, but is there any truth in this? I currently have an Ogre Party Hat that I'm upgrading (has 120 upgrade levels). Assuming I fully upgrade it, will a melee Monk be able to stand up for himself on Nightmare? I don't want to be relying only on Hunter/Ranger + Blasticus for this... I love playing with the Monk.

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Player Damage gets reduced by alot in Nightmare, as resistances so your hero will pretty much die rather quickly.
I don't know about the exact numbers though.

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Player Damage gets reduced by alot in Nightmare, as resistances so your hero will pretty much die rather quickly.
I don't know about the exact numbers though.


IT was posted recently in a different thread forgot where, player damage in NM is 18% of what it is in normal difficulty. It will mostly balance out but you will need a decent weapon upgraded to 150ish to feel normal again. FYI - Endless spires on NM is excellent to farm for money and gear.

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That's... pretty stupid. So you're forced to switch to Ranged? Or to totally switch to Apprentice or Hunter?
Ugh they should try and encourage the brave melee fighters in this game :)

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Lots of people share your opinion, as do I. NM is nothing else then towers. But oh well, I'm glad this game exists.

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Well, I got an aura-spec'ed Monk and a Melee DPS spec'ed one. I'm sure my aura-monk will have his use if I continue upgrading him like I am now, but it would be pretty sad to see my beloved DPS monk become totally worthless.

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So what I could do, is give my Monk a new weapon and invest in Ranged. And if I keep my melee weapon, I can equip that for Insane runs.
Pretty sad because I loved slicing things up, but ehh... Trendy doesn't like melee Monks apparently :(

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Ranged is definitely the way to go as a monk. Squires are the only melee I'd consider in NM HC.


We had a ninja stuck in the southern building in NM HC Misty Survival. I was on my countess for easier repair duties. I went up to finish him off (last mob on map) and he basically 1 shot me. 90 percent physical resist and 60+ on all others 70k HP

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IT was posted recently in a different thread forgot where, player damage in NM is 18% of what it is in normal difficulty. It will mostly balance out but you will need a decent weapon upgraded to 150ish to feel normal again. FYI - Endless spires on NM is excellent to farm for money and gear.


My Adept does 56k damage on the tavern dummy, but only does 8k damage when in nightmare. That's quite a bit more then 18% >_>.

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So I was discussing this with a fellow Defender yesterday: he says once you play Nightmare, a melee Monk becomes useless because he will constantly get killed by those spiders. Unless you can one-shot them (which would require a really powerful weapon) or have a crazy amount of health, the Monk is pointless.
Well that's what he says.

I haven't tried a lot of Nightmare so far, but is there any truth in this?


this is not about DD this happens in ANY GAME
in any game of the past or the future being melee is useless compared to being ranged for dealing dmg

also if the same char can both chose to deal dmg melee or ranged its quite stupid to chosee melee

just change weapon and you are fine

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this is not about DD this happens in ANY GAME
in any game of the past or the future being melee is useless compared to being ranged for dealing dmg

also if the same char can both chose to deal dmg melee or ranged its quite stupid to chosee melee

just change weapon and you are fine


Not true, Melee is much better for crowd control. One attack can take out 30 enemies with a big weapon, but if you were to use ranged, you would have to kill them one by one. However, when it comes do doing massive DPS on one enemy, ranged is much better then melee, as you can run and shoot, as well as hit more then once, provided you have extra projectiles.

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My Adept does 56k damage on the tavern dummy, but only does 8k damage when in nightmare. That's quite a bit more then 18% >_>.


That would be 14%... guessing that your numbers are not exactly 56k and exactly 8k ... it's probably 18%.

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We had a ninja stuck in the southern building in NM HC Misty Survival. I was on my countess for easier repair duties. I went up to finish him off (last mob on map) and he basically 1 shot me. 90 percent physical resist and 60+ on all others 70k HP


Never saw a ninja who do more than 70k dmg Oo lol, i have got maybe ~80% basic resis, and 60% on the rest, 23k hp, and a ninja on nm needs 3-4hits to kill me.


I am working on a Melee Monk, who oneshot these 120hp ninjas. It will be hard and i need epic gear, but when i hit, i ll post ^^

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They have been buffind range monks if you guys have been paying attention to the patches, I think its to compensate for this. ranged monks should be doing better dps than melee ones now. if you want to use a melee monk just stick to non-spider missions / not nightmare mode lol :P

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I can tell you so far that we have tried to invite so many monks and squires to play with us, but they just don't messure up on Mist. We'd kill to have a sick caster monk for boosts tho.

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Never saw a ninja who do more than 70k dmg Oo lol, i have got maybe ~80% basic resis, and 60% on the rest, 23k hp, and a ninja on nm needs 3-4hits to kill me.


Their damage increases each wave of survival. Going toe to toe with them consistently just isn't going to happen.

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^Plus elemental monsters do twice their dmg (one generic, one elemental).

As for monks, if you're doing anything more than simply killing off spiders, ranged would be the better dps. However, just to put it into perspective for you, here are some comparisons between monk and the other classes: **just a note, the following is from my own experience with the classes, and may be different for you.

Melee: Assuming you're using Hero Boost
-Squire with blood rage would do more DPS but with a lot less survivability due to the huge resistance penalty for blood rage, this is however somehow remedied by having the highest HP in game.

-Countess would do just as much DPS with Call to Arms but the additional resistances she gains + her (way) bigger HP pool gives her a lot more survivability than monks.

Ranged: Assuming Hero Boost again
-With similar HP modifiers, Ranger has much less dps with single targets (with the same gears and similar tier weapons, my monk does 2.5m while ranger does 1.5~1.7m without piercing spreadshot), but has the edge when it comes to his piercing weapons and ability, making them more practical in NM where you're trying to kill off as many creeps as possible in as little time as possible. Another disadvantage of ranged monk is that you have to be close to the targets to deal your max potential dmg, which kinda nullifies the whole point of being ranged.

-Huntress: see above, but with less HP than the monk.

-Apprentice: Less dps with auto-fire, but will gain the active hero boost on towers if he has built them, and will be able to build in emergencies where towers break. If you're manually attacking or using macros to charge up your shots, his dps is not so much lower. However, his low HP makes surviving high waves a challenge even with high resists.

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Lots of people share your opinion, as do I. NM is nothing else then towers. But oh well, I'm glad this game exists.


Honestly, this is how it should be, as the game is advertised as a tower defense...

That being said, this means that you need fully dedicated DPS for it to be effective. Monk just isn't as good at it even on non-nightmare IMO. I highly value monk for the auras and have always treated it as more of a support class for this reason (and their abilities reinforce this.)

I honestly have no qualms about melee monk not being very effective on NM. It doesn't affect me for how I use monk. If I want to DPS, I'll use squire (which can survive a bit better against spiders)

You guys also need to remember that the spiders will be diluted with other enemies (which may suck in other ways, but it does mean fewer spiders).

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[QUOTE]in any game of the past or the future being melee is useless compared to being ranged for dealing dmg[/QUOTE]There is a game where the reverse is true. It's called Savage 2, and it's a unique, genre-blending game that combines some rpg, F/TPS, RTS and other elements into a pretty challenging MOBA-ish game.

http://savage2.com/en/main.php

You may not have heard of it or S2 Games, but they also made Heroes of Newerth, which is similar to DotA or League of Legends. Give it a try. The game is melee centric- Ranged damage exists, but it is not very strong and is designed to be used only to pick off players that run away at low health, or to force enemies to engage you. Very rarely do you kill someone from full health to none with only a ranged weapon.

If that sounds appealing to you, give it a try. It has a pretty steep learning curve, but it's pretty satisfying once you get the hang of it.

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I wouldn't be surprised if at some point they did a new nightmare mode that nerfed towers and buffed players. I believe Trendy would agree that we should wait until they get all of the new DLC out.

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What saves the squire is block. I can tank ogre while the towers behind me do the damage.
You can switch between DPS and tank pretty easily.
The monk has no way to protect himself in melee, and his skills won't help to knockback enemies around him.
You should play him more like a support (and I think that's what Trendy had in mind).
Stay behind towers, boost them, and clear spiders. Just like the App in fact, after building your auras, you can maintain your layout.

Each class kinda have a specific role in NM IMO.
App is the builder, Huntress the moveable tower, Squire the moveable wall, and the Monk the support/booster.
If you play them like that, you can do everything.

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