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Trendy, Scrap DD and Make DD2 an October 2012 Release


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During summer 2011, which winter blockbuster titles were on your radar? Arkham City? Skyrim?

At the time, DD wasn't even on the map for me. Honestly, it was a friend that introduced me to DD. I was hesitant at first, but figured I'd give it a shot. It's throwaway title that I'll probably play for a few hours...

....800 hours later, I was hooked. The game was truly refreshing. It became my most played game of 2011 and I had a blast with it.

With all that said, it's time to bury Dungeon Defenders and release DD2 for an October 2012 release.

Why release a DD2....

- You now have a better idea on how to implement balance. The tangled web of balance in DD is unfriendly and poorly implemented.

- Honestly, The hacking in DD right now is inexcusable especially since the game is built around a Diablo loot mentality. You need to start fresh. Create a better server setup so item hacking aps are harder to use in the game. It's so simple to hack at the moment its ridiculous.

NOTE: These two issues alone should be enough to justify a new release. What is happening with DD now is the equivalent to muddying up a painting. You just continue to add more and more slop to cover mistakes that just becomes more unpleasant to look at, or in DD's case play.

- No more PVP. Add more PVE maps instead. PVP was a nice attempt but unless you start using dedicated servers, there is no point in even wasting resources with this mode.

- Wearable armor, Customization is huge with these types of games. You should take the time and implement armor that updates the heroes look in real time.

- Winnable costumes, different than armor, this would be worn over the armor you have equipped.

- More weapons! You'll be able to reuse weps from DD as well as expand the roster.

- Port over all maps and reuse assets to create more interesting maps.

- Spend time to fix the many errors that people repeatedly keep dealing with. One major one would be the deletion of all heroes glitch.

- You already have a library of weps, pets, and map assets. Bring them into DD2 and design more.

Starting fresh and building upon the core fundamentals is honestly the only way to go in my opinion. I have stopped playing the game for a few weeks now and feel this is the only legitimate solution to fixing the many issues that are in DD. The game was great; it still can be great if you just start fresh.

Make it happen Trendy.

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I agree. The game has been destroyed in a very short time by these patches from developers that have no idea what they're doing. The game could be fixed with a lot of work, but I don't see that happening with how confused Trendy is on what they're doing with their game. I no longer play now that challenge very rarely ever equals reward, the path to progress through this game is a mess, and there is no longer almost any strategy required.

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While I agree that DD is off the track... lets not pull a valve here and make everyone repay for what they were told they'd get when buying the orignal.. what you're suggesting is for trendy to just give up and instead of improve what theyve got, release and resell what they already have... all the changes you just suggested don't require a new game, they require a fresh start, but christ you may aswell ask for them to go "oops all our servers crashed and your chars are gone, were gonna stoneage this and try again"

lets try to be a little more rational than "oh hey trendy this sucks, dont bother improving it just start over"

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As much as I love Dungeon Defenders and enjoyed (and still enjoy) playing it, I think you're spot on with what you said and I agree that the game design is fundamentally flawed. I think that a clean slate is needed in made in order to fix these problems. I think Trendy have been fairly successful with Dungeon Defenders and that we're likely to see a DD2 within the next 12-18 months. I wouldn't be suprised if it were already in design, or even development phase. Will we see it by the end of the year? I'm thinking 2013 is probably more realistic.

[QUOTE]You now have a better idea on how to implement balance. The tangled web of balance in DD is unfriendly and poorly implemented. [/QUOTE]

^This. No more bandaging up design errors or attempts to implement quick fixes around broken fundamental game elements. A new game utilising what Trendy has learnt with a focus on the core game experience. Bring the game back it's basics. I'd love this game to be more dynamic with the ability for the game to change as you're playing forcing players to work together and rethink their strategies. Less "character with highest stats place towers here every game" and more "players need to quickly adapt to the game and make use of what they have".

[QUOTE]Honestly, The hacking in DD right now is inexcusable especially since the game is built around a Diablo loot mentality. You need to start fresh and create a better server setup so item hacking aps are harder to use in the game. It's so simple to hack at the moment its ridiculous. [/QUOTE]
In order for this game to work online I think dedicated servers are a must. Not only will this reduce hacking but will help with things such as 24/7 player stores, the ability to drop in and out of your own game, hosts quitting will not dissolve a public game, etc.

[QUOTE]More weapons! You'll be able to reuse weps from DD as well as expand the roster. [/QUOTE]
One thing I'd love to see is more uniqueness to the weapons. We've seen this to an extent with things such as attack speed, attack reach, piercing, etc. Possibly even extra attributes such as freeze or stun that help differentiate weapons further as well as allowing for more situation-specific weapons.

Another thing I think that could be further emphasised are traps that interact with the environment. Thing's like the spinning blockade do this to an extent, but games like "Orcs must die" have taken it a step further. I'd love to see more traps and defenses that revolve around forcing creatures into positions/areas, breaking up groups or moving creatures into groups. If the maps and the traps are designed well, this could really help broaden the strategies available to the game. Right now most of the traps are pretty static, e.g. Projectile hits for x damage, area defense applies y attribute.

Also, I really hope that the game has less bugs, glitches and crashes! I haven't seen a game in quite a while that's had so many stability problems. While most of these have been sorted out now, if we can avoid them in the sequel that would be great! Bring on DD2!

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all the changes you just suggested don't require a new game, they require a fresh start, but christ you may aswell ask for them to go "oops all our servers crashed and your chars are gone, were gonna stoneage this and try again"

lets try to be a little more rational than "oh hey trendy this sucks, dont bother improving it just start over"


Going to highlight this.

Edit: I bring this to the first page, so hopefully more will read

Many player will agree with you for one reason:
You present an issue, and provide only one way of solving it, and not list all the other possible alternatives. Of course they will agree with you.

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Fully agree, and this is from a guy that bought more than 1 copy of DD.

They also need to introduce randomization in maps. Here is what I mean:

Trendy makes 5 - 10 versions of the same map. Each with different pathways, enemy spawn points, etc... Every time a player plays a game there will be a roll in which pathways, spawn points will be used. That way there are multiple possibilities on how the map will be layed out and you can't use the exact same strategy all the time.

This will, IMO, make the game more about TD than loot.

They also need to remove survival.

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During summer 2011, what winter blockbuster titles were on your radar? Arkham City? Skyrim?

At the time, DD wasn't even on the map for me. Honestly, it was a friend that introduced me to DD. I was hesitant at first, but figured I'd give it a shot. It's throwaway title that I'll probably play for a few hours...

....800 hours later, I was hooked. The game was truly refreshing. It became my most played game of 2011 and I had a blast with it.

With all that said, it's time to bury Dungeon Defenders and release DD2 for an October 2012 release.

Why release a DD2....

- You now have a better idea on how to implement balance. The tangled web of balance in DD is unfriendly and poorly implemented.

- Honestly, The hacking in DD right now is inexcusable especially since the game is built around a Diablo loot mentality. You need to start fresh. Create a better server setup so item hacking aps are harder to use in the game. It's so simple to hack at the moment its ridiculous.

NOTE: These two issues alone should be enough to justify a new release. What is happening with DD now is the equivalent to muddying up a painting. You just continue to add more and more slop to cover mistakes that just becomes more unpleasant to look at, or in DD's case play.

- No more PVP. Add more PVE maps instead. PVP was a nice attempt but unless you start using dedicated servers, there is no point in even wasting resources with this mode.

- Wearable armor, Customization is huge with these types of games. You should take the time and implement armor that updates the heroes look in real time.

- Winnable costumes, different than armor, this would be worn over the armor you have equipped.

- More weapons! You'll be able to reuse weps from DD as well as expand the roster.

- Port over all maps and reuse assets to create more interesting maps.

- Spend time to fix the many errors that people repeatedly keep dealing with. One major one would be the deletion of all heroes glitch.

- You already have a library of weps, pets, and map assets. Bring them into DD2 and design more.

Starting fresh and building upon the core fundamentals is honestly the only way to go in my opinion. I have stopped playing the game for a few weeks now and feel this is the only legitimate solution to fixing the many issues that are in DD. The game was great; it still can be great if you just start fresh.

Make it happen Trendy.
Completely agree with you! You have great (and what inmportant - sane!) ideas! That would be great!

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I don't think they've demonstrated the ability to make a game with proper progression yet, so I'm not sure what the point would be in starting over before they've figured that out.

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While I agree that DD is off the track... lets not pull a valve here and make everyone repay for what they were told they'd get when buying the orignal.. what you're suggesting is for trendy to just give up and instead of improve what theyve got, release and resell what they already have... all the changes you just suggested don't require a new game, they require a fresh start, but christ you may aswell ask for them to go "oops all our servers crashed and your chars are gone, were gonna stoneage this and try again"

lets try to be a little more rational than "oh hey trendy this sucks, dont bother improving it just start over"


You could have simply said I don't want to spend money on DD2.

Going to highlight this.



Wow, I forgot how many HIGHLY EDUCATED FRIENDLY members roam the DD forums, it's....Cute.

Assets are reused all the time in games. I don't really understand your point because, to "improve what they got" would simply be to continue down the same road they've been headed in for months now. They supported the game. Technically it's complete.

It amazes me to see people like ceemeeir and quikassasin0. The self-entitled attitudes you both carry is simply revolting. Trendy owes you nothing. You purchased a working product from Steam. This purchase/contract with the seller begins and ends with that content you installed on day one.

They didn't have to update anything after release. They did anyways just to appease people like ceemeeir by retooling the loot system to expand late game content. The same content that has completely corrupted the game.

I'm not against late game content, but the way it was implemented failed. Hacking and balancing have made this game a total wreck.

In the end ceemeeir (I apologize for targeting on you, but you happen to be the perfect example to use) you're pretty much saying, "No Mint! I don't want a new iteration of the game where the frequent unfixable problems could be solved, where new content ideas, and better balancing can be implemented. Instead I'm going add on to my 1k plus posts and continue to complain about balancing, hacks, and glitches till the end of time."

Everything I said is rational. They fixed the balancing systems the best they could, time to move on instead of repeating the same pattern week after week.

Start fresh or your player base will end up being people who sell hacked items to... I guess no one soon.

Have a great night! :)


EDIT: I would strongly suggest that you dont re-edit again.
Naed.draagur

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Minty, all your ideas can be done by:
Fixing current Game issues
Starting a new server.
Adding DLCs

I disagree with you, accept that, instead of linking retard memes. Also, calling others uneducated, because they don't agree with you is lame.

Edit:
Many player will agree with you for one reason:
You present an issue, and provide only one way of solving it, and not list all the other possible alternatives. Of course they will agree with you.

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Mintycool is back? Wow! Now this place is starting to look like Dungeon Defenders golden era again. which was what? teh first month of release lol. Mayb this forum will become a little more lively/interesting now instead of all the are my items hacked threads. Anyways, I agree with ya man. Call it a day with this game.

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As much as I would like to see Dungeon Defenders evolve, what you're asking for won't happen for some time. Not only would it piss off a countless number of people who, as it is, start lynch mobs as soon as the term DLC is mentioned but they're not even finished releasing the latest batch of content on PC -- who knows when it will hit 360. As you said, Trendy is still having difficulty balancing the game and preventing cheating. To expect that they would drop their flagship title to develop a sequel that has all of these issues fixed and polished from launch is asinine.

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They have to show they can fix DD1 before they release DD2 in my book. Right now Trendy's value is watered down due to constant bad decisions.

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A new game is not happening just like the, it will end up having the same problems if not worse problems specially in such a short time frame as things are even a new server isnt something trendy is likely to do. The been said trendy need to work on something to start dealing with hackers, USD shops selling hack items and other issues the game has. Another thing you forgot is the expansion pack isnt even done they are still working on it and scrapping the game in my opinion simply wont happen specially so soon the game has only been out 3 months and a few weeks.

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For me there's 2 main issues.... Hacking and loot scaling...... Hacking is obvious, needs to be fixed in this version before even dreaming of releasing a new game, much less even new dlc. The loot scaling though is what is fueling the hacking.... I mean seriously.... We've increased max ups what.... 9 fold in the last 3 months? Congrats that's more than WoW which took 8 years to get there..... I fear for the cost to maximum upgrade loot in the next dlc.....


Long and short...... Fix hacking.... Server wipe..... Chop max ups 5 times, adjust monster damage accordingly, and you've got a game that has a shot at sucess not this half-*** excuse.....

This coming from a "diehard" fan not long ago.....

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I've only just come onto the DD scene, however I have read a lot about how many hackers are out there. It's no surprise when it comes to PC gaming. There will always be hackers on the PC, or for that matter on modded consoles, and up and coming mac hackers probably too.

I've written the following elsewhere also. It would be wise to have the characters stored online, rather than offline. Then equipment can be quickly monitored after people log off, or before they log on. Again, this might increase server load though, so I am not sure how plausible this would be. I can't remember what game it was, but I'm pretty sure I used to play one where you could have offline & online characters. Perhaps offline characters can be synchronised to online, however when this is done equipment should be checked. It shouldn't be too hard to check whether a piece of equipment has exceeded its maximum potential. Perhaps certain other equipment (such as rewards from TrendyEnt events) can have special maximum amounts.

I read too, that there's still issues of people having characters wiping for one reason or another. That is definitely a big issue if you ask me, and such big issues do need to be fixed. Balancing characters is almost a never-ending task for game developers. Just look at World of Warcraft. I'm sure they still don't have it right. And once it has been quite balanced, more content is released and the routine starts all over again. If only consoles could be patched as regularly as PC, then it might also simplify making them work together, although I don't know if there's any Steam/Gamespy games out there that can play alongside PC/Mac games. I think the only titles I can think of that have this functionality is Final Fantasy 11 & 14, but they'd most likely be connecting to the company's servers, not Steam or Gamespy. Even if they began with bringing in LAN capabilities of playing together, that'd be a start. Although you could probably do WAN if you've managed LAN, and if not, there'd be programs out there to set it up I'm sure :)

Anyway, enough rambling! I look forward to playing this game more! :)

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Just a quick note, I remember Jeremy stating, a long back back, that Dungeon Defenders already has the technology to have equipped armor affect your appearance. They just need need to put the armor models in (along with everything that goes with that).

As for patching versus starting over, I can't say I know enough to suggest much (though if you want to see my suggestion for nightmare mode, see the suggestion part of the forums. Maybe you will like it).

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It amazes me to see people like ceemeeir and quikassasin0. The self-entitled attitudes you both carry is simply revolting. Trendy owes you nothing.


Lmfao the only thing cuter is your attempt at bashing me with an analysis of what kind of "person i'm like" based off one misinterpreted statement... I haven't said nor will I ever say they owe me anything, (except maybe a handshake if i'm in florida because what they've accomplished is impressive.) Moreover what's actually revolting is how you have the audacity to "pretty much say "Dear Trendy, I am clearly an elitest Jack-Wagon, and your recent updates haven't been up to my par, therefore you're henceforth deemed incompetent, so upon recieving this I strongly suggest you just erase everything you have done and try again as if that will rectify the mess already made
with love,
-Minty"

They did anyways just to appease people like ceemeeir by retooling the loot system to expand late game content. The same content that has completely corrupted the game.


P.S. Uneducated is the one trying to blame the entire progression of an mmo on one person...
(inb4 "but quik i said people like ceemeeir!! i didn't blame ceemeeir alone" herp derp so there is a subset of people "like ceemeeir")

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Setup secure servers, set a bonus xp rate, and start a season 2... problem solved without a need for a whole new game

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There is NO reason why this game should be ditched because it has some bugs or malfunctions. What. The.

Is nobody familiar with the idea of patches and fixes? Of course people will agree with you when you only present them one option. Yeah, lets start from scratch, a clean fresh start! Sounds great! Improving the base we already have sounds so inefficient and stupid, nobody does that.

Come on people.... >.

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I don't think they need to market it as a DD2 but what they need to do comes close enough to it that they could get away with it. The monster balance needs to be retuned from the ground up. The loot system should be redesigned with the entire progression path planned out including thinking ahead to content further down the road - something that wasn't done with the easy-insane gear. The towers need to be completely scrapped and started again. Co-op play needs to be rethought as currently there is little incentive to play co-op and even when you do there are massive problems with the share of workload.

Sure they could do all that in DD but about the only part of the game that remains is the engine. When it's done would it even qualify as DD anymore? The advantage of making it a separate game is that they can leave the current iteration untouched for those who might prefer some of its quirks. It would also generate new interest in the game compared to what a DLC generates and could draw in new revenue which would be required to undertake the completion of such a large project.

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