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read the first post of this topic.


read it again- specifically the part where I said " Maybe there could be some sort of "purist" game mode that doesn't allow switching of characters but has better loot."

thanks


...and one more thing; If this were a request I would have put it into the appropriate request/suggestion forum. I decided to have a discussion so I posted it on the general discussion forum.


What your doing is forcing stealth grouping. The number one reason I only play with a few friends is not having my gameplay being molested by hacks. In an ideal hack free world your suggestion would be good, in reality it sucks balls for people who are not in an actively moderated large community group, if more than one or two even exist.

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What your doing is forcing stealth grouping.


maybe, maybe not.

Randoms could very well meet up and decide which of them wants to play which of their characters; groups could even decide that they don't really need an ensnare or strength drain for a particular challenge and double up on ranger dps.

I also think that it is silly to dismiss ideas because they would only be good in a hack-free world when the entire game depends on it's developers to maintain a hack-free environment. Nothing in the game really works if the majority of players are running around with illegitimate equipment.

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Having a mode which doesn't allow character changing could work, but it's unfair since tower specs can easily solo it compared to huntress and/or monks, at which point it then makes the mode pointless if it awards better gear.

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read it again- specifically the part where I said " Maybe there could be some sort of "purist" game mode that doesn't allow switching of characters but has better loot."


Go make a mod. Go have fun on it. The rest of us will be over here doing our own thing.

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Eh, I don't think there's much to discuss here... You should probably post it in the suggestions forum instead.

I don't see anything wrong with such mode, except I'm not sure why it should award better gear (as people noted, there's a penalty for swapping chars already, why penalize it even more? it's as if the hero dmg was nerfed and monster resistances buffed in nightmare, which would make no se... oh wait ;->).
But I really, really doubt TE would implement this as probably few people would use it anyway... A mod seems better for that, except you can't use mods in ranked...

Go ahead, try making a poll asking whether people would play that.

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So you're saying everyone has to be a hybrid? And in co-op games any troll that builds can just leave on the last wave and loses it for the team?

I think you are the only one that thinks this is a good idea.

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That's overstating the case a bit - having four characters doing physical attacks and utility familiars and repairing is a significant bonus to playing multiplayer.

I have no idea why it is more "pure" that buildings randomly destroyed when the builder is no longer there.... I mean, is that really what you'd expect to happen when you think about it? Why should buildings blow up when you leave them?


Sure, it might be a bit of an overstatement in some sense, but not completely. It still eliminates the most important advantages of multiplayer - tower variety. The fact is that more players adds more monsters and the added player DPS doesn't make up for the added monsters. It's the ability to place a variety of towers to better utilize the DU that enables the completion in multiplayer. Being able to fully utilize the DU in singleplayer gives the same overwhelming advantage without the excess monsters so the extra player DPS isn't missed.

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You aren't the only one that thinks that a single person building with multiple classes in a 4 player game is more than a bit redundant.

I think it stifles gameplay. It doesn't promote any sense of cooperation in multiplayer. When all you need are laborers to ferry mana, repair, and upgrade, you're still in a way soloing the game. Even when a single person builds every du, but needs the dps of other players in addition to the maintenance work, the one builder is the only one playing both halves of the game and are in that way soloing aka carrying. The rest of the players are interchangeable to a vast degree, and the other players' classes are 99% irrelevant in all but the highest levels of difficulty ( > insane campaign.)

I find it extremely disconcerting in a game with rpg elements to have the ability to switch out your character. Why don't others find it odd that in this game you don't play a character, you play an account? I don't play through the game with my apprentice, I play through it with my account. Weird. How do you role-play an account? Act like you have schizophrenia? The "purity" in question is I think the purity of an rpg where working with the strengths and limitations of your character and supplementing your character's abilities with others (teamwork) is part of the genre. If you remove that convention, you lose a part of the experience people have come to expect from games in that genre.

I have only rarely seen multiple players in a multiplayer game build and it's generally not accepted or welcome. Most games consist of a single player, single class setting up shop as it were, with monk auras (from the same or another player) filling up whatever scrap du's are left laying around. Or monks setting auras all over with barriers and non-electric damage sprinkled in. Every class's traps are decent enough to handle most situations. A squire's traps might be inferior to an apprentice's in some ways, but they can get the job done, and even a monk can use every du and come away with a victory.

Maybe restricting swapping to a mechanic like lives would make some kind of sense. (4 - [[488,hashtags]]) = [[1027,hashtags]]. But that wouldn't matter much if you still only need towers from one class to clear a level.

Why people responded strongly to the op's idea will forever remain a mystery to me. I saw not one post that had a valid point against what he said, but all were quite vehement in the wrongness of the op's position. While there are certainly logical arguments to be made in favor of unrestricted hero swaps between rounds, emotion seems to have won the day.

TL;DR: In the end, this is a simple game without the requirements of synergy between players. The game feels a little false to me in terms of it being a multiplayer game and in terms of it being an rpg and in terms of it being a tower defense game. Without both the strategic need for multiple classes and the requirement for multiple players to provide those different classes in multiplayer games, I feel the gameplay falls short of its potential.


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Why people responded strongly to the op's idea will forever remain a mystery to me. I saw not one post that had a valid point against what he said, but all were quite vehement in the wrongness of the op's position. While there are certainly logical arguments to be made in favor of unrestricted hero swaps between rounds, emotion seems to have won the day.




I completely agree. Its all fine and dandy to say someone's idea isn't good...but without legitimate backup, its pointless.

Yes, maybe this thread should have been filed under 'Suggestions', but it wasn't which doesn't mean that it becomes useless.

It is a multiplayer, the game is based around that. Yes, in single player you have no choice but to swap heroes...but when playing with four people, then it means that you have to work as a team. This is hard when playing with pugs because communication is usually lacking, but still can be done. It would put even more emphasis on being 'multiplayer'.

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