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Patches/DLC/Lies *cough* (bending of the truth for profit margin increase) o my?


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For whatever its worth, here's my opinion.

I highly doubt the obstacle is a financial one. My impressions on the matter is that the turnaround time is dangerous. Trendy is a small, first-time, indie gaming studio. They make mistakes, they add bugs - lets be honest, lots of them. For steam, the turnaround time for a new patch seems to be a couple hours to a day max. For consoles? Content submission takes a couple weeks atleast, if not longer (from what I've heard in constant scheduled DLC games, typically rhythm games). Its probably an oversight on their part, but based on versioning problems they've had in the past, they likely don't have a good system for that, and developing two different versions cleanly is something they missed, and its something thats hard to turn around and fix, especially when they're trying to maintain such an active development platform for their primary platform. That's why there was content but not really a code submission.

My hopes? They're taking this holiday season to slow it down, since all things do. With this, they can get a stable version up, get proper code repositories up and be able to handle this, so they can get the stable changes in while keeping the issues they're adding and fixing on a daliy basis out - ready for a January submission/release. And, hopefully, a sleeker process moving forward.

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Sadly Trendy has become the George Lucas of Videogames.Come out with a great concept,truly unique,and totally blow everything passed the initial release.DD is an incredible game,but when you take into account the misinformation,complete ignoring of console users,and outright lies,its hard to support them at all.

Heck they won't even give console users thier own general forums section just for console users.I think its obvious by now they have no intention of releasing 90% of the content that PC has.The so called excuse of patch costs is a total lie when other companies who are not as successful have patched their PSN games quicker and often and most importantly have kept their customer base informed.

If they ever had any intention of truly supporting console then they would at the very minimum keep us informed.2 or 3 respwed lines every few weeks is not information.And the tons of patches that PC got is DLC.Holiday events that add maps,enemies and loot is DLC.Where is our customer support ? Oh thats right they are busy making content for PC and keeping them informed about the patches they are working on and the deluge of content.

I know i sound bitter but i am.It truly feels like they took our money and ran.Tired of ppl saying its only $15.That means nothing.DD could have been sold for $60 easy and people would have bought in droves if they would just support their dang game.This is just a PC game that they sold on consoles for a lil added cash boost.With console users getting fed up with no info given and being ignored while pc gets everything,if they had any intention of giving us more content passed Eternia shards and the ONE upcoming patch they would habe said something by now,but they havnt.

This game had so much potential on console and could have made them so much more money but as it stands now they have lost the trust of many of their console customers and i for one will never buy anything from a company with such blatant ignoring of its customers.The fact that we dont even have our own forum section for this post says alot in of itself.

Great game,but just like George Lucas and star wars im not gonna give them more money to ignore us and do whatever they feel like in regards to PC vs console,They are a PC company bottom line and will never support console the way they do for pc.

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OP definitely watches Glenn Beck. Or whoever replaced him, I don't know.

On topic: Shut up.

No, really. Trendy is doing the responsible thing for consoles and testing rigorously before they submit. The PC version seems to be a beta of sorts because they're easily able to recover what they messed up on.

Also who in the hell complains about a small Indie Developer making a profit? The **** is wrong with you.

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Something is forgotten when you calculate potential sales. For one, Epic Games (creator of Unreal Engine) takes a 25% royalty cut on any game sold over $100,000 income. All PC sales over Steam also have a cut taken for Valve. Somehow this mucho millions becomes less and less. Successful game or not in the end it's still not as successful as other games with 5,10,20+ million copies sold.

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Yeah this is what producers are for and also your publishers. If anyone thinkis trendy wasnt drawing paychecks of some kind while making dundef, theyre woefully naive on how making games, writing books, movies, etc work.


Woah woah woah, what happened to the "feel sad for Trendy!!" posts when they claimed they werent getting paid and most of them have been having to live off their savings?

Sheesh, cant even keep a story straight anymore.

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Sadly Trendy has become the George Lucas of Videogames.Come out with a great concept,truly unique,and totally blow everything passed the initial release.DD is an incredible game,but when you take into account the misinformation,complete ignoring of console users,and outright lies,its hard to support them at all.

Great game,but just like George Lucas and star wars im not gonna give them more money to ignore us and do whatever they feel like in regards to PC vs console,They are a PC company bottom line and will never support console the way they do for pc.


Agree...thinks of Gladius.....

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I wish people stopped skimming the entire thread, this isn't about profit margin, this is about how TE lies about everything for the consoles? Or at the least bends the information using the beauty of word manipulation.

The bottom line points I was hoping to convey was:

- TE has enough for 2-3 patches for the PC (show me how even the most powerful equipment, best stuff, biggest delays, and whatever other stuff you want to invent in defense, would stop them from this)

- TE doesn't care about console player support/tech support/anything, since the copies on the PC is how they buy their new yachts. I don't care what they use the money for, but I know they didn't use it for any sort of console support on the forums, look at our sections vs anything else.

- Any info that JDanford releases is so vague and scattered, I can see a mile through it. I want something like o, lets say, realistic? Not console events to mask the true damage under the surface, not empty promises of belated patches and DLC. Btw the new DLC is just another bandade in my opinion, but we'll see.


I don't care that I like this game, I quit League of Legends and liked that way more, because of a very similar reason. So even if everyone else doesn't quit at some point, the January patch determines my future with this game, at the least. I'm not saying that one person counts for anything, but I refuse to stop trying just because we have been ignored so far.

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My opinion the DunDef Digest goes like this usually
Console players... blaaa blaaa, old info... blaa blaa...
PC players check out these wonderfull screenshots of the new stuff we've made fore you.


Haha I busted up laughing at this post. At this point I just filter everything I read into 2 categories, Trendy & Players.

Trendy - Consoles: Something may or may not come out sometime and it may contain somethings and not other things
Trendy - PC: Hail glorious PC master race. Sure we'll change the game how ever you want. Bam, done.

Player - Consoles: What? Why? Hello? Anyone...
Player - PC: WHAT!? THIS IS BROKEN/TOOHARD/NOTHARDENOUGH RRRRAAAGGGEEEEE

Good times.

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Haha I busted up laughing at this post. At this point I just filter everything I read into 2 categories, Trendy & Players.

Trendy - Consoles: Something may or may not come out sometime and it may contain somethings and not other things
Trendy - PC: Hail glorious PC master race. Sure we'll change the game how ever you want. Bam, done.

Player - Consoles: What? Why? Hello? Anyone...
Player - PC: WHAT!? THIS IS BROKEN/TOOHARD/NOTHARDENOUGH RRRRAAAGGGEEEEE

Good times.


lmfao as sad as it is to say this is what i see when i come here

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Just a quick shout at OP:

PC has like 500k+ sales per the IGN interview, most are on PC and im guessing most after the initial 250k were on sale for 3$ or 7.5$.

I also assume with fees and such on PC, TE makes about 50-60% of the sale price. A good portion goes to steam and another to the UR3 engine team.

Again, I assume they make on console about 30% due to they are required to have a publisher in addition to the above fees (steam = ms or Sony here) and the publisher takes a huge fee to "test" the console version. They also have to pay to patch.

The above is from reading a bunch or articles about who takes cuts and about how much. Easily goggled ;)

I am speaking as a player and business major here. Why would TE produce extra pat he's for console if it is 20% or less of the player base, they make less money per sale, and are charged to patch.

On PC they make more and can patch all they want. Plus no publisher.

Im not saying don't support console, they are a legit player base especially for a startup. All I am saying is from a business stand point, its better to release a big.patch every few.months rather then once a month or week. The costs would add up to more then they make.

Again this is just from a player seeing a company trying go make some.money, which is what all companies want to do ;) this isn't from a what's fair standpoint ;)

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I think the two biggest bits of console news from today's Digest are:

1) Dungeon Defenders is finally coming to PSN EU.

2) You probably won't hear new details about the console patch until January.


I'm more focused on the problems the people who already own DD on a console are having. The EU news is a start, but your just appeasing a crowd who doesn't have the game, who want the game, but doesn't really know what they are getting themselves into.

They will make their moneys worth. But only barely, as $15 dollars (I'm not converting the price cuz i'm not sure what it is in pounds) is worth the game without the bugs. So, assuming the bug fixes are their, it's worth it for vanilla. The game would be worth so much more if it had a half decent company backing it up, who actually cared about the console users.

As per your second point of us not hearing new details about the console patch until january. Look at the PC patch notes on a daily basis! They keep adding new things to the information. 24 hours after 7.14a, 7.14b was showing 3 items. Now that the hotfix was added, a total of 11 bulleted items are on the list. I want to see this progression with our patch notes. Today, we learn of the bug fixes, level cap, and the new forest dlc items. Tomorrow, we learn of a mana cap increase, core balancing changes, etc. Of course, i more expect from the time they SHOULD have been working on this patch (about 2 weeks into the game), about weekly updates instead. Unlike pc, i know it won't be weekly patching, but you cannot tell me they cannot work on the code weekly. I DO expect consoles to see these holiday dlc events the pc got. The holidays is a great time of giving for the pc players, and should be for the console players as well. And none of us care now that they are drastically late on this, cuz after the patch maybe they'll turn around and put some time down to make the halloween, christmas, etc dlc work on the console, all the while using the eternia shards dlc to keep pc going.

And let us not mention the fact that pc has development tools released to the owners of the game. User made maps on open mode is in a way dlc itself that people can have fun with while consoles are being worked on. In a sense, Trendy has a much, much larger development team stacked onto their salaried developers, working for pc only. they can start using some of their salaried devs to work on our consoles.

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I completely agree 100%. I'm just waiting for the mods to come in and give some half-*** reason to why nothing is being done for the console version. I guarantee none of the ACTUAL employees will step in and say anything. Even when the game first came out there were SO many questions regarding the console version, yet they ignored ALL of them. Then I take a look at the PC forums for this game, and ALL of theirs questions gets answered. It's like they're scared to say something... it ridiculous.

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Making money in a capitalist economy is such a horirble thing!

By the way, some people paid a lot less than the OP thinks.

I paid $11.49 for a FOUR PACK during the steam sale. That's less than $3 a copy. OP is overestimating their income and grossly overestimating their profit.

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Im not saying don't support console, they are a legit player base especially for a startup. All I am saying is from a business stand point, its better to release a big.patch every few.months rather then once a month or week. The costs would add up to more then they make.


I would like to note that, for a gaming company, focusing solely as a business yields horribly poor PR and does not instil trust in their player base.

Trendy Ent. is a company and they want to make profits, but there is a fine line between making profit and taking care of your customers.

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....

Trendy Ent. is a company and they want to make profits, but there is a fine line between making profit and taking care of your customers.


+1
im with u .

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Just a quick shout at OP:

PC has like 500k+ sales per the IGN interview, most are on PC and im guessing most after the initial 250k were on sale for 3$ or 7.5$.

I also assume with fees and such on PC, TE makes about 50-60% of the sale price. A good portion goes to steam and another to the UR3 engine team.

Again, I assume they make on console about 30% due to they are required to have a publisher in addition to the above fees (steam = ms or Sony here) and the publisher takes a huge fee to "test" the console version. They also have to pay to patch.

The above is from reading a bunch or articles about who takes cuts and about how much. Easily goggled ;)

I am speaking as a player and business major here. Why would TE produce extra pat he's for console if it is 20% or less of the player base, they make less money per sale, and are charged to patch.

On PC they make more and can patch all they want. Plus no publisher.

Im not saying don't support console, they are a legit player base especially for a startup. All I am saying is from a business stand point, its better to release a big.patch every few.months rather then once a month or week. The costs would add up to more then they make.

Again this is just from a player seeing a company trying go make some.money, which is what all companies want to do ;) this isn't from a what's fair standpoint ;)

In truth they made probably just about from pc as they did console at this point in time, they charged us 10 but mostly 15 dollars to buy this game and that money could be going towards giving us the patches and the character dlc which they lied to us about. But instead all that money that they got from us is going to working on the pc and giving them Free dlc and they won't even give us any patches or the clearly more wanted dlc, the characters.

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Just a quick example of pricing and sales:

PC sells 500k copies of DunDef at $3 each. That's a total of $1,500,000.
Console sells 100k copies of DunDef at $15 each. That's a total of $1,500,000.

We know that not all of the PC versions sold at $3 and we know consoles did not sell 100k copies.
Even giving the console version a handicap you can see what it would take for both versions to be equal in profit.

That's not even taking into consideration publishing fees.
If the above is true that still makes the PC version a higher priority solely based on the number of sales.

The underline point is more sales, even if at a lower price, is better than fewer sales at full price.

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Consoles are too restrictive for indie devs like Trendy.

Blame MS/Sony.

Stop crying about it here.

Get the PC version ( Seriously, any PC in the last 4-5 years can run it better than consoles ), get access to DLC/patches day 1 ( Not to mention steam sales where many have bought DD for like $3-4 )

Done and done.

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I'm always amazed at how many expert game developers and financial experts exist on these forums.

:monk:

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Not to play devil's advocate, but I've often seen through experience that most if not all developers adhere to a strict NDA (Non Disclosure Agreement) policy. This most often than not is the reason why developers cannot legally answer or disclose any information (regardless of how pertinent it may be to resolving a widely needed issue) until granted the permission to do so.

I believe this is due to the nature of public companies, especially Independent ones--the largest priority being to maintain a consistent public image with streamlined information.

So to those of you who are saying that Trendy Net isn't in "touch" with their public relations, I believe that they likely have a hold on what information they likely can release.

Then again, I could be 100% incorrect in my beliefs, but I hope this might at the very least bring to light an ongoing and difficult issue that most game developers have to face on a daily basis.

My 2-cents aside, I am looking forward to the new patch.

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NDA's can be evil stuff ;) That being said a ton of devs at every studio I've worked for avidly read their games forums, most don't post though :B NDA's are necessary for various reasons but for the developers it's usually better safe than sorry :P NDA's for independent studios are usually a lot more loose than ones at big studios.

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I'm always amazed at how many expert game developers and financial experts exist on these forums.

:monk:


Don't forget about the lawyers!

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