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In Game mana (money) issues


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New Drops are going over 100^'s. The cost to fully up these is 500 million or more. It seems unrealistic to me that a player can make the money to upgrade one piece of armor let alone 4 plus a pet and a weapon for each character.

The only way to do this is to be the first to reach the top tier content and sell your extra loot to the masses. If you are slightly behind that top tier curve then you lose the ability to make enough money selling your loot to successfuly upgrade.

The result is that upgrade costs are inconsequential to the very top tier players and they are nearly unobtainable by anyone playing through the game at a normal pace.

Players need to be taking away more in game money from nightmare level content to have any chance to pay for these upgrades or the tavern shop items. Also, more in game money all around = more lowbies buying the gear of mid geared heros, which is also a win.

It's fun to have money to spend and not be broke all the time ---> fun game = i'll play more and buy more of your dlc.

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LOL, hole in your logic... I made 150mil selling umf stuff today. I'm the furthest thing from the first person to reach the mission, and I haven't even been able to successfully complete it. Do what you can to save money be it running survival or grinding glitter, buy something useful from a player shop, move up the ranks.

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LOL, hole in your logic... I made 150mil selling umf stuff today. I'm the furthest thing from the first person to reach the mission, and I haven't even been able to successfully complete it. Do what you can to save money be it running survival or grinding glitter, buy something useful from a player shop, move up the ranks.


150 mil is a drop in the bucket. It is 600-700 mil to upgrade 100^ loot, and you flatout cannot make that money in game. I have sold enough money to have 4 / 5 charachters geared for top content. The point is that this shouldn't be required. I have friends who I want to play with, but they can't keep up on gear because they refuse to run a 12 hour a day afk shop to make the $$. I actually think the shopping and reselling is fun, but it shouldn't be a required component of the game. It should enable something else.

Give the ability to make decent mana by playing the game please.

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yeah only the top tier players who are capable of farming the loot will be able to upgrade it by selling it to the masses

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If you sell UMF gear at a resonable price its rather easy to make buckets of money. Last night I opened my shop for 30 minutes and made a little over 300m.

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Huntress82 people have been complaining about grind is many rpgs, the majority of the people who play them like to sit around and do repetitive actions and farm for every advantage. Having realistic mana upgrade costs would be great, though I don't think theres any chance of a change. High mana costs actually makes more buy the dlcs as those who are trying to get top tier will buy the dlcs for the chance to get such items.

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Soul Reaper, I have no problem with a grind. The problem is that there isn't a grind you can do to make money to upgrade the new items that are coming out. You have to grind to collect weapons that are unsalable for prices that will allow you upgrade unless you are the first to reach content and can sell all your items for 9999999 or more from your tavern floor. This has the effect of wiping the pockets of mid tier players and maxing out the top tier. The top tier players know this and often take pity on mid tier players by just giving away mana or weapons.

The solution isn't even hard. Just give x3 x4 x5 more money for doing certain difficult things in the game. i.e. nightmare. It will enable people to buy more from player shops, feel like they can progress through actually doing something in the game, and also, why the F not?

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Huntress82 people have been complaining about grind is many rpgs,


>grind
>rpg
>not an rpg
>not an mmo
>dungeon defenders = (tower defense - tower defense) + 3rd person action game
>dungeon defenders = 3rd person action game now

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>grind
>rpg
>not an rpg
>not an mmo
>dungeon defenders = (tower defense - tower defense) + 3rd person action game
>dungeon defenders = 3rd person action game now


Yes, please. Please implement a method by which people who do not want to run afk shops can still participate in the game. If this can be done somehow, I am looking for advice to give friends on how to do it.

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Yes, please. Please implement a method by which people who do not want to run afk shops can still participate in the game.


i agree with ya. they shouldnt be "afk" shops but rather just shops in general. let people set them up for a period of time, say 1 hour and then log off. after an hour it'll close. then again with steam, i wouldnt count on it being up for more than 30 minutes lol.

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I don't use player shops and never will. I won't sell my stuff in them and won't buy other peoples stuff from them. If I do have to do that then the game is broken because this is a single player game as well as a co-op game and I can't insulate myself as a player from cheating if I use the shop feature. Call me a purist.

That said, you get a lot more money for high end loot and the upgrade cost level seems to be capped somewhere around epic level on armor at least. I have experienced that it gets easier to upgrade stuff as you get further in the game, but I don't know if this continues when items have 120+ upgrades. I can tell you that there were item drops that were worth 300k+ in UMF and if the trend continues in nightmare content then I assume there are armor pieces that sell for in excess of 1 million credits and you possibly could loot dozens of them in one match in the highest content. It may not be as tough to get 500 million credits as you think.

If you try to buy a 100^ weapon and upgrade it by fighting content that only drops 40^ weapons then yes I think it will take a very long time to get the money.

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I don't use player shops and never will. I won't sell my stuff in them and won't buy other peoples stuff from them. If I do have to do that then the game is broken because this is a single player game as well as a co-op game and I can't insulate myself as a player from cheating if I use the shop feature. Call me a purist.

That said, you get a lot more money for high end loot and the upgrade cost level seems to be capped somewhere around epic level on armor at least. I have experienced that it gets easier to upgrade stuff as you get further in the game, but I don't know if this continues when items have 120+ upgrades. I can tell you that there were item drops that were worth 300k+ in UMF and if the trend continues in nightmare content then I assume there are armor pieces that sell for in excess of 1 million credits and you possibly could loot dozens of them in one match in the highest content. It may not be as tough to get 500 million credits as you think.


Well, nightmare loot has been broken so it's hard to say. However, I have run the first 4 nightmare levels and alch labs repeatedly, and you get hardly any money from them. You also don't make that much money from UMF insane. UMF insane has had the best $$, but you're still talking under 10mil from a UMF insane run all the way through, at least solo. This just isn't enough when you are talking 5-6 million + per upgrade lvl on an item. Currently, the only way that makes any sense to make money to pay for high end upgrades is to sell stuff and this IS fun in it's own way. However, another progression path is needed if I am going to continue to have friends to play with for much longer.

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It makes absolutely no sense that you get like 20k mana from nightmare deeper well even though it is far more challenging than pretty much any insane map where you would make at least 1 million and sometimes more.

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Next patch helps a tiny bit, where any map on nightmare should be dropping items with ok sale price. But i think it's still nowhere near enough. If trendy doesn't make more changes to help out soon, I think only people that can play 4+ hours a day will remain in this game.

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Next patch helps a tiny bit, where any map on nightmare should be dropping items with ok sale price. But i think it's still nowhere near enough. If trendy doesn't make more changes to help out soon, I think only people that can play 4+ hours a day will remain in this game.



This ^, it's casual / weekend player unsustainable.

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So I got a question about people complaining about the prices of upping items etc...

If you dont play that much. U wont most likely be grinding nightmare alot? Then by that fact you wont be obtaining armor /weapons that often that is ^100 ups right? That makes sense for me anyway.

So a casual player mostly play for the fun and to get 1 piece of loot and upgrade it is fun right? And the satisfaction of maxing the item isent something you need to stress towards in my eyes? I got pets and armor parts and such that arent maxed but they still work and I can play nightmare on certain maps.

I just enjoy it as it is. If I could get everything in 1 days work I would have gotten bored of this game a long time ago...

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yeah only the top tier players who are capable of farming the loot will be able to upgrade it by selling it to the masses


Same feeling
Everytime i start dundef i ask myself what todo no One joins my shop i cant beat the old umf, New for sure not grinding mana isnt fun to me
I bought this game because it was.start and play and actual get better with fun now its all over wow ... Grind ever the same thing and dont tell me thats how rpgs are look at guildwars or elder scrolls and so on they never need farm **** and btw dundef was marketed as td with RPG elements. Now its a RPG with tower Elements

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So I got a question about people complaining about the prices of upping items etc...

If you dont play that much. U wont most likely be grinding nightmare alot? Then by that fact you wont be obtaining armor /weapons that often that is ^100 ups right? That makes sense for me anyway.

So a casual player mostly play for the fun and to get 1 piece of loot and upgrade it is fun right? And the satisfaction of maxing the item isent something you need to stress towards in my eyes? I got pets and armor parts and such that arent maxed but they still work and I can play nightmare on certain maps.

I just enjoy it as it is. If I could get everything in 1 days work I would have gotten bored of this game a long time ago...


It depends how new you are to the game. A lot of the casuals that bought the game during or soon after release have pretty much done what they can do (achievements for chicken pet). They are probably up to the stage of acquiring 65+ weapons and the respective armors/pets in order to progress. Getting those items is not all that hard with player shops, but actually upgrading them is. I think a 70^ weapon, which is pretty average now, costs 70-80 mil to max. Then theres armors and pets, for multiple characters. Those don't have to be maxed, but would still cost a fair bit to be decent.

Being partially an RPG game, progression is what most players want when they play. If they have to spend a week farming same map over and over (maps they can and have time to beat) just to get a better weapon to progress, I don't think it would be that satisfying for them.

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Based on testing with open servers, new UMF will net upwards of 200 million mana for each clear on nightmare (this is just from autoselling items on the ground).

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Based on testing with open servers, new UMF will net upwards of 200 million mana for each clear on nightmare (this is just from autoselling items on the ground).


That sort of works, but still seems like it would make you depend on the afk shop a bit since the people clearing it consistently will be the already full geared ones (who know how to exploit glitches).

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Another problem i found:
many of those high-end items are reserved for lvl 74, so only guys from those lvls will be interested in buying, but then, when you are there already you run NM yourself many times ... You make money by selling high end gear not to elite players, but to very or good ones, those who have mana, but cant run NM uber feast or put in looong hours. If i have gear to sell (140^) and reserved for lvl 74 who will buy it? Guys who already have 200^? Besides, they will have no money - why pay couple hundred millions in weap which still costs like 2 bln to update ... High end weap will become popular, and the price will drop. Anyone lvl 74 will be able to get easily good stuff, and they will save money for updates. And no money for sellers ....

Not to mention drying the market from all the stocked mana ...

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Hopefully with the upcoming patch, this will be relieved slightly. If you factor in that decent items in insane glitter wave 14 sell for maybe 30k average, which is probably a conservative estimate, then every nightmare map will be pulling in a decent mana/run, even if you're only getting 10 items a round for low mob counts in deeper well, that'll still be a mil. F&F will already be a large step up due to mob counts, and with ogres in every map, drops are more common than that.

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Perhaps before you question where you're going to find the money, look at those 100^ items and their worth.

My armour set was worth about 12-15m mana, so 4 items. Now think of how much mana you'll make at the end of the round on new content.

500 won't take long to make at all. Plus with all the extra mana in the game, item and weapon prices will rise so you can sell them for more.

Mana isn't hard to make.

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