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Some actual data on Piercing Shot nerf


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I set up two G-15 scripts to simulate two different scenarios. The first is the game at present, with constant left clicks and Piercing Shot used every 1.33 seconds (to account for reaction time and to prevent accidental presses while on cooldown). The second keeps the constant left clicks but uses Piercing Shot every 4 seconds, as in 7.13. My stats are as follows:



Now, with the script simulating 7.12e (DPS varied based on Piercing Shot timing, so I included both):




And 7.13:




7.12e averages out to be 264,000 DPS against the dummy. 7.13 averages out at 215,000 DPS. This is a difference of over twenty percent. Also keep in mind my Piercing Shot stat is particularly low because some of my armor has negative Piercing Shot. The nerf will be even more pronounced at higher levels of Piercing Shot.

How can you justify this, Trendy? You nerfed Huntress DPS by at least twenty percent, likely somewhere between twenty-five and thirty-three for more typical gear setups. Your argument that Huntresses are safe is rubbish. Turkeyfest, UMF, there are no areas where Huntresses can hide in safety and snipe from long range. You can't afford to set up defenses to tank mobs due to both time constraints and the insane damage mobs do compared to walls. The nerf is unjustified.

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I really don't think Trendy is looking at it from a single target DPS perspective. Your basing the dps of PS on one target, now put 50 mobs in front of you and use it..... What would your DPS be? Thats how Trendy sees it. A 200k PS on 50 mobs is 10M dmg? I use and will always use my huntress for dps but this nerf really dont bother me.

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Kudos on the scripts to simulate the new patch's nerf of pierce shot. I completely agree the nerf was unjustified and again leaves the rangers and huntresses barely keeping up with the crazy dps of apprentices/adepts or countess.

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Straight line damage is inconsequential. Picture a narrow corridor where mobs file down. A Huntress uses Piercing Shot; they all die before they reach the end. Have a melee Monk or Squire guard the end. Not a mob gets through either.

This change to single target damage is most pronounced against bosses and ogres. Monster Fest iterations have tons of ogres. Every new campaign map ends in a boss. The game is moving away from narrow corridors to ogres and bosses. Who cares about straight line damage when none of the challenges are built around them?

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Straight line damage is inconsequential. Picture a narrow corridor where mobs file down. A Huntress uses Piercing Shot; they all die before they reach the end. Have a melee Monk or Squire guard the end. Not a mob gets through either.

This change to single target damage is most pronounced against bosses and ogres. Monster Fest iterations have tons of ogres. Every new campaign map ends in a boss. The game is moving away from narrow corridors to ogres and bosses. Who cares about straight line damage when none of the challenges are built around them?


In UMF my friend who has a disc thrower out-DPSes me EVERY. SINGLE. GAME.

My weapon does more damage and more DPS against the test dummy.

My hero attack damage is higher.

I don't see anything unjustified by a 10% nerf when the DPS is multiplied by however many ogres are in front of you while using the huntress.

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You cant expect every class to be able to do everything , they each have there own situational needs.


What kind of argument is that? "Huntresses are too good at a mechanic we're phasing out. Let's make them worse at a mechanic we're phasing in."

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You forget people only think about UMF map this n that. If not for that map people wouldnt even notice the change that much, heck didnt it used to me 3 sec or so when the game came out? But as we all know if you make a dps junkies numbers drop a few notches the end of the world has arrived.

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My macro needs a 1.335 second delay to be able to succesfully chain the pierce 95% of the time, the lower the number the less it actually chains it (with it only happening once in 30 tries at 1.25)

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Your complaint is against single target damage to ogres or bosses. Im saying they may not be meant to be your uber boss killer class more of a lane clearing class. Which they will still do just fine even on a 4 sec CD.

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You cant expect every class to be able to do everything , they each have there own situational needs.


What do you mean situational?

There's a reason you can swap to champs in and out. It's so you can set up Auras/Towers/Traps then switch to your current flavor of DPS. Which BTW is pretty balanced, as everyone can go insane damage with insane gear. THAT IS THE CURRENT META.

http://forums.trendyent.com/showthread.php?34351-Question-about-the-huntress-Hunter-Nerf/page2

Pretty much read my post about gimmicks and my DPS. *Note* I have ZERO Super-loot, only standard UMF 70wep/40armor. I generally do the same damage on all champs the only difference being, what gimmick they bring to the table - They are currently nerfing ours. If you read my 2nd post. I go more into that.

*ALSO NOTE* I have successfully completed UMF solo AND Duo, on App/Monk/Hunt. Using the SAME duo partner, and using the SAME gear just different weapons. We generally have 1:30 left after every UMF. Which is how I came to the conclusion of DPS currently being pretty balanced.

Also OP, How much do your PS hit for? I currently do just under 150k. Do you know how much % loss I will receive upon patch.

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Straight line damage is inconsequential. Picture a narrow corridor where mobs file down. A Huntress uses Piercing Shot; they all die before they reach the end. Have a melee Monk or Squire guard the end. Not a mob gets through either.

This change to single target damage is most pronounced against bosses and ogres. Monster Fest iterations have tons of ogres. Every new campaign map ends in a boss. The game is moving away from narrow corridors to ogres and bosses. Who cares about straight line damage when none of the challenges are built around them?


I actually disagree. I think it is only a small percentage of the game that is not suitable for the huntress. I agree that UMF is not the best map for a huntress. But for most of the game she is excellent. Once again, personal opinion. I think her invis is also a great ability. But 'once again', it isn't best suited for open area maps like with UMF.

Our upcoming DLC, if anything, encourages the use of Piercing Shot. You will likely notice this heavily in some later DLC.

I will admit that we currently encourage late game players to grind out modes like UMF were the Huntress may have some more concerns than other players. But her one move being nothing but a spam straight line nuke to most creeps... we didn't think that was right.

And You can still use the move 15 times a seconds... technically.

We definitely did not make this decision based on Dummy DPS. Though of course it is something we looked at.

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In UMF my friend who has a disc thrower out-DPSes me EVERY. SINGLE. GAME.

My weapon does more damage and more DPS against the test dummy.

My hero attack damage is higher.

I don't see anything unjustified by a 10% nerf when the DPS is multiplied by however many ogres are in front of you while using the huntress.


I've heard very conflicting reports of disc shooters piercing ogres. I personally have not seen one way or another.

You can improve your DPS by better position as a melee character, just as you can improve your DPS by lining up targets for Huntress. Further, if you're playing Monk or Countess (which you probably are), you contribute a second copy of yourself and your friend probably three quarters of the time with boosts. That DPS from your buffs is attributable to you, not them, regardless of how the game counts it.

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your math is wrong. you averaged post 7.13 higher then either of your ss's for it.. pre 7.13 is 264420
post is 215220 which is about a 23% damage difference. that's a pretty big nerf, especially when apprentices with high end gear are breaking 1 mil, and huntress with equal gear is in the 500-600k range

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What do you mean situational?

There's a reason you can swap to champs in and out. It's so you can set up Auras/Towers/Traps then switch to your current flavor of DPS. Which BTW is pretty balanced, as everyone can go insane damage with insane gear. THAT IS THE CURRENT META.

http://forums.trendyent.com/showthread.php?34351-Question-about-the-huntress-Hunter-Nerf/page2

Pretty much read my post about gimmicks and my DPS. *Note* I have ZERO Super-loot, only standard UMF 70wep/40armor. I generally do the same damage on all champs the only difference being, what gimmick they bring to the table - They are currently nerfing ours. If you read my 2nd post. I go more into that.

*ALSO NOTE* I have successfully completed UMF solo AND Duo, on App/Monk/Hunt. Using the SAME duo partner, and using the SAME gear just difference weapons. We generally have 1:30 left after every UMF. Which is how I came to the conclusion of DPS currently being pretty balanced.

Also OP, How much do your PS hit for? I currently do just under 150k. Do you know how much % loss will I receive upon patch.


By situational I mean you have the ability to switch out toons like you said, so if a boss fight is coming this wave then maybe use another class if needed. Also my PS does 220k. And what do you mean by % loss? The only loss is to an overall dps theres no loss to the amount your PS will do each attack.

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your math is wrong. you averaged post 7.13 higher then either of your ss's for it.. pre 7.13 is 264420
post is 215220 which is about a 23% damage difference. that's a pretty big nerf, especially when apprentices with high end gear are breaking 1 mil, and huntress with equal gear is in the 500-600k range


Good catch. I accidentally did the high end of 7.12 with the low end of 7.13. Fixing now.

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By situational I mean you have the ability to switch out toons like you said, so if a boss fight is coming this wave then maybe use another class if needed. Also my PS does 220k. And what do you mean by % loss? The only loss is to an overall dps theres no loss to the amount your PS will do each attack.


%Loss as in, with a 150k PS, how much will my DPS go down with a 4Sec cooldown. I figured OP was a math wize and could calculate that pretty quickly. I do 320k currently with PS spam.

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What do you mean situational?

There's a reason you can swap to champs in and out. It's so you can set up Auras/Towers/Traps then switch to your current flavor of DPS. Which BTW is pretty balanced, as everyone can go insane damage with insane gear. THAT IS THE CURRENT META.

http://forums.trendyent.com/showthread.php?34351-Question-about-the-huntress-Hunter-Nerf/page2

Pretty much read my post about gimmicks and my DPS. *Note* I have ZERO Super-loot, only standard UMF 70wep/40armor. I generally do the same damage on all champs the only difference being, what gimmick they bring to the table - They are currently nerfing ours. If you read my 2nd post. I go more into that.

*ALSO NOTE* I have successfully completed UMF solo AND Duo, on App/Monk/Hunt. Using the SAME duo partner, and using the SAME gear just different weapons. We generally have 1:30 left after every UMF. Which is how I came to the conclusion of DPS currently being pretty balanced.

Also OP, How much do your PS hit for? I currently do just under 150k. Do you know how much % loss I will receive upon patch.


Your current Piercing Shot DPS is damage/cooldown. This is 150k/1.25, or 120k DPS getting nerfed down to 37.5k DPS with the new cooldown. Alternatively, your Piercing Shot DPS is reduced to about a third (31.5%).

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Your current Piercing Shot DPS is damage/cooldown. This is 150k/1.25, or 120k DPS getting nerfed down to 37.5k DPS with the new cooldown. Alternatively, your Piercing Shot DPS is reduced to about a third (31.5%).


Ouch!! PS Spam makes up for a 1/3 of my DPS too, currently. Assuming your math is correct. :(

Thanks for the insight and numbers. I hope trendy looks at these numbers.

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for me.. my auto attack only does 263,286 dps. My spreadshot standing at dummy (so all 3 hit) does 288,687 DPS this adds up to 552,023 which pretty much matches my top end dummy damage of 552073. that's over HALF (52.29%) my damage that will be effected.

1.25 to 4 seconds is 31.25% so dps will shoot down to 90214 for spreadshot.. that's 198,473 DPS I'm losing (from 288637). taking me from 552023 damage.. to 353,600 at top end, a 36% nerf. considering how much dps i would do on any other class with the same gear my ranger has.. that's a ridiculous nerf.

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1.25 to 4 seconds is 31.25% so dps will shoot down to 90214 for spreadshot.. that's 198,473 DPS I'm losing (from 288637). taking me from 552023 damage.. to 353,600 at top end. considering how much dps i would do on any other class with the same gear my ranger has.. that's a ridiculous nerf.


That's EXACTLY the point I tried getting across to one trendy employee. Over at http://forums.trendyent.com/showthread.php?34351-Question-about-the-huntress-Hunter-Nerf/page2

He claims Invis is actually useful and the fact that we are ranged means we should be nerfed. He fails to mention AND Counter-argue, that Monks have a Double Damage healing Aura to keep them safe, Apps have insane single target DPS and can instantly repair(or anything for that matter) proximity mines that do 100k+ damage with an APP pet, and Squires multi-hit cleave and can press a button and become god.

But hey, at least we have invisibility. huehuehuehuehue

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hey man, comparing damage abilities to a passive, mana costing ability that can be seen by the most rediculous mobs in the game is totally fair. "you can just go invisible. it's great!" unless you're playing any later game modes with DEWs who can see through it and rape you. oh but we can piercing shot them now if they get too close if we have an elemental weapon. nope. gotta wait 4 seconds in between each one now. elemental weapons are useless for huntresses now. gg.

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Poor community moral decision. Just flat out sucks regardless of the gameplay merits. People put time and effort into their character and this decision feels like a direct affront to those people. Some part of this decision was not thought through very well. Waiting on a patch for the decision making process at Trendy.

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hey man, comparing damage abilities to a passive, mana costing ability that can be seen by the most rediculous mobs in the game is totally fair. "you can just go invisible. it's great!" unless you're playing any later game modes with DEWs who can see through it and rape you. oh but we can piercing shot them now if they get too close if we have an elemental weapon. nope. gotta wait 4 seconds in between each one now. elemental weapons are useless for huntresses now. gg.


That's pretty much what I wanted to say. In fear of getting banned/ridiculed. /internetbrofist

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That's pretty much what I wanted to say. In fear of getting banned/ridiculed. /internetbrofist


Someone has to say it. If i get banned for voicing my opinion and not breaking a rule, oh well. just means i won. i dont see that happening though.

Poor community moral decision. Just flat out sucks regardless of the gameplay merits. People put time and effort into their character and this decision feels like a direct affront to those people. Thinking decisions through is not someone's strong suit.


This is strictly my opinion. Yes they are trying to improve the game. However, I see them doing it improperly. Instead of doing incrememental testing, they slap a % on a change, do a little testing and release it in the patch. they might do testing on it first, but its not enough. That's why so many people consider this game still in beta phase. We literally do the testing when a patch is released. If you look at a majority of the previous patches, you can see them tweaking percentages pretty substantially. by tweaking i mean going from a 40% nerf to a 20% buff then another buff because they overnerfed it. There needs to be more people testing these modifications instead of just a handful of people. More is better in terms of testing. The game went from "do what the players want" to "consider their opinions but do what we want most of the time". used to be way more dev activity in the suggestions section but most of the replies now fall into general discussion. i also find it funny that threads are being closed for being about the new patch, but a moderator made a thread in regard to it instead of just posting it in the proper discussion.

in all respect it's their game so they can do what they want. but you cant ignore the number of people quitting the game. had 11 friends on my list who played and im the last one. and even i cant stand having to farm endlessly just to get anywhere anymore. never had an issue playing for hours at a time. now i literally do like 3 runs then quit out of boredom. hoping this patch changes that.

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