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That's all I wanted to say. I'm not one of those Trendy haters, I'm just tired of that argument. If you agree or disagree put a vote in and don't flame like I just offended your ******. This isn't a thread to bash or defend anything else.

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What argument? To me, I don't care how much content there is. I care how long it keeps me entertained. 250 hours is ridiculous for such a small game, and yet that's what I have so far.

If they had 100x the content, but I only had fun for 5 hours, then it would be a crappy game.

Edit: Actually, 5 hours for $15 is better than some AAA titles, but my point stands. ;)

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Have to agree with keyonte0...i got a decent amount of fun from this game but stopped playing when i realized that all there was left to do was chasing higher numbers for no apparent reason...more mana, higher stats...just didnt appeal to me anymore.

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Enjoyment = Hours invested

You would not invest time if you didn't find it enjoyable...

Value = Cost/Hours Invested

Content leads to more hours invested.

The lack of content actually can reduce Hours invested but not always...

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To follow up on this, hours is probably the best proxy we have for evaluating utility. "Content" is a fairly nebulous concept. For example does Skyrim have more content than SC2? - Single player campaign for SC2 is super short and I just play the same games OVER and OVER again on ladder!

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I'm not talking about replay value or the fun factor. I'm talking about sheer content, but I never said that the game MUST have lots of content. Also, let me ask you, does all the backtracking and grinding one must do in your typical poorly made RPG equal fun?

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[QUOTE]I'm not talking about replay value or the fun factor. I'm talking about sheer content, but I never said that the game MUST have lots of content. Also, let me ask you, does all the backtracking and grinding one must do in your typical poorly made RPG equal fun? [/QUOTE]

That's a fair point. I can think of many poorly designed games where the player is forced to backtrack in order to progress. I would argue that this is not the case in DD since you can beat the game without grinding.

That being said, I feel that DD does an excellent job of executing the formula which made D2 successful - that is to say crafting incentives to encourage players to play long after they've beaten the game. The difference here is players are not forced to grind in order to progress but rather they choose to grind because it makes them happy.

Edit: Also to address the point regarding content, I would much rather play a game that is fun with minimal "content" than play a game that isn't fun that has a ton of "content". Again, I'm still not sure what the "content" means to you. Could you clarify?

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Have to agree with keyonte0...i got a decent amount of fun from this game but stopped playing when i realized that all there was left to do was chasing higher numbers for no apparent reason...more mana, higher stats...just didnt appeal to me anymore.


That's the same reason I quit WoW. But what I like about DD is you only pay for extras and not just for the privilege of playing on TrendyNet so you can stop playing for a while and come back later and not have to buy anything just to enjoy the game when you want to.

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I'm not talking about replay value or the fun factor. I'm talking about sheer content, but I never said that the game MUST have lots of content. Also, let me ask you, does all the backtracking and grinding one must do in your typical poorly made RPG equal fun?


I don't get it, if you are not talking about the replay value or the fun factor then what?

The sheer content and hours relate because apparently there is something keeping your time on tick.

The backtracking and grinding is most common in every RPG. It's just a way to grow the character you are technically role-playing. It is fun when you play with friends and do random things. It isn't when you are trying to hard to get something to work. That's when you walk away if it starts to get boring. (no one is forcing you to do so except your own mentality)

As far as I see it, if its something you don't like. There are other games for example like Magica. Amazing fun game that only gets boring after a single run through. Sure there are technically content, but without the rpg collective, growth element there is nothing left but a single stroke.

IMO if this is bugging you and you are not having fun then go outside and get some fresh air, do something else or play another game.

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True backtracking and grinding is part of RPGs but most often it does not mean grinding in a single place for 50 hours to get be able to beat another part that need grinding too. Most older RPG made it so it didn't require to spend loads of hours just to be able to beat a single stage and in those game levels actually gave a lot more power than in DD.

I played L4D around 200h and L4D2 aroudn 100h. None had any rpg element in them but the way you could get attacked and do an attack was a lot of fun, game doesn't need RPG element to be long living. BF3 took around 50-60h for me to get to the rank where all the weapons are unlocked but still have those weapon unlocks left. Sure RPG in them but people have stuck to a single weapon and never bothered to switch after gotten it. There are loads of other game that have zero rpg but still lives on.

Most of us are not asking to be given everything from the start, but just cut down the time between reaching level 70 and getting to UMF

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I agree with the OP.

I have 275 hours put into the game. Countless ammounts of those hours are spent afking maps.

The current things I do in this game is boot it up, set up defenses, Use the steam overlay to surf the web.
Holy **** that's some intense and engaging game play.

Now dont get me wrong I love this game but to all the people saying

OH WELL I HAVE 500 HOURS IN THIS GAME THATS BETTER THAN AAA HURRR TITLE (Which fyi: Most AAA titles suck now, thats a surprise)

I have 726 in tf2, by your stupid logic they should be paying me.
But I don't want them to, because a good chunk of that time is idling and I know that its the same deal with DD, most of my time is spent idiling because survival is broken garbage or leveling alts by afk runs.

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[QUOTE]The current things I do in this game is boot it up, set up defenses, Use the steam overlay to surf the web.
Holy **** that's some intense and engaging game play.[/QUOTE]

I would love to see an AFK setup for UMF. PM me please.

[QUOTE]OH WELL I HAVE 500 HOURS IN THIS GAME THATS BETTER THAN AAA HURRR TITLE (Which fyi: Most AAA titles suck now, thats a surprise)[/QUOTE]

So all video games suck? Please enlighten me as to where else $15 will buy me even 10 hours of entertainment.
[QUOTE]
I have 726 in tf2, by your stupid logic they should be paying me.
But I don't want them to, because a good chunk of that time is idling and I know that its the same deal with DD, most of my time is spent idiling because survival is broken garbage or leveling alts by afk runs. [/QUOTE]

The fact that you choose to idle and play game modes which are not challenging for your character doesn't mean that the game is broken. I could go afk farm in Normal Catacombs in Diablo 2. Does that mean that game sucks?

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I have 726 in tf2, by your stupid logic they should be paying me.
But I don't want them to, because a good chunk of that time is idling and I know that its the same deal with DD, most of my time is spent idiling because survival is broken garbage or leveling alts by afk runs.

That's your case only. Most of my time in DD I have spent it having fun. Crazy, I know.

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The fact that you choose to idle and play game modes which are not challenging for your character doesn't mean that the game is broken. I could go afk farm in Normal Catacombs in Diablo 2. Does that mean that game sucks?


There are times when that's the best you can do. I'm at a point now where all I can do for better money and loot is insane survival. The thing is, the first 19 waves are not challenging. With the setup I use, I really can just walk away and come back at the end of the wave to sell loot and start the next wave. The thing is, I've never made it to 25. And I can't make it past the first round of UMF.

There is nowhere in the game that is challenging for me that doesn't involve 3+ hours of unchallenging content to reach.

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There is nowhere in the game that is challenging for me that doesn't involve 3+ hours of unchallenging content to reach.


It's worth noting that I expect this to change after the DLC today, though. ;)

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[QUOTE]The thing is, the first 19 waves are not challenging. With the setup I use, I really can just walk away and come back at the end of the wave to sell loot and start the next wave. The thing is, I've never made it to 25. And I can't make it past the first round of UMF. [/QUOTE]

If this is the case there's a fundamental problem with the game design. This type of gap should never exist.

In other words, you should be able to gear up enough from survival to then farm MM survival and then do UMF after that.

If it is possible for a player to get stuck at any point in that chain, TE should address it.

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That's your case only. Most of my time in DD I have spent it having fun. Crazy, I know.


Astra STOP LYING!!! FUN DD NO WAI!!!

Same. only time I have AFK shop up is during classes or when I'm studying.

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I would love to see an AFK setup for UMF. PM me please.

Oh my aren't you a card eh?
Where did I say I was even doing UMF?


[QUOTE] So all video games suck? Please enlighten me as to where else $15 will buy me even 10 hours of entertainment.[/QUOTE]

Once again you are a card. First off I said most AAA titles not anywhere close to all video games. And even if I listed a damn long list of video games you would nit pick them out and make new criteria for a new list and ask me to do it again.


[QUOTE] The fact that you choose to idle and play game modes which are not challenging for your character doesn't mean that the game is broken. I could go afk farm in Normal Catacombs in Diablo 2. Does that mean that game sucks?[/QUOTE]

Seeing someone afk diablo 2 would be interesting, I wonder how you got out of town in the first place.
And second off, Yes, I pretty much have to farm survival now, which entails a **** ton of time afk'ed waiting for a decent challenge in the wave (I hear the ogre tune, pop out of the overlay, Kill it, go back to said overlay)

That's your case only. Most of my time in DD I have spent it having fun. Crazy, I know.


Yes because unless I explicitly state I had fun once playing the game, I apparently never had.

And sure I do still have fun with it depending on what I am doing.

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I think the DLC's are worth it. I bought the game when it was on sale for 3$, I've put about 60hours into it, while Skyrim I've bought for 60$ I've put 59hours into it. I haven't even bought any DLC's yet.

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[QUOTE]Oh my aren't you a card eh? Where did I say I was even doing UMF?[/QUOTE]

My argument is that you shouldn't complain about the engagement level of the game if you aren't tackling the hardest content. I also found Survival MM to be mind numbing but UMF is actually fun (especially if you actually use the environment instead of dps spamming with huntress).

[QUOTE]Once again you are a card. First off I said most AAA titles not anywhere close to all video games. And even if I listed a damn long list of video games you would nit pick them out and make new criteria for a new list and ask me to do it again.[/QUOTE]

My mistake. I still maintain that DD is significantly above average in terms of value.

[quote]Seeing someone afk diablo 2 would be interesting, I wonder how you got out of town in the first place.
And second off, Yes, I pretty much have to farm survival now, which entails a **** ton of time afk'ed waiting for a decent challenge in the wave (I hear the ogre tune, pop out of the overlay, Kill it, go back to said overlay)[/quote]

This gets at the crux of the problem. In my opinion survival and MM survival are absolutely horrible in terms of game design. There is no reason you should have to mindlessly play through 19 waves (4 hours sometimes) to get to a challenging level. That's akin to making someone play through the entire D2 campaign to do a Baal run. Hopefully the new DLC resolves this.

As i stated above, UMF is great. The problem is the fact that survival seems to be one of the few ways to get geared enough for this challenge.

At the same time, you've already put in 275 hours... I feel like you should probably have enough gear for UMF....

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