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"The Rich Get Richer" part 2 (no flames please)


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Guess who wants the Turkey costume? This guy!
Guess who wants to earn the Turkey costume? This guy!
Guess who doesn't want the Turkey Hunt dumbed down and made easier? This guy!
Honestly it would be sweet to do UMF runs but I'm not even close to that level yet I've only been playing 70 hours so far, there is one thing that makes things not worth having, and thats not having to work for the things worth having. I realize you don't seem to have the time, but that Isn't the developers fault.

Heres a suggestion, stop playing on Trendynet with your ranked characters look into mods that make the game easier, and might give you what you want. You can't hold yourself to the same standard as a single individual or someone who simply has the time to invest in a game that requires time. All I'm seeing here now is complaining because the game doesn't cater to those with tighter time constraints.

Being responsible sucks, I know so I feel you, but its not the games fault you're a father and have a family, you should be proud of that fact and I know you have to have your hobbies but just look at it this way, the more time and work you put in the prouder you should be of your accomplishments in the end.



Hey =)

Thanks for the reasonable response... and I actually did try to download an infinite mana map... (cheating) for Open... the problem is that I play Open with my brother... and I can't figure out a way to seperate a "cheater" account with a "legit" account... even though on the start up menus there are 4 slots... it SEEMS like you should be able to have multiple little "mini" accounts.... for lack of better wording. But if I loaded 1billion mana in Open, it would impact my brother's and my progress.... otherwise... I probably would just do that. ;)

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It's not cheating if "anything goes".

Arn't you looking for something that impacts your progress? That's what you've been complaining about for the past 2 threads and 20+ posts.

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JDanford the problem is you cannot complete easy UMF to get gear to complete Medium, to get gear to complete Hard. to get gear to complete insane. the progression from glitter insane to UMF insane requires you to have better gear then you can get w/o doing survival (assuming you don't have the mana to buy something from a shop, or refuse to buy something from a shop).


Why do you feel the progression should be from glitter insane straight to umf? The original challenges, insane spook, and survival are all just as hard, if not harder than insane glitterhelm.

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Interesting....

actually my brother just emailed me and says the following:

"I kind of wonder about Dungeon Defenders - it is an odd beast. I'm not sure that I like the "grindy" aspect of the game, and I'm wondering about the "late game" aspects. I like completing goals in games, and I'm not sure what the overall point of Dungeon Defenders is, once you complete all the levels. You can try them on hard/insane, I guess, and it looks like running through the challenges will be fun too. I do wanna try to finish some of those ones that we have been trying... but beyond that, I don't see myself getting into much of the equipment aspect of the game... fun anyways!"

So... the truth is: we don't get it. And we don't want to be stuck just running the same levels over and over 1000 times just to get mana... because we don't have 4-6 hours for 1 sitting... hell... 1-2 hours in 1 sitting is stretching things.

What does that have to do with my post? ;/ This game isn't for everyone. It's a pretty big grindfest for the most part. I kind of enjoy that because it gives you a sense of accomplishment after you reach certain points. You worked and earned that piece of gear! Conglaturations! (props for knowing reference) Don't ask to be on equal levels with 1/10th time put in. If you can't do survival why should you be given a break and brought up to the levels of people who did go through it? These are ideas for future content. There's not really fairness in changing current content until future content is released to trivialize this content otherwise people who did put in the work will feel cheated that they could have waited and gotten just as far as they have now.

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basically what he wants is spend an hour or two and get top gears while hardcore players grinds for 4-5 hours for same gear

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@theguy: iUMF takes 1 hours from tavern crystal to rewards. those 30 minutes is just combat time, not including build time.
Another thing I've noticed while reading your reply's is that you see mana gains per map as something that should net you millions. You are not considering selling pets from the shop. I said a few times over these forums that glitter insane or hard could give you good to great pets to sell.

I'll agree with another poster that you complain about your wife and kid about lack of play time. my question is if you have a wife and kid why are you so focused in beating insane umf? shouldn't you be spending more time with them and less with this game? I suspect that you will not be playing after the new years.

Now maybe i missed it, i did skip 4 pages, what is the layout you have been using?
this is mine.



and p.s. open mode is for anything goes, even cheating and exploiting. i personally love that mana map to test out max damage of weapons, armor and pets.

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Just as a reminder, the game was designed for the campaign and the challenges. It was not designed for the sustained 100-300 hour players. I'm stunned that users are getting this much enjoyment. Having learned that players want this we are attempting to create this 'late game'.

And what I mean with the Holiday Challenge coming up is that I feel progression is better.

But as always I enjoy the feedback :) As long as it is kept civil!

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basically what he wants is spend an hour or two and get top gears while hardcore players grinds for 4-5 hours for same gear



No... you are wrong. I don't know how many times I have to say that... I guess you didn't read the entire thread as this is probably the 4th or so time I've said I don't mind being a tier behind... and am NOT looking for the best gear. But I don't believe the progression in this game is figured out.

That being said: you currently have an elite map that gives you top gear that you can complete in 30-35 mins... with gains of 15-20mil mana per hour.

Why is there not an equal map like this for every tier/step for "mid" game?

You can get 20-28 ups from 20-30min Hard Glitter. with 2-4mil mana/hour gains.

Where are the 30->40 ups for 30-40mins... with 10-15mil mana/hour gains.


It just seems to be missing a step... and someone who only has 1-2 hours of play per sitting seams to get infinatly stuck with "tier1" land with no hope of progressing....


Not to mention 20-28ups from my maps aren't valuable to anyone.




But it sounds like they understand how they want the progression from the latest dev post... and it sounds like they acknowledge there is currently a gap in progression.... so that's a good step forward.

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Let me conclude this by saying, you won't be able to grind top gear if you played for 2-3 hours.

Even if you played and grind for 24/7, it is not possible to get the top gear.

Top gear are for those 24/7 players who had a free window of opportunity to get during the mishaps of UMF.

Currently you cannot get anything close to what the pre-patched offers.

You are screwed from the top gear and being super rich, so am I. (unless you use 3rd party programs, (wannabe hackers))

Therefore the values of items we have are technically next to nothing, unless you are one of those pre-patched 24/7 players.

So we are technically all dirt poor compared to those from pre-patch.

No point in competing with something you can't obtain.

So with that, go have fun or don't. There is no point at this time.

Until next screw over content.

- ktbanh

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No... you are wrong. I don't know how many times I have to say that... I guess you didn't read the entire thread as this is probably the 4th or so time I've said I don't mind being a tier behind... and am NOT looking for the best gear. But I don't believe the progression in this game is figured out.

That being said: you currently have an elite map that gives you top gear that you can complete in 30-35 mins... with gains of 15-20mil mana per hour.

Why is there not an equal map like this for every tier/step for "mid" game?

You can get 20-28 ups from 20-30min Hard Glitter. with 2-4mil mana/hour gains.

Where are the 30->40 ups for 30-40mins... with 10-15mil mana/hour gains.


It just seems to be missing a step... and someone who only has 1-2 hours of play per sitting seams to get infinatly stuck with "tier1" land with no hope of progressing....


Not to mention 20-28ups from my maps aren't valuable to anyone.




But it sounds like they understand how they want the progression from the latest dev post... and it sounds like they acknowledge there is currently a gap in progression.... so that's a good step forward.


It's not missing a step. YOU'RE missing a step. You're ignoring survival.

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[QUOTE]Guess who is very jealous that there is a map designed to be 30-40 mins that gives all the ultra-ultimate loot + CRAZY AS HELL mana gains... THIS GUY
Guess who wonders why there isn't an equal 30-40 min map with 35-40 ups and 8-15mil mana/hour gains... THIS GUY[/QUOTE]

I dont understand this. What is stopping you from running UMF....on medium. Hard. etc. Same map, same time, adjusted loots/mana based on difficulty. You are asking for something thats already there.

The progression isnt insane summit>insane glitter>insane UMF. Its insane summit>hard/insane glitter>medium/hard/insane survival>medium/hard/insane UMF. You cant make a literal progression just based on insane.

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That being said: you currently have an elite map that gives you top gear that you can complete in 30-35 mins... with gains of 15-20mil mana per hour.


again, it takes 1 hour to complete iUMF. Not 30 minutes.


Where are the 30->40 ups for 30-40mins... with 10-15mil mana/hour gains.


it's Medium and Hard UMF, then you sell dropped items you didn't equip to players via the afk shop. (no different then keeping something on the AH in WoW).

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@theguy: iUMF takes 1 hours from tavern crystal to rewards. those 30 minutes is just combat time, not including build time.
Another thing I've noticed while reading your reply's is that you see mana gains per map as something that should net you millions. You are not considering selling pets from the shop. I said a few times over these forums that glitter insane or hard could give you good to great pets to sell.

I'll agree with another poster that you complain about your wife and kid about lack of play time. my question is if you have a wife and kid why are you so focused in beating insane umf? shouldn't you be spending more time with them and less with this game? I suspect that you will not be playing after the new years.

Now maybe i missed it, i did skip 4 pages, what is the layout you have been using?
this is mine.



and p.s. open mode is for anything goes, even cheating and exploiting. i personally love that mana map to test out max damage of weapons, armor and pets.



I never once complained about my wife and kid... period. I am stating that I have 1-2 hours of play time in a sitting... usually when they are both in bed... they obviously have always... and will always for ever after take top priority in my life....

That being said... my complaint is currently with the division of the progression system.

While I have 1-2 hours of play... and I am willing to invest that time night after night.... I will never progress to UMF "properly" through running up the upgrade progression chain... because the 30->45 ups are currently locked in HOURS long maps... and the latest 30-50 min map that has 40->60 ups and 15-20mil mana/hour would have been unattainable to me... and basically just out of grasp....

Locked in to 20-28 ups with 4-6mil mana/hour.... how long until UMF? (I get that, yes, there are "people" disproving this statement... there were also people who attempted to down the Lich-King in WOW wearing only green items... that doesn't mean anything to you possibly... but there are absolutely a set of people who LOVE to max-challange themselves by thinking so far around "the box" that they are able to figure some crazy off-the-wall tactics or whatever.... I may know some martial-arts... but does that mean I want to get into a fight with 6 gun-wielding goons? No... not my thing, sorry) For those of us actually attempting to "progress" to UMF following, say, 300-350 skills + 100-150k DPS... it's very very very challenging and time consuming.... it's all about Mana... and currently the mana gained from "stage 1" of the game is too low... and "stage 1" players have ZERO to offer the AFK....

bah you know what? Forget it. Holy ****... this is so not worth my time.


You guys are right... I'm wrong.


Enjoy your game with 100 people playing it. You obviously don't really want my feedback.... none of you do. This game is PERFECT with ZERO flaws. I am bad. GG. The end. Etc.


I've obviously failed in 2 threads to make my point. So.... this is me saying no more. I'll tap out for good. Too bad. Because I actually do love the game. It's a shame there is a very wide gap between start and end. Peace out.

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Do spooky insane... its an hour map and you get good weapons. They should boost you through IMG enough to.get 40-50^ armor and weapons. Then upgrade those to complete it.

I know this works since I've person ally done this myself...

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dotdotdot.


You're forgetting what was just said. The game was designed for campaign+challenges. If anything, you paid for that and everything else is ultimately bonus extra material. While it's nice for it to be balanced and fully working in progression, it's not always going to work out as planned. This being their first few "tiers" of the game, cut them some slack of the progression design and quit complaining that it took a hacked weapon to do UMF. With hope, the next set of content will be properly tuned and will prove better than the current. I'll stick it out for that content as will many others.

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It's not missing a step. YOU'RE missing a step. You're ignoring survival.


exactly! what i dont understand is why is he jumping on "insane"

you complaint you dont wanna do repeat same level map over and over again (its what hardcore player called "grinding") what do you think us hardcore player doing right now? i have the best gears and cant get any btter till next DLC so i grind away so i can afford/save till next gear

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While I have 1-2 hours of play... and I am willing to invest that time night after night.... I will never progress to UMF "properly" through running up the upgrade progression chain... because the 30->45 ups are currently locked in HOURS long maps... and the latest 30-50 min map that has 40->60 ups and 15-20mil mana/hour would have been unattainable to me... and basically just out of grasp....


you keep saying progress to UMF. i believe you mean progress to insane UMF. being casual you should complete medium or hard before heading face in toward insane. Doing Medium is much faster then survival or mixed mode for gear.

I've asked for your layout, I haven't seen it or a post to where you linked it. http://html5.cubicleninja.com/dd/index.htm is the link. It's ok to ask for help for your layout.

Have you completed easy or medium or hard UFM? I know for a fact that 40-50^ gear drops from medium and hard. Time should be about an hour to complete (from tavern crystal to rewards). if you don't make it that far, grab loot, find upgrades and try again.

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I didn't have problems doing UMF with no UMF gear. I had problems COMPLETING and posted my frustration before on wave 13-14. (I couldn't complete them in time with ogres spawning at 30 seconds)

But by being able to do UMF without UMF gear for even a few levels, I obtained gear to help me complete it.

Doing UMF without UMF gear is possible. Completing it is the hard part.

Why on earth would you try to cheat, then failed in attempt to do so and complain. I don't see the logical point in that.

That my friend is you being unorganized, unplanned, (cheating seriously?).

I take it that this thread's sole purpose is to whine with no improvement to better yourself or do anything constructive.

Oh, as a note you can obtain good enough gear that doesn't take 200 hours from halloween map. It drops enough decent to last you through 1-2 rounds of UMF.

But seriously again, why would you cheat, aka wannabehacker using pre-made editors/programs.

/spits on cheating thread

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Sounds like you just aren't very good at this game. 100-200 hours.. lol.


sounds like youre a Ignorant lol... Hours doesnt mean anything in this game ... AFK survivals . afk any thing . afk shops makes click ? xD

most hours are afk.

and yes the rich get richer

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UMF requires around 300 hero attack, probably a 60-70^ weapon(Melee, piercing of the sorts), and just good trappers/aura monks to complete it.

You don't need those 90^ weapons. They just make it easier/EASY

I've farmed survival for a long time to get good enough armors and a decent weapon for UMF, and doing it I found slightly better weapons.

Capitalism: Everyone gets the chance to participate, it does not mean that they deserve everything at their whim. You are participating in order to try to get better gear. Participation does not guarantee anything, does not guarantee success or failure.

Also, there is the fact that I've seen players that are smart and players that have 90^ weapons and still suck at the game. If you know how to properly position yourself and your weapon to maximize dps, you will do fine.

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