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A question for those of you who consider yourselves "casual gamers".


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DISCLAIMER: I'm including a poll with this (as is my habit with patch notes posts.) I 'm only including it because I feel they give me, as well as other readers, an insight as to the general opinion of the people who read this thread, and it should in no way be assumed that the results of this poll apply to the entire dungeon defenders gaming community.



Hey guys,

So I was sitting here reading all the posts about people who are very concerned about the scaling of the new mythic level loot. I admit I'm worried they're going to encounter the same balance issues they had during the 7.10 and 7.12b fiascos.

I consider myself a "hardcore" type gamer. I play alot. (though not at the expense of real life/family) Duo Uber monster fest on a regular basis. Have great gear (50-70^ armor, 80-90^ weps) which I got mostly through trading, borrowing, and grinding up from hard, to insane, to surivival, to mixed, to umf. I'd like to add that this level of loot, while not entirely farmable even at endgame levels right now, is still obtainable through trading on the forums (which we all obviously view/use) It's taken me a while, and while I still have fun playing and have no intention of stopping, I am one of those people who hope that I'll find upgrades and new challenges with nightmare mode. Honestly the 15th can't really come soon enough in my opinion.

What I really don't understand is why the casual gamers are so worried about the raise in loot quality. I don't really understand how a group of people who play casually are effected by this at all. I'm not trying to be rude in any way shape or form by asking this. I just don't get it. I mean.... a group of casual gamers in my view are people who play off and on for fun, who aren't spending the majority of their free time playing DD. This group of people in my eyes are the ones who are still achievement grinding, still farming out hard mode and insane mode, still leveling their 2nd toon up to 70. I don't understand why they're so effected by the loot cap going up. I understand wanting to be able to do all levels without issue, but isn't that why there are easier difficulty settings? To me a casual gamer would be content to run UMF on medium or hard, get better loot than they previously had before, and be content to run it until they could move on to some other facet of the game they were previously unable to do. I'd just like to get a good idea of why the hardcore group who has top end gear offends the casual gamers so much. It's not like we mean any ill will, and most of the really good players I run with are more than willing to give a leg up to those who are willing to put the time in. Hardcore endgame is not a hard point to reach, but it requires time and effort that many of the casual gamers simply don't want to commit to.

WHY DOES THIS SECTION OF THE COMMUNITY (WHO ADMITS THEY'RE CASUAL) GET OFFENDED WHEN THERE IS SOMETHING IN THE GAME TAHT IS A LITTLE BIT OUT OF THEIR REACH?

Please explain, and please be respectful of both hardcore and casual gamer groups.

I'm not out to offend anyone, or troll them, just gain an understanding.

Very Respectfully

Sachatten
~Skott~

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I agree with you Sach, It shouldn't affect them in any way. The only real ones it affects is the current hardcore people and the semi hardcore/casuals. I consider the hardcore/casuals to be the competitive type but not all the time in the world type. Some people may feel that by increasing the gear cap/level caps that catching up will be almost impossible. Some just want to be on even playing ground with other players. This is most likely why they "think" they care.

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I consider myself one of the "semi-hardcore" that Lathyris mentions. Competitive, and I can (and do) devote entire weekends to the game, but I simply can't do the daily commitment of the "true" hardcores. If patches came and actually stayed (not immediately nerfed like the past couple) then time would roll around to when I could commit those 8 hours. But when new loot is given, then stripped away, those who are semi hardcore feel the biggest hit, as it just widens the gap.

Its hard to compete with someone when your weapon has 75^ and theirs has 95...

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Whatever the game devs decides to add, it wont effect people playing for fun UNLESS it allows other players that are able to use anything from those additions to grief in-game.

People with superloot just play a few gamemodes, so they don't go into "normal" rooms anyway, and no one on my group that I play locally with has/wants superloot at this stage - either aquired or given - as all its useful for is farming UMF and running Survival to high waves to guess what - get more of it.

Using a Borderlands example I used with a mate: If after doing everything in Borderlands, there was a couple of more maps that dropped gear that was twice as powerful as the rest of the game, once you have it you will no longer be able to play any third party maps made by people as they wont play "properly" anymore, ie you're over-balance, but I would have no problem getting such gear if a DLC came out that was designed that way.

We've played DD all the way through so we stopped atm and are playing other games until more content comes out.

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I am kinda sorry to bring this up, but I just have to: It's "affect", not "effect". "Effect" is for expressing what the actual effect is, "affect" is for expressing the effect-affected relation.

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it's hard to put my vote in this, without knowing how uber mythical gears are, and how hard to get them.

what if, the mythical gears are 500^ and is hard to get unless you have uber gears with 80^ weapon etc? my vote will go to "it'll give negative effect to casuals"

i'll give different vote if the mythical gears are about 100^ weapons and 70^ armors (which means the gap between them and godly atm isn't that big).

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I'm what you have defined as a casual player, so I'll chime in. Currently I don't think super loot, or mythic loot affects me. We just aren't playing the game the same way/aren't running in the same circles so to speak. What does concern me is that future content in the game may become inaccessible to casual players in order to provide a challenge to hardcore players. It's not that I don't think such content should be released, I just hope that is not all that comes out.

I'd be perfectly happy to buy an expansion campaign with 13 new levels (nicely tested), and maybe a new class or two, where I start over with level 1 PCs. I'm not very inclined to purchase new stuff that requires me to have a/many level 70+ fully geared character(s) to play at all - at least not in the foreseeable future.

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but WHY WHY WHY is this a negative affect(Spelling.) on the casuals? I don't understand. Nightmare mode by definition is going to be a targeted hard core gamer expansion. WHY do CASUAL gamers need to do this level of content? There are already 3 different game modes (easy, medium, hard) that are for people in this bracket to play on. How can it be a negaive impact on the casual gamers, when the casual gamer will most likely not even purchase the expansion/dlc that the new gear will need to apply to?

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it's hard to put my vote in this, without knowing how uber mythical gears are, and how hard to get them.

what if, the mythical gears are 500^ and is hard to get unless you have uber gears with 80^ weapon etc? my vote will go to "it'll give negative effect to casuals"

i'll give different vote if the mythical gears are about 100^ weapons and 70^ armors (which means the gap between them and godly atm isn't that big).


Since nightmare wasn't ever and isn't really meant for true casuals, I don't understand your possible issue with loot that will mist likely only come from that mode.

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I'm what you have defined as a casual player, so I'll chime in. Currently I don't think super loot, or mythic loot affects me. We just aren't playing the game the same way/aren't running in the same circles so to speak. What does concern me is that future content in the game may become inaccessible to casual players in order to provide a challenge to hardcore players. It's not that I don't think such content should be released, I just hope that is not all that comes out.

I'd be perfectly happy to buy an expansion campaign with 13 new levels (nicely tested), and maybe a new class or two, where I start over with level 1 PCs. I'm not very inclined to purchase new stuff that requires me to have a/many level 70+ fully geared character(s) to play at all - at least not in the foreseeable future.


This particular post, I believe is one of the most relevant responses to any thread I have ever posted for any game. I appreciate this answer and your insight into my query.

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My problem is this, the first wave of super loot caused a huge jump in difficulty for insane in general, putting "achievement grinding" into a much harder category than it would have otherwise been. If super loot does not affect overall game balance at all, great, I have no problem, but the increases in loot has without question caused an increase in difficulty across the board in response to it, directly affecting my game-play. As a complaint to the implementation of super-loot, I can say that I would one day like to attain it (keep in mind, casuals want to attain all the same thing you do, just at a slower pace) and the survival implementation especially stands as a direct barrier to a casual ever getting it simply due to the time commitment.

I personally have had DD running for close to 3 days now, (yay no DC) in an attempt to do a single insane alc survival run (not MM) and am still 3 waves from done, if I actually wanted to do this with friends instead of solo, I would be completely SOL.

One thing to note is that I am what one would consider a "casual" but I am probably a bit ahead of other casuals as I have been playing pretty much since the PC release, and did have a pretty hefty burst of activity in there while the progression was significantly faster/easier than it is today.

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To put in simply.

The fun of RPG is when you see your character processing. Better gears can be hard to find, it could take a lot of time and effort, but it has to be ACHIEVABLE (keyword here)

In the past, a run lasts only from 5 to 30mins, if you want something special (perfect blasticus?) you can go farm for it whenever you are free. If it takes a well-geared hardcore 10hrs to get one, a casual could do it in 12 14 or 15hrs. It's may be long but it's in your reach, just if you have enough patient.

Right now, the only way you can get better gears (processing your characters) is to do Survival which takes straight 8hrs that casual players- claimed to "have a life" - could not. They could spend 2hrs during break/waiting/dinner/... to do some runs, but not 8 consecutive hours. Good gears are simply out of reach and they feel stuck, unable to process, whine/cry/rage then quit :)

UMF was out last week that was supposed to fix the "casual" problem as it only takes 1hrs; unfortunately, since most of "casual" cannot do survival (else they wont need UMF ?_?) they dont have the required gears to beat it. They still stuck.

In short, people who play more DESERVE to have the gears FASTER, not BETTER, if one spends 10hrs in one night to get a piece of gear, "casual" who spend another 10hrs but in many separated nights should still also be able get that piece. It is the concept of ACHIEVABLE.

*Some arguments the "hardcore" presented:
+"Stop being lazy, go farm like us!" - If they dont want to farm, they should have quit:) What else do you do in this game?
+"Gears are now cheap, grind mana and buy it!" - Then what? They still stuck, unable to process further.
+"Why you want superloot if you dont want to do hard contents like survival?" - Cuz I want my characters to process, not stand still. If I dont want to then I should have quit.

*******************************************
What Nightmare can solve? (hopefully)
+Return value for boss and challenge reward - Return to 30-min run.
+Withdrawal of super-loot: smaller gap between "hardcore" and "casual", hardcore can have better gears, but not 100 vs 20 ups.

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Since nightmare wasn't ever and isn't really meant for true casuals, I don't understand your possible issue with loot that will mist likely only come from that mode.


yeah i had a bit of thinking. so i realised that my response isn't really about casuals or hardcores.

i realised that what i don't like about *too powerful* gears is that it trivialised most contents. sometimes i just want to play insane summit and the fun isn't there when i have *too powerful* gears. i even left my gears except weapon un-upgraded.

probably this will change with nightmare modes, as there will be more challenging maps.

and i do wish that the jump from now to mythical won't be too much.

again, this response isn't about casuals.

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Since nightmare wasn't ever and isn't really meant for true casuals, I don't understand your possible issue with loot that will mist likely only come from that mode.


Want to give a quick reply to this. All content should be "meant" for all players, casuals should simply move through it significantly more slowly than others. When you start saying that a part of the game is not "meant" for a group, that group is obviously going to get their panties in a bunch over it.

Edit/P.S. Big kudos to the OP for keeping both the OP and his responses thus far very civil and reasoned.

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It probably has no real effect, but I feel not having access to super-loot makes me feel behind and missing something. Not to mention it takes forever to farm mana.

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It probably has no real effect, but I feel not having access to super-loot makes me feel behind and missing something. Not to mention it takes forever to farm mana.
That's just a thing you will have to deal with. You can't both not spend as much time and effort playing this game as others do and keep up with them.
Except if the balance is broken, of course.

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Well I must say that the responses to this thread have been very very interesting on both sides of the coin. I feel that some of the more passionate responses deserve a bit of review.

LLanite, as someone who has personally gamed with you I feel that your opinion while valid need to be a bit tempered. I believe that the gear within the game, be you casual or hardcore, is completely attainable. I'll cite my own ingame story as an example.

So I'm a hardcore gamer right? Yes I do spend alot of time online. Last week during the beginning of uberfest, I was struggling to do that particular mission because my gear simply wasn't up to par. The clan I was with was not able to do 8 man content (we've remedied that) and I was unable to do 2 man or solo uberfest. I was stuck because the gear I had just wasn't up to par. My family life keeps me from being able to commit too much time to a single run so survival really was out of the question, and as uberfest really wasn't an option I found myself at an impasse. So I'd spend the time during the day grinding Insane Glitter, and Insane spook, (at the time still a bit of a struggle) and trying to pass the time while trendy fixed UMF's loot issue. The mana from these modes was kinda meh, and the items were not really that hot, however i found that the pets in the tavern shop were literally exactly inbetween the breaking point for gear, and the umf quality stuff. I farmed them both 1 or 2 times a day and was able to trade the subsequent pets I was getting for more mana and upgrades to my current gear. I went from 25-30^ armor, to 30-50^ armor, got better quality weapons and was able to buy the items that I needed out of various afk shops. I now have no trouble with UMF and over the course of a week of broken up grinding I'm right where an endgamer should be. Using the forums and the basic trading system that trendy has included in game and over their forums it is not out of anyone's reach to do exactly what i've done. Casual gamers can get endgame loot, and as has been stated it takes just a bit more time to do it.

Kehrab, I've got a brief response to you as well. I believe that the content that has been added is "meant" for everyone to play. I believe that once the casual gaming populous catches up to the level of play that the hard core gamers are currently at, they'll be thankful that there's yet more content and more options for them to partake in as they experience the full value the game has to offer them.

Lightz, I understand your view as well. I would say to you though that what you're describing happens in every online game I've ever played. You can't expect content that you've mastered on any given difficulty to become difficult again for you without rerolling characters. I can't tell you how many times I've wished I could replay some of my favorite games for the first time, completely ignorant of the solutions to the puzzles you've solved. It's honestly the difference between playing portal 2 co-op with the same partner and killing it, or playing it with a new partner and making them figure it all out. Either way you know the answer, and nothing is going to be quite as awesome as your first time through.


Well guys, sorry for another long post! Keep the opinions coming! Again, I appreciate you all being respectful of each other and not trolling the thread. I've gained alot of understanding and insight from this.


~Skott~

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Kehrab, I've got a brief response to you as well. I believe that the content that has been added is "meant" for everyone to play. I believe that once the casual gaming populous catches up to the level of play that the hard core gamers are currently at, they'll be thankful that there's yet more content and more options for them to partake in as they experience the full value the game has to offer them.


I think the biggest reason there has been backlash against super loot is not because there is super loot, but because of the debacle that was insane survival. That mode is distinctly not "meant" for casuals. No mater how many 30-90 minute chunks of time you throw at insane survival you will never get past wave 12 or anywhere near the super loot from that tier.

I do believe that trendy realized the error there, and will continue to put higher tiers of loot in things like UMF which are absolutely "meant" for everyone, but there is a group of people on (in this thread even) that believe that super loot should be in modes that are prohibitive to casuals on a level completely separate from their difficulty or gear requirements.

As an aside, you replied to my reply to one of the members of the above mentioned group, but did not comment on my original post's point that the introduction of super-loot caused a retroactive difficulty increase for non-super-loot rewarding modes, I would love to hear your thoughts on that dilemma and if it should continue to play out in future patches.

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Yes we casual can buy the gear from other shops or trade if we are lucky. Problem still is we have to farm a lot mana and while still being on the first few levels for each gear, they are not gonna make it super easy for us to get to uber monster fest.

1 run on Uber monster fest net you around 100mil last time I heard, for us casuals that equals about 20-50h of pure grinding. The higher levels dude now got a map with far easier farming and for far less time than us who are at the bottom.

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I would consider myself a casual gamer. I have about 130 hours played... with 100 over those being played before the halloween level came out. Since then I have played a few hours a week. In those first 100 hours I gained 4 level 70 chars, and gear good enough to beat halloween on hard... Since then, I have played for 1-2 hours at a time, a couple days a week.

While I have been able to gear myself through survival and mm... only made it to wave 14 on insane survival, and 11 on mm.
I have found upgrades, and I have found money to level up those upgrades decently enough. While I am not swimming in money, I do not have 1 piece of fully upgraded anything, I am happy with my progress. I actually cleared the first level of UMF insane for the very first time about 30 minutes ago... then promptly celebrated with a soda =)

While this may seem like very slow progress to the hardcore gamers, the casuals who complain about not catching the hardcore gamers are the ones that are lazy and wish they could have everything handed to them. The stance of "I don't have 4-6 hours to do survival... then mm.... the umf" means they cannot problem solve... I didn't have 4-6 hours... I had sometimes 30 minutes to an hour.... if I am lucky 2. Which I would either do glitter hard.. and make a little money while leveling up another character to eventually use later... or I would start survival and go until fail or I had to get off.

This new content would be great with a constant progression. If I can attempt deeper well, and struggle to beat it, but obtain a piece that would be an upgrade... I would be happy. I don't mind taking a while to pass content, I will be attempting to get to 2nd wave in umf tomorrow if I have time... if not then maybe the next day.

Only thing I don't wish is insane jumps in gear again, gradual progression is the most fun and most rewarding. If the gear jumps another 30^, that would be a little downing.

Sorry I am rambling on, just figured I would give my stance as a casual player. Yes I would love to have the best stuff and beat the hardest content, but I know I never will before new content comes out. You know what though? I will never get bored and never not have a goal to achieve, whereas the hardcore gamers that beat the new content in a week will have to wait for more content to feel that rush again. I feel the rush every time I beat a new wave =)

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My problem is this, the first wave of super loot caused a huge jump in difficulty for insane in general, putting "achievement grinding" into a much harder category than it would have otherwise been. If super loot does not affect overall game balance at all, great, I have no problem, but the increases in loot has without question caused an increase in difficulty across the board in response to it, directly affecting my game-play. As a complaint to the implementation of super-loot, I can say that I would one day like to attain it (keep in mind, casuals want to attain all the same thing you do, just at a slower pace) and the survival implementation especially stands as a direct barrier to a casual ever getting it simply due to the time commitment.

I personally have had DD running for close to 3 days now, (yay no DC) in an attempt to do a single insane alc survival run (not MM) and am still 3 waves from done, if I actually wanted to do this with friends instead of solo, I would be completely SOL.

One thing to note is that I am what one would consider a "casual" but I am probably a bit ahead of other casuals as I have been playing pretty much since the PC release, and did have a pretty hefty burst of activity in there while the progression was significantly faster/easier than it is today.


By request *wink*,

I feel you do have a legitimate concern. I feel that the game modes have been ramped up to allow for those players who do have some of the better loot in the game. This makes sense because the new content should present a new challenge to people across the board regardless of loot level, to maintain the interests of the entire group rather than just a single group. I believe that all groups are equally served by the new content because if you don't have the gear to do the insane levels of difficulty you can still do the lower levels of difficulty, and generally speaking, get good rewards for them. (i.e. zamaria set, van wolfs, various costumes in turkey hunt) I think the main thing people are getting hung up on is the need to be able to immediately complete any content that they first attempt. I think it getting bogged down by this need causes alot of discontent in the casual side. Take your own example for instance. You're running insane survival for 3 days straight. This is extreme because you need to work 3 days solid as a casual gamer to even get to the relevant loot. The solution in my eyes would be striving to get through 2 waves of umf insane solo. It's very doable with a single tower toon (monk preferably) and a single dps toon who you have intentionally leveled resists on. When I first attempted UMF I was wearing terrible armor, it was under 30 ups on each peice, and i had less than 300 hero damage after spending level points, my weapon was a whopping 50 ups, and the partner i went in with wasn't much better geared. It didn't take long to get better gear, even though we were only able to get through 2 or 3 waves MAX. Usually the 3rd wave was just us killing a few things then madly scrambling to pick up as much swag as we could. Eventually though we got better gear, and through the use of afk shops (a much much better use of your extra time i might add) we got the mana we needed to lvl it. Hitting end game is achievable, and in reach for both the casual gamers and the hardcores. Yes there are a few items in the game that are very hard to get due to a screw up by trendy in 7.12b, but you can still grind up to a point that you can complete all the content in the game, in a reasonable amount of time, and with a good amount of mana to back you up. All the tools are there, it's just a matter of having a clear idea of how to reach your destination.

I will also add that as far as game balance goes, I believe that if you've worked to get to the end game items, there is no way you can expect to get a challenge out of the earlier level content. It's not reasonable in an RPG, or in an MMO. Unless they raise the difficulty level of the game and make things harder there's no way a guy on any difficulty mode can finish glitterhelm without a hitch, then go back to an act 1 map and still struggle with it. The game is not designed that way, infact I really can't think of very many that are. (I can think of a few like final fantasy tactics) In order for them to make a game that would balance properly in that fashion, they'd need to create a difference engine that could evaluate the entire party's gear level, and scale minion power and health accordingly, so that the wave would always present a challenge. I don't think trendy should even dream about trying this until they get a good test server, and an appropriately scaled loot engine in place. I think it's too far a stretch for them as a company. I'm content with the system they have in place in this regard, although yes, it is frustrating waiting around for new content on occasion.

That's my take. Hope I'm not too off topic.
~Skott~

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but WHY WHY WHY is this a negative affect(Spelling.) on the casuals? I don't understand. Nightmare mode by definition is going to be a targeted hard core gamer expansion. WHY do CASUAL gamers need to do this level of content? There are already 3 different game modes (easy, medium, hard) that are for people in this bracket to play on. How can it be a negaive impact on the casual gamers, when the casual gamer will most likely not even purchase the expansion/dlc that the new gear will need to apply to?

Respectfully, I think you're overlooking an important aspect of human nature here. For those who enjoy this game, casual and hardcore alike, I think it would be safe to say that we want to see the game succeed and continue to grow. For a casual gamer, widening the gap between what they can accomplish and what you can accomplish does have a psychological impact. If the casual player feels that he is being neglected by Trendy he is far more likely to abandon the game and to discourage others from picking it up. Whether or not casual players need nightmare mode or Mythical loot isn't really relevant to how such a widening gap will affect the average casual player.

That siad, we don't yet know what will be required to progress into Nightmare difficulty or what Mythical will look like. Until we do, I think it's hard to say what will come of it.

-EDIT- [quote]I feel you do have a legitimate concern. I feel that the game modes have been ramped up to allow for those players who do have some of the better loot in the game. This makes sense because the new content should present a new challenge to people across the board regardless of loot level, to maintain the interests of the entire group rather than just a single group. I believe that all groups are equally served by the new content because if you don't have the gear to do the insane levels of difficulty you can still do the lower levels of difficulty, and generally speaking, get good rewards for them. (i.e. zamaria set, van wolfs, various costumes in turkey hunt) I think the main thing people are getting hung up on is the need to be able to immediately complete any content that they first attempt. I think it getting bogged down by this need causes alot of discontent in the casual side. Take your own example for instance. You're running insane survival for 3 days straight. This is extreme because you need to work 3 days solid as a casual gamer to even get to the relevant loot. The solution in my eyes would be striving to get through 2 waves of umf insane solo. It's very doable with a single tower toon (monk preferably) and a single dps toon who you have intentionally leveled resists on. When I first attempted UMF I was wearing terrible armor, it was under 30 ups on each peice, and i had less than 300 hero damage after spending level points, my weapon was a whopping 50 ups, and the partner i went in with wasn't much better geared. It didn't take long to get better gear, even though we were only able to get through 2 or 3 waves MAX. Usually the 3rd wave was just us killing a few things then madly scrambling to pick up as much swag as we could. Eventually though we got better gear, and through the use of afk shops (a much much better use of your extra time i might add) we got the mana we needed to lvl it. Hitting end game is achievable, and in reach for both the casual gamers and the hardcores. Yes there are a few items in the game that are very hard to get due to a screw up by trendy in 7.12b, but you can still grind up to a point that you can complete all the content in the game, in a reasonable amount of time, and with a good amount of mana to back you up. All the tools are there, it's just a matter of having a clear idea of how to reach your destination. [/quote] Very true. I, just over the past couple of days, broke the barrier of not believing UMF was possible for me as a casual. I didn't bring it up here because I was trying not to spam my thread about it, hehe.

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Personally if you understand the game mechanics and how theorycrafting (old wow term) of tower/hero dmg is applied - then you understand how the higher gears are great to have - but not essential. "Not standing in fire" and learn2dodge can be your friend until you get solid gears on your own in mix modes/survivals etc. If all else fails - the AFK shops are nice places to find good ^s for your mana - especially since you can farm Spook Hard with average gear.

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In a way, I believe it positively affects casual gamers by lowering the price on the current best. If you can't beat UMF (I haven't tried yet) now, the weapons available from it should be cheaper to buy from stores within a week. So there is that part. You can even save up to buy some Mythical loot to give yourself an even easier time.

On the other hand, it mucks up the economy. Several of the posts I have seen are not so much about the power of the new gear as they are about the fact that all the things that are available for only a short time cost freaking fortunes. Alright, so a casual player doesn't need that weapon. That doesn't mean that he/she won't look at it, get excited and want it only to realize that damn, I couldn't buy that if I saved all my mana for a month!

This is discouraging no matter how you look at it. You can say casual players shouldn't get excited about things they don't need. You can also tell the middle class to not bother dreaming about getting that Ferrari one day. Ain't gonna happen. At that point, people are being told not to enjoy parts of the game because they aren't good enough.

Furthermore, it seems that Trendy's solution to all the mana floating around is ever-increasing mana sinks, such as upped upgrade costs on weapons. This might work fine for the hardcore crowd who roll in eight-nine digits on selling a single weapon, but it slows down the casual crowd to a crawl. Right now, I have a 30M Guardian in my store that I would love to buy. I played for several hours yesterday, getting to 20M. At the same time, I wish to upgrade my bone bow I got a couple of weeks back - which would likely burn through most of that (34-44). So because SOME players are making a ton of mana, I get to either wait a long time for my weapon or my Guardian. That negatively affects my experience, because I feel like I'm being restricted by rules implemented to limit a different class of player altogether. I am the 99%.

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There seems to be a lot of text for such a simple issue. The problem isnt the loot, its the game types. As mentioned, Survival is too long thus only the hardcore can play it. Casual gameplay stops after the map Glitter and the Challenge maps. If Nightmare mode allows casuals to gear up then I guess we're ok with future content.

In saying that we have two problems...

1. Other then UMF, there is no content for casuals after the basic map types. They can't progress. Overall I think they need to realise the end game isnt with 80^ gear but more 35-40^. A shame really.

2. The increase in loot, costs, mana caps is splitting the community. A casual trying to join a basic game campaign map will get kicked as their gear type isnt 50^ or whatever (which is crazy, but happens heaps). Iv seen tons of complaints on the forums in regards to this issue. We have hardcores complaining about not being able to earn more then 100mil yet many can't earn more then 5-10mil. I laugh at those hardcore complaints. So funny.

I don't play anymore as I can't keep up the upgrades for my 5 characters. Im not crying, just saying Im playing something else. Im not one to grind. Grinding is for those who get paid real money. :)

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