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Things about UMF no one seems to know save a handful of people with functional brains


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1. Monster count doesn't scale over 4 players, meaning its easier to 8 man than 4 man or 3 man by comparison given people can pull their own weight. (starting wave insane 4 man: 812 mobs. Starting wave insane 8 man: 812 mobs)

2. Not getting hit > getting hit. Simple, obvious logic that no one seems to take into account when they pull out the usual "you need this many epeen in resistances before this and that blabla" 1 simple word saves the day here. l2dodge.

3. People with low scores don't automatically qualify as useless. If i pull 600k dps and someone else gets the kill, score doesn't go up. Stop assuming high score = more better or whatever argument you use here. This applies to everyone and their future grandchildren.

4. Hugging the center in a stack of auras is a fun, exciting way to lose with multiple people, especially if no one is running around, killing off strays, intercepting ogres and god knows what else moves like tar through a brick. Build your base, but don't depend on it. 5 entrances with 5 people means nothing gets through save the occasional ogre or flier or whatever.

5. If there's a monk / countess / adept running around with an active aura almost nonstop while not dealing damage, he is not a noob, he is not useless, he is your god, your counselor and your best friend, and you should try to respect the fact that some people actually care enough about the team as a whole to NOT jump on their huntress / app / whatever. People boosting other people's damage is a good thing, and you should be happy someone takes the effort to do so, because it helps. Provided this isn't 4 man, stop making ridiculous comments like "your score is so low bla bla you don't do anything".

That is all. If you would like to debate any of the above, feel free to, but don't expect me to care too much about it since this crap has been going on for over 4 days straight and it's getting so old, yet no one seems to learn anything.

Deal with it.
Cyriel.

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1. Monster count doesn't scale over 4 players, meaning its easier to 8 man than 4 man or 3 man by comparison given people can pull their own weight. (starting wave insane 4 man: 812 mobs. Starting wave insane 8 man: 812 mobs)

2. Not getting hit > getting hit. Simple, obvious logic that no one seems to take into account when they pull out the usual "you need this many epeen in resistances before this and that blabla" 1 simple word saves the day here. l2dodge.

3. People with low scores don't automatically qualify as useless. If i pull 600k dps and someone else gets the kill, score doesn't go up. Stop assuming high score = more better or whatever argument you use here. This applies to everyone and their future grandchildren.

4. Hugging the center in a stack of auras is a fun, exciting way to lose with multiple people, especially if no one is running around, killing off strays, intercepting ogres and god knows what else moves like tar through a brick. Build your base, but don't depend on it. 5 entrances with 5 people means nothing gets through save the occasional ogre or flier or whatever.

5. If there's a monk / countess / adept running around with an active aura almost nonstop while not dealing damage, he is not a noob, he is not useless, he is your god, your counselor and your best friend, and you should try to respect the fact that some people actually care enough about the team as a whole to NOT jump on their huntress / app / whatever. People boosting other people's damage is a good thing, and you should be happy someone takes the effort to do so, because it helps. Provided this isn't 4 man, stop making ridiculous comments like "your score is so low bla bla you don't do anything".

That is all. If you would like to debate any of the above, feel free to, but don't expect me to care too much about it since this crap has been going on for over 4 days straight and it's getting so old, yet no one seems to learn anything.

Deal with it.
Cyriel.


Guessing 1 too many runs didnt go well? :( thats why i hate to pug

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1) Yes

2) While latency problems have been improved, this map tends to have lots of lag problems with multiple players. Good luck "dodging" when you can barely control where you run. High resistances are not hard to get, are always useful, and are generally a good sign that a player knows how to allocate stats and not be completely useless. Plus with the sheer volume of enemies you are going to get knocked around eventually. Don't be the guy getting 2-shot by assassins.

3) Unless someone is intentionally knocking up their score by taking a busy route or something, the more useful players will generally get more last hits and their scores will be higher. There are exceptions (that I will mention in a bit), but in the groups I've been in it's no surprise that the worst players with the worst gear inevitably end up at or near the bottom of the chart.

4) It's very easy to set up auras/traps in such a way that you can easily clear the map in time while camping in the middle. You do not need someone running around in order to clear this map. In fact, having someone run without a fairy is a good way to drain your lives. If you have a good player who can roam, it's useful - but not necessary for winning. Since you seem so defensive about people judging your methods in this map, I think it's only fair to judge yours and point out that I've won everything from solo to 8-man insane UMF using a camping strategy.

5) Yes auras are very nice. But that doesn't mean you shouldn't be contributing to damage too. Huntresses are expected to have good damage AND good points in piercing shot. Likewise I would expect any good countess or monk to have good damage in addition to their ability. I wouldn't mind those classes contributing slightly less damage than a huntress, but running around with an aura while "not dealing damage" would be very frustrating to me if we were still losing the map.

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6. 90 seconds is not enough time to get 7 other people to join

7. 7 people don't like you enough to join

8. The 7 people with enough dps to join you and actually contribute are playing solo right now

9. Every time you kick a noob from your game for trying to get free loot you lose a life

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Your points are valid. To go into more detail why i wrote this:

1. people assume count goes up, so they 4 man. 1 person is around 240? ish mobs. 4 people get 812, which is approx 200 mobs per person (assuming all are dps). With 8 man this is ~100 per person, meaning less strain on individial players and overall easier to pull off a successful victory.

2. The reason i wrote this was because i see people running around and not bothering about jumping over ogre snot, wyvern fire or any kind of damage of the likes. Rather they run head on into it (even the host, by all technicalities he should be lag free). The main reason being is people rely too much on maxing resistances as opposed to trying to not get hit at all. This includes, but is not limited to:
- Not moving back from airborne assassins.
- Running head first into groups of zippies.
- Hugging ogres as a ranged class (app/monk excluded, they kind of have to in order to deal any damage)
- Not using the block function as a squire when there's a clear 5 second window between projectile fired -> projectile impact.

3. The example i've based this on was a group of 6 people, including me. I was 2nd on the score list after a loss in wave 4. People were complaining the 5th person had too little score, and proceeded to kick him. The 6th person left shortly after this, and overall it didnt make much sense to me.

From memory (might be off a lot, no screenshots)

1st had around 12k score
i had around 11k
3rd had close to 9k
4th had close to 9k
5th had close to 8k
6th had close to 8k

the first 3 in the list (excluding me) were agreeing that #5 and #6 needed more score because they "weren't doing enough". I've seen their kit, they had in the 60's weapons, better than me at this point, their armor was good as well and everything looked alright. And this made absolutely no sense to me, because the 5th (who was a monk) was almost constantly picking off ogres before they even reached the center of the map.

4. The reason for this was the 1st game i played today, featuring someone who made a single stack of auras in the center of the map, stood there with an app pet, and never even left the stack to turn around and shoot something. Before the 1st wave started, he told us to "stay center or we fail". we all did, we failed. Prior to this, 3 out of 5 current people offered to build. He said "no need, i got this" He got mad and ragequit. Point being, we all did exactly what we agreed to, stood dead center in that stack of auras (one hunter even made traps near choke points, had around 500~ trap stats) and we just downright lost.

5. By no damage i mean either he's doing little damage (less than the average damage that was done on that map) or he's not fully damage specced (hybrid, full point dump in hero boost). I've only had 1 occasion where i saw a full damage boost monk, with absolutely every single upgrade spent into that. He never died once, he always made sure he was the one between the dps and the ogres, and while doing very little damage himself, he made sure everyone close by got their damage output near tripled if not more. People called him a noob after we lost on wave 13(!) and thanks to him, it took us maybe 5 seconds of combined effort to take down a 8-9m hp ogre. I honest to god hope more people follow his example (but not all at once haha) because he was "credit to team". :)

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3... I play a squire and ogre stack 1-12, usually 4-8 at a time... my score is on the bottom 3rd. I do over 350k aoe damage to all the ogres and can drop them relatively fast compared to all other classes since 350k times 7(being my average late game stack) = 2,450k damage per second. Even stacking 2 I out dps the app by doing 700k.

I do not get many last hits... the huntresses who kill all the smaller mobs get a lot more then me usually... I found ogres give good points but if I didn't focus them and killed the smaller mobs I was 2nd to the huntress/tower builder combo player.

So what does score mean? Nothing much... the ogres will wreck a team who doesn't focus them properly and having everyone run after smaller.mobs to get a better score means nothing...

Tldr; score means little ifthe you know what you're doing...

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3... I play a squire and ogre stack 1-12, usually 4-8 at a time... my score is on the bottom 3rd. I do over 350k aoe damage to all the ogres and can drop them relatively fast compared to all other classes since 350k times 7(being my average late game stack) = 2,450k damage per second. Even stacking 2 I out dps the app by doing 700k.

I do not get many last hits... the huntresses who kill all the smaller mobs get a lot more then me usually... I found ogres give good points but if I didn't focus them and killed the smaller mobs I was 2nd to the huntress/tower builder combo player.

So what does score mean? Nothing much... the ogres will wreck a team who doesn't focus them properly and having everyone run after smaller.mobs to get a better score means nothing...

Tldr; score means little ifthe you know what you're doing...


Perfect example :)

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Those "aura stack in the center" guys are the ones that play solo most of the time. They haven't realized that their solo technique doesn't work when there's 5x as many monsters. The more monsters there are, the closer you have to kill them to the spawn point if you don't want to run out of time.

I see the same people in insane campaign maps like Summit or Glitterhelm where they think they can build towers and the towers will kill everything. They are almost always wrong because they don't account for the fact that there's a lot more monsters and the monsters have more hit points in a group so it changes the dynamic of the game. That nifty setup they got off the internet may have played itself solo but in a group everybody has to get out there and kick some tail or things like necromancers and warriors will thrash your towers or walk right through your aura and still be alive.

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Of course, I only have 87% physical resists, 51fire/50electric/14 poison

I have 3k hp, and dps 1~ mil, and people "laugh" at my resists, tbh I don't really ever get hit and if I do I can heal so fast it barely interrupts my movement

I agree anyway, but I haven't had many if any failures of this map because I tend to stay out of public games, the general playerbase just lacks teamwork, for any game really

I agree with this post ;p

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1)

yep that WOULD be great if u actually COULD do the map with 5+ ppl, but when ever we try that we end up in a giant uber lagg fest with ogres lagging behind u and not dropping hp for 20sec

have not been able to find ONE host that could host the map for more then 5 ppl


the map is easiest to solo or duo, with 3 or 4 players the mpb count is imo broken
starting wave:
1player: 160
2players: 260
3players: 600

so that means if u get a 3. player u have to kill 2,3x more creeps then with 2 players Oo didnt anyone at trendy notice a little problem with that? Oo

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1)

yep that WOULD be great if u actually COULD do the map with 5+ ppl, but when ever we try that we end up in a giant uber lagg fest with ogres lagging behind u and not dropping hp for 20sec

have not been able to find ONE host that could host the map for more then 5 ppl


the map is easiest to solo or duo, with 3 or 4 players the mpb count is imo broken
starting wave:
1player: 160
2players: 260
3players: 600

so that means if u get a 3. player u have to kill 2,3x more creeps then with 2 players Oo didnt anyone at trendy notice a little problem with that? Oo


For this same reason, it's much easier to 8 man instead of 4-5 man. I agree it doesn't compute, especially since it means "solo or all out group" but bear in mind that the increased damage done from a single person outweighs the amount of mobs added per person. Still needs fixing imo, especially for 3-4 players.

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A lot of people don't know about the giant fans that blow you up to the top level. Use them to get a more efficient build route for wave 7

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5. If there's a monk / countess / adept running around with an active aura almost nonstop while not dealing damage, he is not a noob, he is not useless, he is your god, your counselor and your best friend, and you should try to respect the fact that some people actually care enough about the team as a whole to NOT jump on their huntress / app / whatever. People boosting other people's damage is a good thing, and you should be happy someone takes the effort to do so, because it helps. Provided this isn't 4 man, stop making ridiculous comments like "your score is so low bla bla you don't do anything".


100% agree

My countess give to the team x2 damage, resist, self healing to party with fairy. Im not the best dmg dealer(only have average 35+ gear,55 weapon), but i can tank 6 ogres and mobs without any problem while huntress or apps kill them. Of course i can instant kill 7 mill hp ogres with joust, i kill 3 at the same time once, with only 5 sec left and save the wave for everyone.

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I can host ;) we had a lag fest with the other host but here comes Finally and were all golden ^__^


FINALLY

You wanna play dat Uber Monsterfest when I get off work? :squire:

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Here's some more:

Dont make Ensare Auras

Spread yourselves out, one base at the top and bottom should suffice.

Higher DPS =/ mean better. The key to this map is hitting more than 1 ogre at a given time. If you can hit more than 1 ogre and have high DPS you are a shoo in to contribute much in this map.

This map needs high levels of teamwork or alternatively high levels of gear, both would make this map a snorefest.

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I Monked this challenge up :)

Nothing beats a good Hero Boost and a few friends!

I have seen a few folks pull of a central base for camping. I prefer to come back to my multiple bases if my health/mana are getting low. I try to set up 'bases' next to fool proof escape routes, that way I can stay on the move. Basically run a circuit.

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[quote]

5. If there's a monk / countess / adept running around with an active aura almost nonstop while not dealing damage, he is not a noob, he is not useless, he is your god, your counselor and your best friend, and you should try to respect the fact that some people actually care enough about the team as a whole to NOT jump on their huntress / app / whatever. People boosting other people's damage is a good thing, and you should be happy someone takes the effort to do so, because it helps. Provided this isn't 4 man, stop making ridiculous comments like "your score is so low bla bla you don't do anything". [/quote]

This is one of the main reasons people fail the UMF. SYNERGY WHATS THAT LOL I HAS DPSSSSSSSSSSS
People really obsess over DPS way too much.


I personally prefer multiple bases simply because it's cooler that way, and gets less stupid straggling mobs.

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I Monked this challenge up :)

Nothing beats a good Hero Boost and a few friends!

I have seen a few folks pull of a central base for camping. I prefer to come back to my multiple bases if my health/mana are getting low. I try to set up 'bases' next to fool proof escape routes, that way I can stay on the move. Basically run a circuit.


LOL! I tried that before as well, problem was people were dying left and right during the migration phase XD.

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if the score difference is 12k to 8k, then yes, points don't mean anything. however, when you're seeing 15k at #1 and the next person behind them at 4k, something is wrong. don't write off score being useless...

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