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No - Casual gamers are not screwed.


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The issue is the challanges are not playable single player or with out being level 70.
What? You have to group up in order to complete challenging contect in an online game that allows grouping? Insanity! Everything should be able to be done by yourself within a few hours of finishing downloading the game, that way you can show off all your fancy trophies and move on to the next game.

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This thread is funny.

In a twisted way.

"IF you only play for one hour you don't need superloot"

Oh really? Why is that? Because if we dont have 6-8 hours to farm survival (Ill mention UBF shortly.) we don't need superloot, right?

Yeah. Right. Get off your high horse matey.

People like progression, even casuals, hell, specially casuals. Many have defined the term "Casual" on previous threads and I agree with most, so I won't do it either.

The content got beefed up for people who had super/mega/uber wtv gear, and unless you get carried by friends, you'll not suceed in doing said content.

Now, "Why would you, as a casual, want to even do the hardcore, insane stuff??? Thats BS right there!!!".

Why wouldn't I? Aren't they fun? Didn't I pay for them? It's DLC. The difficulty ( and therefor loot quality, mind you) Should be on par with the original game. If not, trendy should just give you all the max stat uber gear once you BUY a DLC.

Why can't I play what I paid for? It's not an expansion, its DLC. No where was mentioned you need to farm 5 days 24/7 survival mode in order to even have a shot at completion.

Trendy turned this into a Mini.MMO, but they fail too optimize progression. And you know why?

Cause DD was never MEANT to be a MMO. It was meant to be CASUAL, COOP Tower Defense. Not this "X Y Z GEAR neEDED OR FAIL". You were supposed to overcome challenges/maps by strategy and COOP PLAY, even if your gear wasnt that great , you had a chance of victory.

Now the community is so broken into pieces its hard to know what direction is coming for this game.

So don't go all high and mighty on casuals, we made this game into what it is ( was ). We saw it as a quick, extremly fun game to play on our short free time. And we loved it.

Now?. It has become a "Second job or GTFO".


Just so you know, you can still do high end end-game content with minimal gear. One of my DPS heroes is still using 20^ armor and a 37^ weapon from Spooktacular BEFORE superloot was introduced, 250K dps thats enough to kill anything in seconds.

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What? You have to group up in order to complete challenging contect in an online game that allows grouping? Insanity! Everything should be able to be done by yourself within a few hours of finishing downloading the game, that way you can show off all your fancy trophies and move on to the next game.



That's exactly it, and I've said it before.

People just want to "beat the game" and add it to their list of conquered civilizations, then go beat the next Steam game.

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When I used to do Insane Rampart (before 7.10 super and now mega-super-dooper loot), I didn't actually dps the Ogre. I let towers take care of it. This was before the app tower buff so I used a whole row of harpoons on top and two at the bottom... they also worked well for AA purposes (those pesky wyverns). Back then, I think my squire tower attack was like 190 or less. I had a proxy/poison gas/ethereal/proxy/slow aura(for mobs)/strength reducer aura (for the harpoons at the bottom as they doubled as blockades) on the path of the ogre. If needed I would repair the harpoons at the bottom while ogre bashed away. Eventually the harpoons and ethereal/proxy would kill the ogre. This was before the new upgrade ramps for defenses. I was doing this to get Master Strategist award so I could level up faster. No need to dps ogre in ramps.

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What? You have to group up in order to complete challenging contect in an online game that allows grouping? Insanity! Everything should be able to be done by yourself within a few hours of finishing downloading the game, that way you can show off all your fancy trophies and move on to the next game.


Sorry but I don't want to grind the same level’s over and over again for hours to just to gain a few levels knowing that as a solo gamer I will never be able to complete the wizard challenge which says that you should be level 25 yet as a single player at 40 I still can't run between the 6 doors that they come out of too kill the only 2 that can die at a time. Or how about the one that makes you a chicken how do you do this as the only player? This game was meant for hardcore players only and if you can't admit that then you have not taken the first step to recovery.

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No, that just makes you fall under the "casual and bad" category, as mentioned in the OP.


And you saying you are casual gamer with 422 post's in 1 month makes you a TRollly.

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Sorry but I don't want to grind the same level’s over and over again for hours to just to gain a few levels knowing that as a solo gamer I will never be able to complete the wizard challenge which says that you should be level 25 yet as a single player at 40 I still can't run between the 6 doors that they come out of too kill the only 2 that can die at a time. Or how about the one that makes you a chicken how do you do this as the only player? This game was meant for hardcore players only and if you can't admit that then you have not taken the first step to recovery.



You talk to us about admitting this game is for hardcore players only - yet for someone who truly believes that, I find it strange you still sit here playing it as a casual.

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You talk to us about admitting this game is for hardcore players only - yet for someone who truly believes that, I find it strange you still sit here playing it as a casual.


When I got it I planned to play it to death then after beating the game on easy and moving to challanges I realized that it was not posible how can the squire kill all the bombers on the bomber challange by himself? So I went with other guides that said to play on insane early level's over and over again, I did that and the game lost all apeal. Unless I play with wife and or friends I no longer have a disire to play, I do the same thing over and over again at work I don't want to play a game the same way. For Hard core I play LORT war in the north or Elder scrolls. Now as a X-box gamer I can't tell if your DLC added somthing new as we have not had any updates.

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Oh christ.

You cleared it on EASY?

Even HARD is a joke. A pre-Spook Animus can solo it.

EASY?





We're done here.

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[QUOTE]The game needs more "normal" maps that we can play to gradually gear up. A map does not have to have random superloot every 20 runs so we have to farm it to get gear for the next, it just has to drop consistent gear for THAT level, not 1/1 trash or stuff with negative stats, negative bullet speeds, or guns that have 1 damage, cause my calculator tell me that with even 60 upgrades maxed out, it wont match the output of a Blasticus.


Casuals want more stuff that can be done in logical sessions. We don't care if we have to do all the maps again IN ORDER WITH NO SKIPPING on more difficulty levels to finally obtain Superloot as long as Easy, Medium, Hard, Hard+2, Hard+4, Insane, Insane+2, Insane+4, Insane+8 have a logically designed, linear difficulty with appropiate rewards.
[/QUOTE]

It's all about this. There's no smooth progression to the top. It's relatively easy all the way up for the experienced gamer and then you hit a wall which you can't get over with the time you have. If Insane Deeper Well dropped better gear than Hard Summit, which is only logical imo, and was indeed harder than it is now, by the time we got to Insane Summit we'd be ready for the UMF difficulty maps both in gear and "skills" without having to invest dozens of hours in boring Survival mode. We could do it because we WANTED to. Progression is so fubar atm and that is THE biggest reason why the casual base is so frustrated atm.

And ShadyC, grow up, go outside. You're not casual, sorry.

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It's all about this. There's no smooth progression to the top. It's relatively easy all the way up for the experienced gamer and then you hit a wall which you can't get over with the time you have. If Insane Deeper Well dropped better gear than Hard Summit, which is only logical imo, and was indeed harder than it is now, by the time we got to Insane Summit we'd be ready for the UMF difficulty maps both in gear and "skills" without having to invest dozens of hours in boring Survival mode. We could do it because we WANTED to. Progression is so fubar atm and that is THE biggest reason why the casual base is so frustrated atm.

And ShadyC, grow up, go outside. You're not casual, sorry.


Just do Hard Ramparts for loot. It drops Godly in wave 7 and 8.

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I'll try to explain "casual" from another point of view.
I can play DD all the way on Hard, then play all the way through on Insane, but nothing drops in the lower level of Insane maps that helps deal with 800K health ogres on say Ramparts, nothing even drops IN Ramparts to deal with that. My group can mow through the trash mobs like butter, but we cant easily focus down a single target like that after all the buffs it received. Yes, we can do it, but on Hard it takes 2 seconds, on Insane it takes so long and they move so much faster, they are almost beating on the crystal when they drop, and when it's over, nothing drops on Ramparts anyway that's helpful on later maps with even more insane health ogres.

I started this game few days ago and I was soloing insane ramparts with like level 55 or so tower app (I don't remember the exact level, I did insane deeper well until 41 or so, then hard ramparts until I got a hang how it works and then switched to insane). Without monk. Usually I managed to get master builder from 3rd wave onwards, master strategist and the standard stuff (no damage recieved after first wave etc). I sometimes failed to get master builder from last wave, but that was due to blockades falling on those two other points. And sometimes some lone wyvern managed to get past my defenses and get a single hit in -> no flawless victory. For last few rounds before hitting 70, I didn't even need to do anything else but go around grabbing loot after maxing my DUs.

For that ogre point, I had lightning and fireball tower near that single crystal (so they could shoot down, not a lot of mobs made it past that). And at choke point, I had lightning, 2 or 3 fireballs and one deadly striker (tho later I noticed just additional fireball tower might be better idea as I think the dps is actually better).

After 70, I did hard glitterheim on my second try. Insane glitterheim is still too hard tho, mainly because I don't have enough time to setup my defenses.

So yeah, ramparts are actually very easy for tower app at least. Some levels are easier for some builds than others (like my tower app has no chance whatsoever at that insane deeper well challenge)

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It's hard to explain.

It's not that a map is either hard or easy. It's the fact that the gameplay is inconsistent. Let me try to give example.

Do you remember the first time you did Deeper Well on Easy? Your weapon was barely able to take down the small stuff, without shooting it 20 times. Everything felt like "Ogres" because your DPS was so low, so even a small amount of mobs was enough to bash on your defenses for a long time, take them down, and walk to the crystal, unless you layered a LOT of them to back each other up, while people focus fired a lot.

Now, you lay down massive damage traps, backed by massive health barricades, boosted by 400 stats with Guardians buffing it, and all everyone does is move around doing loop repairs, that's it. No more combat, no more frantic play, just make sure all the traps stay healty, kill odd ninja, rinse and repeat, and the better the loot you get, the easier the loop becomes.

DD would play better to me, if it played somewhere in between those two.

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The first post had no useful information what so ever except "This is what I think you should think that way too". Really should have explained things better. Man, no wonder this thread is all over the place. :) You Siths are so evil.

I play a lot. A LOT. Way too much. Iv played all levels countless times with mixed strategy and classes. But, I have no super gear. None. And if you don't play for more then 4 hours on Survival I doubt you will ever see it. Even then you may not see any.

Best advice: Wait for more content. Right now the game is not designed to give casuals super gear.

Best gear for casuals: Glitter insane for armour. Halloween reward for weapon.

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Quick question, I'm trying to figure out the whole "posts = casual or not argument."
ShadyC has 247 hours played with 426 posts, which apparently makes him a hardcore player.
I have 316 hours played, can solo Uber MF Insane; but I have less than 10 posts.
So if I have less posts than almost everyone who has posted in this thread, does that make me the most casual?

Sorry, I'm just trying to figure out the logic behind this argument but I keep blanking on how posts = skill.
Can anyone help a poor casual like myself? \(_o)/

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i spend more time playing/working then on the forums, but since the game is down i am on the forums.

i probably categorize myself as a hardcore player, but i dislike solo and survival on weekdays XD

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It's all about this. There's no smooth progression to the top. It's relatively easy all the way up for the experienced gamer and then you hit a wall which you can't get over with the time you have. If Insane Deeper Well dropped better gear than Hard Summit, which is only logical imo, and was indeed harder than it is now, by the time we got to Insane Summit we'd be ready for the UMF difficulty maps both in gear and "skills" without having to invest dozens of hours in boring Survival mode. We could do it because we WANTED to. Progression is so fubar atm and that is THE biggest reason why the casual base is so frustrated atm.

And ShadyC, grow up, go outside. You're not casual, sorry.


I agree....

and to Deeps I only have 50 since April, post count comment was about being a trolly not a hardcore/casual gamer.

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And ShadyC, grow up, go outside. You're not casual, sorry.



I have a full time job, I hang out with friends, and I play other games (such as having over three thousand games played on League of Legends).

Allow me to reiterate my point:

I am a casual DD player. I am sorry you are also casual and cannot do what I can do. But I am not the best, nor am I the most casual. There are many people even more casual than I am that are also even better than I am.





But I like how you told me to grow up, and then told me to go outside, all in the same sentence.

Stay classy.


Really should have explained things better. Man, no wonder this thread is all over the place. :) You Siths are so evil.



Yeah, I didn't make this thread intending to define my point in the OP... Reason being, I've already done this a thousand times and it does nothing, so the point in THIS thread is to at least try to get a message going to help thin out the bad threads. This thread was actually made to HELP the very position I oppose. I'm telling people that don't know how to argue, or what they're even arguing about, that they should let people who are actually smart and knowledgeable do the debating for them.

But alas - they take this as an opportunity to jump in and debate with arguments that contradict themselves half the time, or are logically flawed the other half.

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I'll try to explain "casual" from another point of view.

When I ran a local computer store a while back, we had game sessions every weekend (LAN's basically) and we had a bunch of coop games with multiplayer storylines (Borderlands, Vegas , Diablo 2 mods, GRAW etc etc).

Casual play means you play through the game normally, and even though you might beat your head against an area a few time (basically stall on a map or encounter) what you get when you get past that in say rewards, is a logical progression of gear to help with the next parts of the game. Diablo did it, Borderlands did it.

Casual does not mean we don't play often or we don't play well, casual meant that we didn't have to form a farming party to do an area over and over and over in order to make "perfect" the level of gear that dropped there in order to manage the next area.

I can play DD all the way on Hard, then play all the way through on Insane, but nothing drops in the lower level of Insane maps that helps deal with 800K health ogres on say Ramparts, nothing even drops IN Ramparts to deal with that. My group can mow through the trash mobs like butter, but we cant easily focus down a single target like that after all the buffs it received. Yes, we can do it, but on Hard it takes 2 seconds, on Insane it takes so long and they move so much faster, they are almost beating on the crystal when they drop, and when it's over, nothing drops on Ramparts anyway that's helpful on later maps with even more insane health ogres.

I have a middle range weapon drop from Wave 24 on Insane Surv Alch Lab, maxed out at 3.5K, with Hero Dam over 250, and PS over 150, and It's still a chore to solo Ramparts Insane. So I think it should be easier? No, that's not my point. My point is that Hard Ramparts is now a joke. My pet can Solo it without me shooting anything, as long a I trap as normal. My point is there is no linear game progression since changes were made, in order to slow down the "hardcore crowd", which really, did not do so anyway. It's like this game has only Easy and Insane now, and Insane needs gear that you never see drop on Easy.

The game needs more "normal" maps that we can play to gradually gear up. A map does not have to have random superloot every 20 runs so we have to farm it to get gear for the next, it just has to drop consistent gear for THAT level, not 1/1 trash or stuff with negative stats, negative bullet speeds, or guns that have 1 damage, cause my calculator tell me that with even 60 upgrades maxed out, it wont match the output of a Blasticus.

TL;DR

Casuals want more stuff that can be done in logical sessions. We don't care if we have to do all the maps again IN ORDER WITH NO SKIPPING on more difficulty levels to finally obtain Superloot as long as Easy, Medium, Hard, Hard+2, Hard+4, Insane, Insane+2, Insane+4, Insane+8 have a logically designed, linear difficulty with appropiate rewards.

If a map is easy, we will do it really fast. If it's hard, we will have to do it over and over a few times. Rinse and Repeat.

I'm just waiting for more maps.


well said. also if you put the mp logic from any rpg type game, you do recieve some reward at the end of each "level" so that you are betters suited for said next level. which is the problem with the game, its still being geared towards those that can run through insane surv, insane surv mix mode, so on and so on without a problem, yet those of us that cannot, myself included suffer from it.

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The first post had no useful information what so ever except "This is what I think you should think that way too". Really should have explained things better. Man, no wonder this thread is all over the place. :) You Siths are so evil.

I play a lot. A LOT. Way too much. Iv played all levels countless times with mixed strategy and classes. But, I have no super gear. None. And if you don't play for more then 4 hours on Survival I doubt you will ever see it. Even then you may not see any.

Best advice: Wait for more content. Right now the game is not designed to give casuals super gear.

Best gear for casuals: Glitter insane for armour. Halloween reward for weapon.


Actually, thanks. I know those last two points are "logical", but everyone usually replaces them with "grind survival moar!" all the time.

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It's hard to explain.

It's not that a map is either hard or easy. It's the fact that the gameplay is inconsistent. Let me try to give example.

Do you remember the first time you did Deeper Well on Easy? Your weapon was barely able to take down the small stuff, without shooting it 20 times. Everything felt like "Ogres" because your DPS was so low, so even a small amount of mobs was enough to bash on your defenses for a long time, take them down, and walk to the crystal, unless you layered a LOT of them to back each other up, while people focus fired a lot.

Now, you lay down massive damage traps, backed by massive health barricades, boosted by 400 stats with Guardians buffing it, and all everyone does is move around doing loop repairs, that's it. No more combat, no more frantic play, just make sure all the traps stay healty, kill odd ninja, rinse and repeat, and the better the loot you get, the easier the loop becomes.

DD would play better to me, if it played somewhere in between those two.


I actually agree with this. I fell in love with DD during the 1 to about 55 range. After that you have enough gear that those remaining levels aren't too important. The struggle you had before is much less of a struggle and more of a routine, and in many area's you have to adopt a new routine that isn't remotely close to what you use when you struggled. Because that struggle build just isn't viable end game. At the same time, I still greatly enjoy this game, it just doesn't give the same exact gameplay that it started with.

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Sorry but I don't want to grind the same levels over and over again for hours to just to gain a few levels knowing that as a solo gamer I will never be able to complete the wizard challenge which says that you should be level 25 yet as a single player at 40 I still can't run between the 6 doors that they come out of too kill the only 2 that can die at a time. Or how about the one that makes you a chicken how do you do this as the only player? This game was meant for hardcore players only and if you can't admit that then you have not taken the first step to recovery.


Both of those challenges can be solo'd using a good tower build, trap and aura for wizardry and I used squire towers with hunter dps for chicken, Invis and distance are your friends there, only thing that should get near you are the DE warriors, hawkshot to the face takes care of that.

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well said. also if you put the mp logic from any rpg type game, you do recieve some reward at the end of each "level" so that you are betters suited for said next level. which is the problem with the game, its still being geared towards those that can run through insane surv, insane surv mix mode, so on and so on without a problem, yet those of us that cannot, myself included suffer from it.


I have no issue with me having to take a LONG time to gear up. After all it took a LONG time to do that in Borderlands and we all loved it.

Right now I've done all the normal game content, and I'm staring at only doing survival/hallowen/UMF over and over. Why?

Point is, game is over. I've technically finished, other then topping all archivements. Not only would repetition be boring, it would spoil any new maps that come out if I'm "over geared" already. We should of had a much lower level progression, then level restrictions on items would have actually made sense. After all, how long did it take in linear play to get to 70th on Diablo2?

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Well I do agree, obviously, that the gameplay and excitement is not the same as it is first playing the game.

But I don't think you can blame SUPERLOOT as much as you can simply gain loot in general, and having stats and level-ups.






The game would PROBABLY be overall better if there was NO loot and NO levels - or, maybe I should say instead... no STATS. The pet concept could stay, and every class can keep/gain the variance of different weapon types that Huntresses currently have.

But point being, the existence of stats will ALWAYS cause that "WoW end-game" atmosphere to any game.

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