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Uber Fest -- Is this why you thought it was too easy?


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Jer I hope this thread finds you well. I understand why you "nerfed" the Uber drops, but I believe your approach or conclusions are incorrect.

In short, Uber fest map is sort of broken which allowed for a strange "easy" way to get items YET also it was incredibly hard. Why the disparity? Let me explain.

The chests track the difficulty + wave modifier like most maps. As a side note, did you know Alchemist Lab Mixed mode Survival... the chests do NOT track mixed mode difficulty + wave? They are junk drops even at wave 25.

But, Uber Fest chests DO track difficulty and wave. So, you had people getting "great" loot at relatively low levels on 7.10 or just by popping chests on Uber. That's "too easy". I agree. Too easy.

However, it isn't to say the map is EASY. It isn't. In fact, it is almost a pure DPS fest. I could solo insane glitter normal (yeah yeah not a big challenge but hear me out), but I couldn't beat EASY Uber. Even with the 7.12D, I still couldn't beat EASY Uber.

What needed to be changed was the ramp up of the drops both in the chests and mobs. Make it so the chests do not give good drops until say Wave 10 or 11... whatever. Some limit has to be set. It isn't easy to get through to those waves due to the sheer HP of the ogres.

In fact, I don't die often on that map. I simply CANNOT kill the Ogres in time. Please, try it out yourself and you will see what I mean. I do about 100K Dps as a huntress. I still could NOT beat easy Uber. I'm not THAT horrible of a player either.

So, now you can see with this situation you have it as "too easy" and also "too hard". The answer is the map is broken but it doesn't necessarily mean to remove ALL the loot. If you have some grandiose plan fo the Uber loot, so be it.

You should consider putting some semblance of it back in and rework the map drop mechanics with a steeper reward curve.

I think you believed people were clearing the challenge very easily. Perhaps I'm wrong or right... I would say not too many people could beat the challenge solo. The ramp up of items though, was too shallow and let people get good items far too easily early on But leave the awesome items on wave 14 and such... or nerf that just slightly from what it used to be. I'm pretty sure this is how we got into this state of affairs. Thanks!

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You're wrong.

[quote]. I do about 100K Dps as a huntress.[/quote]

Try 2-3 times that, and yes, it is easy. The people who said it is easy are the very same people that beat it - the easy part isn't the chest.

Yes, many people beat the challenge solo. Once you had the gear from mix survival (or the un-nerfed gear lol) reaching that wasn't all that hard. The challenge itself is easy. The only "hard" part is having spent the time to get the gear. Luckily, that's not possible all that easily anymore :)

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You're wrong.



Try 2-3 times that, and yes, it is easy. The people who said it is easy are the very same people that beat it - the easy part isn't the chest.

Yes, many people beat the challenge solo. Once you had the gear from mix survival (or the un-nerfed gear lol) reaching that wasn't all that hard. The challenge itself is easy. The only "hard" part is having spent the time to get the gear. Luckily, that's not possible all that easily anymore :)


Don't you mean I am right?

[quote]
In fact, I don't die often on that map. I simply CANNOT kill the Ogres in time. Please, try it out yourself and you will see what I mean. I do about 100K Dps as a huntress. I still could NOT beat easy Uber. I'm not THAT horrible of a player either[/quote]

I don't die. It is a pure DPS fest. If you have the DPS, of course it is easy since I don't die. :)

So, it is hard if you don't have the gear, but it is easy if you do. Map is broken was my general point.

The chests didn't help the "flood" either. Why bother running survival if I could run chests in a fraction of the time?

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Don't you mean I am right?



I don't die. It is a pure DPS fest. If you have the DPS, of course it is easy since I don't die. :)

So, it is hard if you don't have the gear, but it is easy if you do. Map is broken was my general point.

The chests didn't help the "flood" either. Why bother running survival if I could run chests in a fraction of the time?


Err... what map/mode doesn't this hold true for?

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Err... what map/mode doesn't this hold true for?


he's saying though that the change made it so you can't gear at a reasonable rate to make it "easier"

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This map is basically: CAN YOU DPS 50 10MILLION HP OGRES BEFORE YOU RUN OUT OF TIME?
It's more of a DPS test, since you basically cannot die if you stand in an app boosted aura stack. Can't get past wave 13, even though my app does 500k dps since there's a huge stack of 10 10 million HP ogres after a while.

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This map is basically: CAN YOU DPS 50 10MILLION HP OGRES BEFORE YOU RUN OUT OF TIME?
It's more of a DPS test, since you basically cannot die if you stand in an app boosted aura stack. Can't get past wave 13, even though my app does 500k dps since there's a huge stack of 10 10 million HP ogres after a while.


That's funny, my app only does 400k DPS and I've managed to get to wave 14 regularly - I just keep getting screwed via wall warriors and enemies being indecisive about which route they wish to take, so they waltz back and forth for far too long. Link related.

http://steamcommunity.com/id/praetor_kamahl/screenshot/596955603798692958?tab=public

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I think you'll find most people were not beating UMF what they were doing is going as far as they could and farming the loot up to there. You didn't have to beat the map to get gear, just like you don't have to make it to wave 25 in survival. I actually could only beat one stage of UMF on medium but I got gear better than I've looted in over 120 hours of gameplay including over 17 hours on insane maps in about 6 minutes in 7.12b. I looted some gear worth 200k from chests on stage 2. Previously the most valuable item I can remember picking up was in the neighborhood of about 50k value. The stuff I found before had *maybe* one or two stats about 14 points or so and this gear had three-quarters of the stats over 20, up to 27 points in any stat.

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he's saying though that the change made it so you can't gear at a reasonable rate to make it "easier"


Thanks! Not only that, a lot of maps can be defeated with extremely efficient use of DU. Sure you can win by being sloppy and having insane gear, but that's not how the great players got there. They did with great use of DU so they could make the most out of crap gear, then they got good gear from that and got sloppier or made even MORE insane combinations to beat more ridiculous challenges (like carrying 3 AFK players on that same map!).

That said, you could argue being a Challenge and not a Campaign map, none of the basic rules apply, but let's see.

Normally a high HP ogre is kitable even if your towers are too weak to down it or you can too weak to kill it outright. I can distract him from taking out the crystal, buy time, etc. I can take out any ogre 1v1 with any moderately fast range hero and MAYBE with melee hero with decent speed. Just takes a bit of micro.

BUT, Uber challenge has some unique differences. There is no crystal, and there is a TIMER.

That means, it doesn't matter if I use all my "skills" to try to distract the ogre. I need to kill the ogre... all of them as soon as humanly possible.

That is also why the map is HORRIBLY broken, even on easy. Why? You got a timer, the ogres only "lost" a few million HP, but the mob composition is identical, and that means 6 ogres with 1MM hp each is still going to cause trouble for the new players... especially when you got crap weapons and only 2 minute to kill them all. Try this on insane, and you are talking about 12 ogres with 8.5MM hp.... joy.

While I am normally a fan of gear progression on the same map. e.g. failing but slowly gaining gear or skills required to beat it eventually, Uber was broken in that it gave out gear that was waay too strong waaay too easily early on. Just change the ramp up... and the problem would have been solved IF this was what they perceived as the problem of "too easy".

Because, a lot of the guys I've talked to and know somewhat personally... and they are pretty friggin hardcore. None of them have said this was "blatantly" easy. Doable yes. A challenge yes.

One 8 man team I heard of beat it with less than 1 minute left on the last wave. 8 really good players... less than one minute left. I'm not doubting there are some other guys who soloed this easily (the difficulty scaling is QUITE unique with more players -- DEWs show up sooner, etc), but I can't imagine them being the mass majority.

Is the map broken and shouldn't allow such insane loot even for those guys? Maybe. But I somehow doubt this was the problem. People were getting waay too good loot (I think you deserve some good stuff if you almost make it, but 2nd wave getting stuff better than survival wave 20 mixed?), waay too soon. The treasure chest example was just to quickly demonstrate one example of that.

I strongly believe Trendy confused the two issues together, and did a mega nerfbat until they could thoroughly understand the situation.

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One of the things that make this map difficult are the buggy pathways. I seem to run out of time every 14th wave due to ogres/orcs getting stuck.

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Hmm I use a fairy, but guess I will try a guardian to see if it works, it means though I would have to reduce the number of auras so that I make sure the str drain & healing aura are both boosted else its curtains.

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This map is suppose to be much harder than MM survival because that's exactly what everyone asked for.

The map is suppose to be shorter and MM survival because that's exactly what everyone asked for.

The loot is suppose to be the same as MM survival because that is what everyone asked for. <- this is the only part they screwed up at first, now it's fixed.

Everyone got exactly what they wanted, a map that is much harder yet shorter than mixmode with rewards on par. Now you have options, it's up to you to decide what you do from there.

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This map is suppose to be much harder than MM survival because that's exactly what everyone asked for.

The map is suppose to be shorter and MM survival because that's exactly what everyone asked for.

The loot is suppose to be the same as MM survival because that is what everyone asked for. <- this is the only part they screwed up at first, now it's fixed.

Everyone got exactly what they wanted, a map that is much harder yet shorter than mixmode with rewards on par. Now you have options, it's up to you to decide what you do from there.


I for one, after playing it a few more times, am fine with loots dropped in UMF. I just hope they fix the bugs in it. And the reward for completing the map should give you a chance to get the uber loot that was previously introduced.

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i think its funny the people that can destroy all the maps/challenges in the game are the people that are crazy geared and armed to the teeth. there is a huge crowd of people that cannot destroy said maps/challenges, myself being one of them. i just got my dps character to where im doing 80k dps with the animus total. thats not that awesome when you're trying to do insane stuff by yourself my tower characters are barely scratching 200 tower atk, and i can last about through wave 13-14 on insane surv before i get rolled. and i've yet to still see any of the so called super-loot in abundance or even moderately. i may see 1 piece if that in those waves. Trendy has said numerous times they didnt want survival to be the basis of the game, yet they keep making it that way. they're also catering to those full geared to the teeth and making it even more hard for those of us that are not. i dunno but things need to change for the less geared, and things need to change for those geared to the teeth. we'll see one day i guess.

Thanks
Jhad

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You really are the worst player ever, huh?



1) Every game with gear involved starts off hard and gets easier as you get better loot. That comment itself, on a measure of uselessness, is beyond the 100% mark.

2) Your DPS sucks. Farm and buy better **** from someone, or do the things you're capable of doing and get maximized loot from there before jumping into territories you don't belong in, expecting to be able to clear them.

3) Yes. You're exactly right. People joined Monster Fest a thousand times to open chests, lose immediately, and restart the mission to reloot chests. The perfect Get Rich Quick plan.




TLDR,
This thread sucks.

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I don't think you need insane gear to beat this challenge on medium, hard, or even insane (for insane you do need pretty good gear, yes, but you do not need the gear that was only available in .12b)

Basically, try tanking the ogres in auras and traps, use a ****ty app guardian to buff auras and traps and learn to aim piercing shot so that it pierces all ogres.

Do that for an hour or so and on insane you might just get an insane reward, even after the nerf (just got a pet with 125 ups and 100 in all tower stats, lol)

----------------
To me it just seems that everyone wants to be able to finish new content the day it's released, on the highest difficulty, oh, and get the best possible loot from it too, on the first run.

I, for one, am a tiny bit sad that I finished the map after trying for 2 days to beat it on insane.

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You really are the worst player ever, huh?



1) Every game with gear involved starts off hard and gets easier as you get better loot. That comment itself, on a measure of uselessness, is beyond the 100% mark.

2) Your DPS sucks. Farm and buy better **** from someone, or do the things you're capable of doing and get maximized loot from there before jumping into territories you don't belong in, expecting to be able to clear them.

3) Yes. You're exactly right. People joined Monster Fest a thousand times to open chests, lose immediately, and restart the mission to reloot chests. The perfect Get Rich Quick plan.




TLDR,
This thread sucks.


And when you don't read... you seem really ignorant and irrelevant. :) Ah well.

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Blah blah blah, insult without showing what I'm even referring to, obnoxious smiley face, last word.

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I don't think you need insane gear to beat this challenge on medium, hard, or even insane (for insane you do need pretty good gear, yes, but you do not need the gear that was only available in .12b)

Basically, try tanking the ogres in auras and traps, use a ****ty app guardian to buff auras and traps and learn to aim piercing shot so that it pierces all ogres.

Do that for an hour or so and on insane you might just get an insane reward, even after the nerf (just got a pet with 125 ups and 100 in all tower stats, lol)

----------------
To me it just seems that everyone wants to be able to finish new content the day it's released, on the highest difficulty, oh, and get the best possible loot from it too, on the first run.

I, for one, am a tiny bit sad that I finished the map after trying for 2 days to beat it on insane.


I do pierce all ogres at once. I corral then to kill about 10 ogres at once. But then they pop out a few 5-6MM ogres with less than 2 minutes to go and from two separate areas so you can't corral them again.

I didn't try using traps, just aura buffs. I was more trained to beating it when it was much harder... with only 20-30 seconds between each waves, so back then traps weren't an option.

With the NEW buffs they added to towers now, it is highly probable I might be able to do it with trap stacking. I was already planning to try this. Nice to know there is re-affirmation on what works.

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You really are the worst player ever, huh?



1) Every game with gear involved starts off hard and gets easier as you get better loot. That comment itself, on a measure of uselessness, is beyond the 100% mark.

2) Your DPS sucks. Farm and buy better **** from someone, or do the things you're capable of doing and get maximized loot from there before jumping into territories you don't belong in, expecting to be able to clear them.

3) Yes. You're exactly right. People joined Monster Fest a thousand times to open chests, lose immediately, and restart the mission to reloot chests. The perfect Get Rich Quick plan.




TLDR,
This thread sucks.


1) Wasn't the point. Re-read the thread about optimal builds with less gear. Read the part where it says

[quote]
Thanks! Not only that, a lot of maps can be defeated with extremely efficient use of DU. Sure you can win by being sloppy and having insane gear, but that's not how the great players got there. They did with great use of DU so they could make the most out of crap gear, then they got good gear from that and got sloppier or made even MORE insane combinations to beat more ridiculous challenges (like carrying 3 AFK players on that same map!).
[/quote]

That was right in the beginning of the response. How was that too long to read when the answer is within the first few lines.

2) My dps is actually 250K with pierce. Sure it sucks. But that wasn't my point and I did NOT have personal issue with it. I'm trying to expain to trendy why it seems "too easy" and rewarding for some, and yet "too difficult" for others. Again, re-read the other response for more detail.

3) Can't tell if it is sarcasm, but someone already on here already agreed and said he did the same thing. We didn't just go in to loot chests. We fought, and if we won, great, if we lost, no big deal. We got some loot on the way. The scaling of the dropped loot for the early waves is broken. Again, all of this is in the thread.

I thought it was too long for you to read, so I didn't want to explain, but guess you wanted one.

To put it succinctly, the map gave out relatively good loot too easily for some. This confused Trendy into thinking it was too easy for everyone, thus the nerfbat. It's not too easy for everyone.

Again, I don't care about myself in this case if I beat it or not. I'm not exactly an ego guy with this name. My point was, even on EASY mode it is too hard for most people because of the sheer HP issue. By the way, when I say most, I don't mean you or me. If it is hard for a lot of people... how is it too easy? I tried to explain the disparity to trend, that was my point.

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Do your best bro, I do about 250k dps on my huntress with pierce, and I can do it too! ;-)

The traps might just work. My builders have some solid gear though, that might make the difference.

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Starts game... "ooh new map"
Starts game on Insane... dies
Go's to forums, "game is broken".

Sorry, just all these threads make me giggle a bit. Im still trying to beat it on Easy. :)

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Do your best bro, I do about 250k dps on my huntress with pierce, and I can do it too! ;-)

The traps might just work. My builders have some solid gear though, that might make the difference.


Yeah, the point of this thread wasn't a QQ at all about the map or even a real request for help.

That said, the new modifications to the map give me a much greater fighting chance. Much larger time between waves. So gosh, seems like I was right... again? The map WAS broken... :) At least it opens up a lot more options.

Do you know for a fact if how fast you kill ogres affects how fast new ogres spawn? Hmmmm.

OoieGooie said
[quote]
Starts game... "ooh new map"
Starts game on Insane... dies
Go's to forums, "game is broken".
Sorry, just all these threads make me giggle a bit. Im still trying to beat it on Easy.
[/quote]

Your response makes me giggle too. :)
Sort of funny since

a) I was one of the first in my group to say DPS was going to be a huge factor when the map was first released. They laughed, now they realized otherwise. That's with the 60 second first wave timer and 20 second for each consecutive wave version. Didn't play that one? Much harder. :)

b) I don't die. Thanks for reading though. I get your point though, but I played it quite a bit before posting. Saw the flaws first day of release, realized trend might nerf. Trend did nerf. Also guessed they would restore. They are pending restore. :)

c) I said the map is broken, not the game. Broken map does not mean QQ. I was FINE with the map in its original incarnation of difficulty. (60 sec first wave, 20 sec for each following wave) But, that's why they modified the loot and the actual map itself at least 3 times already within 48 hours? :) So, again, I was right. It was broken. :)

Don't bother to beat it on easy. I thought I mentioned it here, but if I did not, the rewards are exponentially worse, but the difficulty is only barely easier. Mob composition is the same with a little bit of HP sliced off. Unless they really did change it up.

I only mentioned how easy is hard to beat as an illustration of how lopsided the map was (and since it is a challenge, that is OK, compared to a campaign map which should be balanced).

Heck, in the FIRST version of the Uber map, it said "recommended level 50". I laughed when I couldn't beat it on easy and realized how futile it was.... so just went insane mode instead. :)

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You're wrong.



Try 2-3 times that, and yes, it is easy. The people who said it is easy are the very same people that beat it - the easy part isn't the chest.

Yes, many people beat the challenge solo. Once you had the gear from mix survival (or the un-nerfed gear lol) reaching that wasn't all that hard. The challenge itself is easy. The only "hard" part is having spent the time to get the gear. Luckily, that's not possible all that easily anymore :)


I did all the challegen before introduction of any superloot , your point?

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