Apprentice DPS = Winning :)

If I recall correctly a couple weeks ago I saw messages along the lines of:

Apprentice DPS = Useless, They'll never work, etc, etc.

Yet, all of a sudden I'm seeing a surge of Apprentice DPS players, and I mean a huge surge.
MacPimpin salutes those that have been with the program since the beginning!
And for those that have recently converted to the wise ways of magic, remember to be a solid dude (or Lady)

And now the haters may dismember this post below:

I said it once, and I'll say it again... the only class that comes close to being as useful as an App is a Monk, then maybe Countess they are pretty baller status :D

Macolytes Unite!

yea let's not attribute it to the fact that auto fire was introduced recently.

Psh, Why would a Apprentice be using auto fire? You lose around half of your DPS..

Psh, Why would a Apprentice be using auto fire? You lose around half of your DPS..

Shhhhhhh! Halfout can't give up the trade secrets we'll have to ex-communicate you from the guild! :-P

Is it something along the lines of if you manually push the button it charges a tiny bit increasing DPS?

Psh, Why would a Apprentice be using auto fire? .

Why? it takes 1/1000000th of the effort, and full dps isn't always needed.

Also, talking about yourself in third person is hilarious.

Whats the mid to long range dps look like?
I'm not a fan of people going by point blank dps

I've been DPS Apprentice from the very start :)



But they still aren't as good at score racking as a Huntress. Apprentices are better for completion, Huntresses are better for scoreboards and PvP. Higher movement speed, higher HP scaling, and higher DPS from maximum range is what matters in those.

How does one build an effective dps..er well build?

I thought apprentice dps was always good, i mean issue was mostly with fact that some staffs were underperforming. While goblin overlords charger and few others did good.

Currently with the crazy numbers of charge up make mage dmg totally sick, it scales way above huntress no matter what weapon one has, not to mention its splash dmg better you charge up. ^^

If you want pure hero dps and nothing else, huntress is still the better choice, they can do their damage at any range and piercing shot is a billion times better than mana bomb. Apprentice has the advantage of still doing good damage while also bringing the ability to repair everything in a heartbeat. It's really a personal choice of what you want.

If you want pure hero dps and nothing else, huntress is still the better choice, they can do their damage at any range and piercing shot is a billion times better than mana bomb. Apprentice has the advantage of still doing good damage while also bringing the ability to repair everything in a heartbeat. It's really a personal choice of what you want.

I can agree with everything but the still better choice part :D
The DPS at range is still higher then most huntress DPS's out there when properly geared.

Mana bomb is only non-effective if low in stats or the last two waves of insane survival mix-mode.

For Example my Staff Damage atm, and I don't even have the best:
400k point blank, mid 250's if auto-fired from a distance, lol.

And less you're playing from across the map for some unknown reason, lol. This is never an issue, at least not any map existing to date. While Huntress can get to things a little quicker then most, App can kill things faster, most notably DEWs that get right in your face. So it's a trade off...

That being said, someone once said Huntress required less skill to learn/play in an early post, and I'm going to have to incline to agree, APP heros aren't for everyone.

Effective DPS builds for an APP hero, require good resistances, decent hp (mid 200's in the stat should be adequate) and a staff over 2k in damage w/ points in charge at preference (I wouldn't go past 40 personally) Points in Overcharge & Cast time are highly recommended, as well as making sure speed is at 100.'

The reason behind this , from my guess , that most 'almost completely functional' builds for alch labs insane mix mode happen with an apprentice involved , and thus superloot staffs are gained , and thus the apprentice becomes more of a killing machine (note the almost regarding most builds that DONT finish wave 25)
I still like the monk better , only need to hold 1 key instead of two , and the 39 ups nosferatu I have is ripping some nice 230k dps.

Huntress/Ranger is still better. Faster, more health, longer effective range, higher single target DPS due to insane fire rate on some weapons.

But yes with a good staff an swiff charge shot spam Apprentice puts out impressive damage with splash. And of course they can build a cheap wall in a pinch or repair the hell out of something with Overcharge. So they can definitely be useful in combat phase.

Try 100~ Charge bonus on your staff, its the shiz~ (although not 100% practical :3)

higher single target DPS due to insane fire rate on some weapons.

^incorrect, lol. Even spamming piercing shot ontop of regular fire will only get you close to half of what a good APP hero can do.

More health?
Depends on the build, so this is kinda a mute point. They have higher starting health, sure, but that's easy to overcome.

Longer effective range?
Yes, the piercing shot goes through walls and can clear a lane. I've heard this several times, lol. The damage of a single mage bullet (including the diminishing return from distances) is usually equal (if not higher) then that of a similar built high end hunter's shot. Then someone will say "faster rate of fire" to which I'll say "Not really that much faster."

Yes, piercing shot is better then mana bomb. This much is true on the last few levels of survival mix-mode as noted above, other then that a good mana bomb can usually take out a very large radius. Chances are you'll rarely see a good mana bomb, as well people still don't know how to build APPs.

Yes, piercing shot is better then mana bomb. This much is true on the last few levels of survival mix-mode as noted above, other then that a good mana bomb can usually take out a very large radius. Chances are you'll rarely see a good mana bomb, as well people still don't know how to build APPs.

Problem with mana bomb is if you dont kill the mobs in the radius, your in risk of pushing something to bad spots that might lead crystal dmg. Ofc luckily DEW wont attack crystal, but im personally reluctant to use bomb many times due to the knockback.

Also as you mentioned earlier about generally app preferred stats are first priority while mana bomb comes last, so unless very lucky with gear see no reason relying on it.

Not to make a WoW comparison here...but i would be stoked if the app's mana bomb worked like the mage's arcane explosion

But does anyone else think mana bomb would be 10x more badass if it was instant cast + shorter range + same cost?
More points would obviously up the damage and maybe AoE?

Not to make a WoW comparison here...but i would be stoked if the app's mana bomb worked like the mage's arcane explosion

But does anyone else think mana bomb would be 10x more badass if it was instant cast + shorter range + same cost?
More points would obviously up the damage and maybe AoE?

That's kind of like what he already does if you hold down right click. I like Mana Bomb exactly as it is I think it just needs a major damage buff so that it can do what it was meant to do. Clear out everything in range. Its supposed to be a panic button more or less but Insane mob hp's are out of control and half the time Orks, Warriors an even Mages survive it.

I can't think of any reason to cast mana bomb. Ever. A staff overcharge does much more damage, splashes around, and you can move while you do it. Mana bomb doesn't do very good damage comparatively. Heck, if you have a superloot physical damage staff, chances are your right click attack does more damage. It scales with your weapon damage and hero attack points. I think mana bomb and purity bomb are the only attack-skills in the game that don't. Correct me if I'm wrong.

The only point of doing a mana bomb would be for a wide area attack, but by the time in a survival run where you'd actually need such a thing, the mobs have too many hp for it to be worth it, and chances are the DEWs are attacking in packs, making any attack that prevents you from moving a detrimental one.

I can agree with everything but the still better choice part :D
The DPS at range is still higher then most huntress DPS's out there when properly geared.

Mana bomb is only non-effective if low in stats or the last two waves of insane survival mix-mode.

For Example my Staff Damage atm, and I don't even have the best:
400k point blank, mid 250's if auto-fired from a distance, lol.

And less you're playing from across the map for some unknown reason, lol. This is never an issue, at least not any map existing to date. While Huntress can get to things a little quicker then most, App can kill things faster, most notably DEWs that get right in your face. So it's a trade off...

That being said, someone once said Huntress required less skill to learn/play in an early post, and I'm going to have to incline to agree, APP heros aren't for everyone.

Effective DPS builds for an APP hero, require good resistances, decent hp (mid 200's in the stat should be adequate) and a staff over 2k in damage w/ points in charge at preference (I wouldn't go past 40 personally) Points in Overcharge & Cast time are highly recommended, as well as making sure speed is at 100.'

Can I see your build in game?

This is my current set up, it changes often, Hero Stats are visible in any of the pictures:

Weapon
Squire Guardian
Helm
Chest
Enchanted Backhand
Kicks

Enchanted Backhand makes me think of magic tennis. Or slapping someone really hard. Either way.

I'll be the first to admit, I used to use the huntress to DPS, mainly due to the variety of different weapons they use. But when I got serious about completing insane/MM and laid down traps one time, i didn't have another huntress for dps. Having no other choice, I whipped out my app and let it roll. Picked up a level 64 staff, and things got interesting. Got a level 76, 650k dps staff, and things just got silly. Having to replace a few armor pieces to boost up my hp, but it's got serious potential. Traded heavily for a 5500 dmg bbow two days ago, and still have yet to equip it...

only way mana bomb would be useful is at 400+ points in it, where it should hover in the 50k+ damage zone. that's a huge waste of points that could have been better spent in full resists