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Please consider buffing Ethereal Spike trap.


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0 trap radius points Proxy vs Ethereal Spike





100 points trap radius Proxy vs Ethereal Spike





As you can clearly see, the trap damage range on Ethereal spike did not get any bigger. This causes the proxy trap to be superior in every way in every situation except anti air. And don't get me started on how ethereal spike is the worst anti air in the game.


  • My proxy does 98k aoe damage. My spike trap does 105k single target damage. You might say, well, spike trap is slightly better at killing ogres! But you'd be wrong. The spike trap's reset time is 3.38 seconds, while the proxy trap is at 2.84 seconds. This means, that not only does the proxy trap do more dps, it does it in an AoE. See pictures below.
  • It's elemental. Electric, to be exact. The most common element among elemental towers.
  • It resets slower. This is the same point as the first? No. That was talking about dps. This is talking about practicality. Mob A dies to spike trap followed closely by Mob B. Mob B slips by with milliseconds left because of this. Lame example, I know but still. :)
  • Its damage range doesn't benefit from trap radius. Eventually, my activation radius will be my damage radius.
  • It has less max detonations.
  • Terrible, terrible anti air. You have to back up one of these with a dst(because its electric), and at that point, why not just use the damn dst?
  • It only hits one target.


Guardian Buffed


Not only does it do more dps, it's aoe dps. Proxy win, 100%
Not Guardian Buffed


Does a whopping 11% less single target damage, in exchange for no element, aoe, and more health. Proxy win.

I don't know what should be done, but it definitely needs something.

Thanks for reading.

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Eh. Technically all traps are "buffed" by a 10% damage ramp boost per level this patch (at least until they fix it). Though that doesn't solve the disparity between prox trap and ethereal spike trap admittedly.

A suggestion: greatly reduce trap cooldown, greatly increase trap health, reduce trap damage (maybe make it non-elemental). Make it the ultimate in single target trap DPS (via rapid fire triggers), but drains fast, so you have to be careful to place it only in areas with little traffic

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The ethereal spike trap only hits one monster at a time. I would think that you would want the outer ring smaller so that it hits the one that steps on it not larger so that it hits some other random monster in the vicinity. Unless you are manually detonating the spike trap it seems like it won't hit anything unless the monster is standing in the inner ring anyway and the inner ring appears to be the same size as the detonation mine.

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Ethereal only hits one at a time... Why would you want that increased?


I didn't even know that. But doesn't that just make it EVEN MORE useless than it already is?

It only hits one target. It does less damage. Less detonations, longer reset, smaller area, electric.

What the ****? Its not even situational. You can't even use the damned thing for anti air! One electric wyvern and you lose! It has absolutely no use.

Eh. Technically all traps are "buffed" by a 10% damage ramp boost per level this patch (at least until they fix it). Though that doesn't solve the disparity between prox trap and ethereal spike trap admittedly.

A suggestion: greatly reduce trap cooldown, greatly increase trap health, reduce trap damage (maybe make it non-elemental). Make it the ultimate in single target trap DPS (via rapid fire triggers), but drains fast, so you have to be careful to place it only in areas with little traffic


I like this. Alot.

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The practical use of the ethereal spike trap is mainly for ogres. You can only place one proximity mine in a spot. They can't overlap. This means if you want to do more damage to the ogre you need a different type of trap to be in the same place as the proximity mine. Ethereal spike trap is it. You place it overlapping the proximity mine, just past the proximity mine so all the trash is exploded by the proximity mine and only the ogre will step on the spike trap. Now you run in a circle around the ogre shooting it while it stands on the spot that the proximity mine and ethereal spike trap overlap.

You could also just have some kind of tower or wall in the way that the ogre will stop to hit and place the spike trap and the detonation mine in the spot the ogre will stand. The two traps and the tower may kill the ogre without you even needing to help.

I do agree that the trap is one of the least useful traps for huntresses. Once a hunter has a gun with great dps, there's not mch need for the ethereal spike trap since you will just gun the ogre down quickly and not try to use traps to do the damage since that will be much slower.

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Remove the elemental damage and make it normal damage may help. or make it hit mutiple mobs at the same time.

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I think the Darkness trap needs to be reworked more than the EST. Gassing enemies is still far more effective than temporarily disabling their attacks.

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The darkness trap certainly does need love more than the ethereal spike trap, but darkness is used for preventing ranged enemies from standing in a spot not just disabling their attacks. For instance, there may be a spot that archers or necromancers like to stop and shoot at your defensive wall or bumper and if you place a darkness trap there, they will not see your bumper anymore and keep walking right into it where it can kill them. If you put it in front of a spike barricade the monster will just keep walking towards the spike barricade taking damage repeatedly and that will not happen with a gas trap.

The main reason the darkness trap sucks is because usually anything it will work on would be killed instantly by using a proximity mine instead. Why blind something instead of just killing it outright?

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The darkness trap certainly does need love more than the ethereal spike trap, but darkness is used for preventing ranged enemies from standing in a spot not just disabling their attacks. For instance, there may be a spot that archers or necromancers like to stop and shoot at your defensive wall or bumper and if you place a darkness trap there, they will not see your bumper anymore and keep walking right into it where it can kill them. If you put it in front of a spike barricade the monster will just keep walking towards the spike barricade taking damage repeatedly and that will not happen with a gas trap.

The main reason the darkness trap sucks is because usually anything it will work on would be killed instantly by using a proximity mine instead. Why blind something instead of just killing it outright?


A proximity + gas trap combination is far more effective than it, and costs the same amount of DUs + Mana.

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As you can clearly see, the trap damage range on Ethereal spike did not get any bigger. This causes the proxy trap to be superior in every way in every situation except anti air.

The spike trap has higher single target damage and dps to a proxy, so it's a better trap for ogres and bosses. Both traps have such low DU cost and work so well together that you'd be mad not to use both.

I'd suggest you to buff the spike traps range tremendously, but that would cause problems with traps chaining. Maybe remove the element, bump up the damage a good bit, the range a small bit, reduce the reset rate, and increase the DU. I don't know, really. But it definitely needs something.

I'd love to see spike traps get a little love, but you need to be very careful with them, because they're actually very strong right now, and changes would have a very dramatic influence on the game.

They don't need a damage boost. They do almost the dps of a deathstrike tower for a little over a third of the DU cost (and they don't have the fragility of being a tower). They already do amazing damage to bosses and ogres as long as you've got access to a way to get multiple hits (e.g. kiting, barriers, fixed/predictable bosses etc).

Increasing the blast range would actually massively improve chaining. Right now it's almost impossible to get 2 spike traps to hit the same ogre - if the spike trap had the range of a proxy, you could easily chain 2 by just placing them horizontally across the path, and with a bit of care or creativity you could be hitting an ogre with 3 or more spikes every time they cooled down. This would actually be a pretty awesome change, but I suspect would make them OP.

Stripping their element would be amazing for huntresses, but it would also make available a cheap and reliable anti-assassin tool, which would radically alter the nature of insane maps. Right now, assassins put on a lot of pressure to be creative in your defences that would disappear if you could just throw a spike or two underneath key towers and be confident that that will keep them safe.

Non-elemental spikes would also make trapping wyverns worlds easier. I don't think that's going to be game-breaking, because you can usually just use a magic missile for the same job, but it sure would be nice for huntresses.

They burn out even faster than proxies under continuous use and reset nearly as quickly, so I'm a little confused that you want them to reset faster. What do you want from them that you want them to reset faster? Just more dps, or you want them to be better at killing wyverns? (or orcs?). I could maybe get behind a change where they split their damage into say 2 or 3 smaller spikes (that could still all hit the same target), so they were much better against mid-sized mobs but retained a huntress-ey detonation/cooldown flavour.

I really like that they're very cheap but have flaws - it keeps them distinct from DSTs, which are very expensive but are generally very flexible. Removing their element might make them good enough to need a higher price tag, but I'd prefer to see huntress traps in general remain awkward-but-very-cheap.

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The spike trap has higher single target damage and dps to a proxy, so it's a better trap for ogres and bosses. Both traps have such low DU cost and work so well together that you'd be mad not to use both.
Who really uses traps for them? Usually people just use DPS chars. in any case, they should be holded on traps. Also, there shouldn't be any other creeps there or ethereal 'll attack other.

They don't need a damage boost. They do almost the dps of a deathstrike tower for a little over a third of the DU cost (and they don't have the fragility of being a tower). They already do amazing damage to bosses and ogres as long as you've got access to a way to get multiple hits (e.g. kiting, barriers, fixed/predictable bosses etc).
They have fragility of trap. Striker with its extreme range and wall piercing can be placed far away. And striker is non-attribute and don't need target to stay on small spot.

Stripping their element would be amazing for huntresses, but it would also make available a cheap and reliable anti-assassin tool, which would radically alter the nature of insane maps. Right now, assassins put on a lot of pressure to be creative in your defences that would disappear if you could just throw a spike or two underneath key towers and be confident that that will keep them safe.
The DEW are stupidly overpowered, so it would be great. Also, this 'll cost 3-6 DU for every defence site. Not so cheap.

Non-elemental spikes would also make trapping wyverns worlds easier. I don't think that's going to be game-breaking, because you can usually just use a magic missile for the same job, but it sure would be nice for huntresses.
Wyverns oftenly attacks in hordes. They 'll drain trap quickly. It would be nice as backup, though.

They burn out even faster than proxies under continuous use and reset nearly as quickly, so I'm a little confused that you want them to reset faster. What do you want from them that you want them to reset faster? Just more dps, or you want them to be better at killing wyverns? (or orcs?). I could maybe get behind a change where they split their damage into say 2 or 3 smaller spikes (that could still all hit the same target), so they were much better against mid-sized mobs but retained a huntress-ey detonation/cooldown flavour.
They coud be used as last defence line, which 'll kill all who walks on it, but only while having enough charges.

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I'd love to see spike traps get a little love, but you need to be very careful with them, because they're actually very strong right now, and changes would have a very dramatic influence on the game.


Wrong. You'd have to do something insane like double their damage before I'd think about using them.


I really like that they're very cheap but have flaws - it keeps them distinct from DSTs, which are very expensive but are generally very flexible. Removing their element might make them good enough to need a higher price tag, but I'd prefer to see huntress traps in general remain awkward-but-very-cheap.


The only thing true in that is that they are very cheap.


They don't need a damage boost. They do almost the dps of a deathstrike tower for a little over a third of the DU cost (and they don't have the fragility of being a tower). They already do amazing damage to bosses and ogres as long as you've got access to a way to get multiple hits (e.g. kiting, barriers, fixed/predictable bosses etc).


If spike traps don't need a damage buff, then proxy traps need a damage nerf. Everything you just said applies to the proxy trap 2-fold because it doesn't have a limit to what it can hit(besides air). If you don't understand this already, then your traptress must not be very well geared. It isn't apparent that the scaling damage on spike traps is terrible until you hit 300+. I mean, come on. 98k aoe or 105k single target, with longer reset speed(resulting in actually having lower dps).


Increasing the blast range would actually massively improve chaining. Right now it's almost impossible to get 2 spike traps to hit the same ogre - if the spike trap had the range of a proxy, you could easily chain 2 by just placing them horizontally across the path, and with a bit of care or creativity you could be hitting an ogre with 3 or more spikes every time they cooled down. This would actually be a pretty awesome change, but I suspect would make them OP.


Do you play the same game as me, at all? For one, why would you have any desire to kill an ogre with traps? Weapons do like 150k dps minimum with hero boost/blood rage now. For this reason, I consider chaining a terrible thing. It eats traps up in other areas for no reason. Second, you just described proxy traps, again. + aoe death to anything following the ogre.

Stripping their element would be amazing for huntresses, but it would also make available a cheap and reliable anti-assassin tool, which would radically alter the nature of insane maps. Right now, assassins put on a lot of pressure to be creative in your defences that would disappear if you could just throw a spike or two underneath key towers and be confident that that will keep them safe.


Blockade? Put a proxy trap under it. MM tower? Put a proxy trap in front of/around it/underneath it. Proxy trap is the go to tool for protecting towers/blockades from ninjas at the moment. Anything besides anti air(which they suck at) you bring up, Proxy traps will be better at. Which is the exact point of my post. There isn't any place on any map that I would put a spike trap instead of a proxy trap.


Non-elemental spikes would also make trapping wyverns worlds easier. I don't think that's going to be game-breaking, because you can usually just use a magic missile for the same job, but it sure would be nice for huntresses.


It's just another thing in a long list that makes them worse than proxy traps. Changing this would help, but I'd still never use them over a proxy trap. Not one time.

They burn out even faster than proxies under continuous use and reset nearly as quickly, so I'm a little confused that you want them to reset faster. What do you want from them that you want them to reset faster? Just more dps, or you want them to be better at killing wyverns? (or orcs?). I could maybe get behind a change where they split their damage into say 2 or 3 smaller spikes (that could still all hit the same target), so they were much better against mid-sized mobs but retained a huntress-ey detonation/cooldown flavour.


As it stands, a 5 starred trap has like 50-80 charges. Plenty. However, like I said, I don't know. I'm not a developer, I was just tossing out suggestions as fast as I could come up with them. I do know that spike traps are horrible, though. For you to not see this means your Traptress isn't 70 yet or has bad gear. That is the only way possible you could say this:

The spike trap has higher single target damage and dps to a proxy, so it's a better trap for ogres and bosses.


That is entirely untrue. This might be true at level 40, but once you hit level 70 and start doing survival and get your good gear, etc etc, The damage difference between a proxy and a spike trap is disgustingly small. I updated my original post with more detail so you can see what I mean, if you would be so kind as to reread over it. When I said 7k less damage, I meant 98k vs 105k.

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Do you play the same game as me, at all? For one, why would you have any desire to kill an ogre with traps? Weapons do like 150k dps minimum with hero boost/blood rage now. For this reason, I consider chaining a terrible thing. It eats traps up in other areas for no reason. Second, you just described proxy traps, again. + aoe death to anything following the ogre.


But for why we would want to kill ogre with traps, perfect strategy/mastermind achievement. But yes, the only real reason to use ethereal trap is to stack on top of prox trap for more single target damage

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That is entirely untrue. This might be true at level 40, but once you hit level 70 and start doing survival and get your good gear, etc etc, The damage difference between a proxy and a spike trap is disgustingly small. I updated my original post with more detail so you can see what I mean, if you would be so kind as to reread over it. When I said 7k less damage, I meant 98k vs 105k.

Thanks for the numbers, your stats are significantly better than mine (230 damage, not 300, and even less on other stats), and paint quite a different picture. Looking at those guardian buffed numbers, I completely agree that that's clearly wrong, to the point that it looks like a bug to me - Spike trap scaling should be fixed.

Without the guardian, the ~30k to ~40k is more in line with what I've seen. The cooldown difference is a lot more dramatic on your traps, but the spikes are still doing more damage and more dps (and don't forget the proxy's damage fall-off. The spike will actually hit for that number, but the proxy won't). I don't have any real problem with those numbers, although I would definitely support better damage scaling on the spike.

I stand by the rest of my points, though.

Ogres are a natural focus for spikes. The elemental attribute means you can't trust them to deal with mobs that might be immune and ogres are on the short list of things that you need to worry about after throwing down a rough defence. Most setups just allow for dps heros to handle ogres, but something like solo glitter needs defences that can hold an ogre.

It doesn't matter how much damage your hero does if an ogre or assassin on the opposite side of the map can destroy defences before you arrive (also, there no amount of dps where more isn't better). For a bit of perspective here, your guardian buffed spikes are doing 30k dps right now, so doubling it would get you 60k dps for 3 DU. If you also add enough blast radius to chain 3 spikes, you get more than a hero's worth of dps for 9 DU, which seems a little on the ridiculously cheap side. You'd still be able to combine them with proxies too to throw down ~90k dps on a spot for 6 DU slotted into a standard aura/trap or covering a barricade.

I'd support removing the electric attribute, but I'd still be concerned about the fallout. If assassins need a nerf, it should be through fixing their AI, or failing that reducing their damage or health or speed or immunities. Nerfing assassins by buffing a specific defence is a terrible way to balance, and is almost sure to have unfortunate repercussions later.

I'd also prefer to see huntress traps come down in DU rather than up and keet the reset/charge mechanic, just to keep the flavour. I like that the huntress is different, and I'd be kinda bummed out if the spike trap ended up just being a deathstrike or magic missile with a shorter range.

To wrap up in the right place, though, that scaling with the guardian is just embarassing. Looks like huntresses missed out on some love when everyone else's ramps were getting fixed :(

Btw - It's worth editting your inital post to mention that you're talking about 11% more dps. It's not obvious that's what you mean until you do the maths.

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