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Today's consumers scare the hell out of me. You all should feel bad.


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New maps or old maps repurposed. Whine whine whine about getting free additional content. Take what you want dont take what you don't. You find the DLC useless then don't get it. You find the game crappy and Trendy to be a money grubbing company that looks to release half patches then BUGGER OFF! Support and loyalty are not an response to empathetic concern and like I said you've got a heart of steel to shrug off all of these positive social interactions in the same ways.


LoL.

I should be thankful for a buggy reskin/rehashed map? That should be enough for them to produce low quality DLC at a premium price?

Companies need feedback, especially in the earlier stages of their growth. They need to know what works. Don't be silly.

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If a company dies, all the HUMANS that worked there lose their jobs
What is your point?


So you are saying that I should give them money SIMPLY because they are humans undergoing a hardship or because they need to survive?

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Dude, World of Warcraft came out almost a decade ago (2004), don't talk about it as if it was a recent event. Besides fanboys and trolls both predate WoW by a couple of decades.


No offence, but anti-whiner is probably the most pathetic self applied job I've heard in a long time. Presenting accurate facts is one thing, but anti-whining, geez. It's even a paradox since anti-whining is in itself whining which makes me an a*head explodes*.

Besides most people gave the core game rave reviews, the core game being great does not make the DLC less poor value.


Sorry I didnt mean the game itself recently came out. But it seemed like the general online communities (obviously could just be the ones I had visited) seemed to get worse around the time WoW went from "great game" to "CMOOOON BLIZZ!!!!". There have always been the nerd-rage topics, but personally I noticed it seemed to ramp up BIGTIME a few years back, and become kind of toxic. Then I noticed the same thing in the Minecraft forums.

Like I said, more than willing to admit it is all just sample size :P Just my personal opinion. Alot of forums I used to visit were more helpful. You had the occasional nerd-rage thread, but it never blew out of proportion. And generally it all just stuck to one topic, instead of this weird "Im too important to post in THAT one, so I'm making my own!!!" thing that seems to happen.

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If you lack the decency to feel sympathy towards another human being, then why should I even take your post seriously?


I do feel sympathy towards the human being, but I do find it odd that now Trendy is using the "OMG we're so poor we cant afford our own DLC, feel sorry for us" line.

Honestly if anyone's to blame for them not getting paid I'd say its their bosses. Otherwise ALL those indie companies that could only dream of their sales have gone belly up right? Wait, no they havent.......

That actually lowers my respect for Trendy quite a bit, TRENDY PAY YOUR FRICKIN EMPLOYEES!!! Sure, they didnt make BF3's marketing budget, blah blah blah. They've still made QUITE a bit of money and for a staff of only 17 employees there's no excuse at this point for those employees to be now posting they arent getting paid and living off their savings.

Last time I checked most companies pay their employees for their work. And as much as people want to justify "Trendy didnt make money lawl", the fact is they've had just base GAME sales that most indie developers would KILL for. Yet now suddenly its coming out that their employees arent getting paid and are living off their savings?

Sorry if my first reaction to that honestly isnt "OMG I better pay for the DLC then!!". No my first reaction is honestly "Why the hell isnt Trendy paying their employees, its been at least a month now since launch, there's no excuse for that....".

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I read the first post. Though I haft to say, I don't see terraria or minecraft doing a bad buisness. Nor do I think DD will do bad buisness, just saying. Keep it fair and good, people will love and people will buy. Too bad you based your game on unreal engine, eats alot of income. Should have thought about that when making the game.

Who said anything needs to be rushed?

@Aamelron, no offense, but I felt that your post was abit too carebear. You don't need to talk for the company and things like this will never change in the business world, especially when it comes to games playied over internet. And as you point out that most people on the forum are abit ignorant when it comes to facts, at least that is the tone you set. At the same time, I think you are abit ignorant. The demand for good content and fairness in the products is kinda standard for most people. I certainly not would like to feel that I'm being cheated of my money. This is a business, I for one did not come to hold hands with the company. Life is tough, just haft to deal with it. I think these are the harsh facts we face in the world. Especially in the gaming industry. And you can't compare EA to a indie company. If I'm not satisfied, then I won't probably buy or support the product either. I bought the hero dlc, but not the 4 new maps. And if the business model is this, then I won't pobably continue paying or playing, simple as that. There are plenty of good games out on the market, take terraria and minecraft for an example. And how crazy isn't the business model guild wars 2 will be using? Yes, I know, at least arenanet is not a indie company. At least I would think an indie company would plan their games and have the income in mind too. As said, too bad for using unreal engine and what not.

edit 3: You said "The answer is simple, the customers are no longer loyal to the company." I think you still are in abit of a denial. If customers aren't loyal, who's fault is that? And again, this is a business, keep that in mind. They sell a service, in this case a game. To put it in simple terms, your logic is abit flawed. would you go to a carwash, that after awhile doesn't really wash your car completely? It did that before, but since the carwash company has some problems, it just doesn't wash your car fully anymore, roughly 80%. But since you want to be loyal to the company, you still go there. But really, why go to a carwash, if not to get your car clean? But I guess, everyone has their own personal choice, if you want to pay for bad service, its your dime afterall.



Maybe I am a bit carebear (someone played eve). However, I think there is a solid difference between a company wanting to make money at any cost, and a company that wants to make money by making a good product.

I feel that Trendy highly undervalued their core game at 15 dollars. I will agree that had this been any other company right now I would not have bought the dlc. I agree, the DLC for it's value is not worth it. Then again I think most DLC isn't worth it for any game.

I can only guess, being a small business owner and knowing the hidden cost associated with running one, what the possible motives of Trendy are. It is very likely my projections were much higher then what they really made after all the cuts are considered. I see this first DLC as quick cash injection grab. They probably wanted a slightly bigger safety blanket so they have more time to develop good content without worrying about creditors and ect.

Now, this is all conjecture, and I have zero facts to back it up but my own personal experiences and reading into the details of the their company.

I myself bought the DLC as a sort of investment in the company, so that way I can enjoy more polished products in the future. However, if Trendy continues on the path and this becomes the norm then yes I will take my business elsewhere. I like to give the benefit of the doubt

That being said, yes I agree that Trendy should know that this is not the correct price point for future endeavors. However, I might have been to heavy handed in my defense but only to counter the exterme venom and back lash.


*point about customer loyalty*

I feel your car wash analogy doesn't really describe what I am getting at. I understand the concept of business (Senior in college for Management Science and likely going to get a minor in Actuarial science, part of a profesional business fraternity, and running my own business... not that anyone cares) and how corporations are. I get that it isa concept of trading goods, and maximizing profits.

However I feel that capitalism use to be a tool for bettering society as a whole, and has lately become something else... but this isn't a politics thread.

Anyways, to me customer and corporation/business loyalty is a two way street, and is not only about today's transaction but also down the road.

I believe an example that more closely illustrates my concept of customer loyalty to be is an example of what happened to my favorite locally owned Burrito restaurant. They had foundation issues that cost them a lot of money, and during the middle of them fixing that their Tortilla making machine broke to the point of being unfixable and so for about a month in a half until they were able to acquire the funds/work out the bank loan details to fix it they had to use store-bought tortillas.

Now, where I come from, it might as well be a sin if your tortillas are not fresh. For this business the use of store-bought tortillas dropped the quality of their food down to Freebirds level, yet 10% more expensive than freebirds.

Even still, I continued to support this business out of loyalty, and an expectation of "Well, they are having a rough patch now. However, I enjoy their standard product immensely, so I am willing to suffer inferior quality temporarily for the time in order to once again enjoy their standard product once they get back on their feet."


So, don't get me wrong. It's none of this communism hippie bs about feel good love. It always boils down to "what is in it for me.", it's just that today's consumers are so short sighted that they will cut off their head tomorrow for some cheese today.

I myself have high projections for where Trendy is capable of being, and I'm willing to "help" them get there by supporting their somewhat meh products. As soon as it seems to me that Trendy has lost sight of what I value longterm then I will go on.

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Maybe I am a bit carebear (someone played eve). However, I think there is a solid difference between a company wanting to make money at any cost, and a company that wants to make money by making a good product.

I feel that Trendy highly undervalued their core game at 15 dollars. I will agree that had this been any other company right now I would not have bought the dlc. I agree, the DLC for it's value is not worth it. Then again I think most DLC isn't worth it for any game.

I can only guess, being a small business owner and knowing the hidden cost associated with running one, what the possible motives of Trendy are. It is very likely my projections were much higher then what they really made after all the cuts are considered. I see this first DLC as quick cash injection grab. They probably wanted a slightly bigger safety blanket so they have more time to develop good content without worrying about creditors and ect.

Now, this is all conjecture, and I have zero facts to back it up but my own personal experiences and reading into the details of the their company.

I myself bought the DLC as a sort of investment in the company, so that way I can enjoy more polished products in the future. However, if Trendy continues on the path and this becomes the norm then yes I will take my business elsewhere. I like to give the benefit of the doubt

That being said, yes I agree that Trendy should know that this is not the correct price point for future endeavors. However, I might have been to heavy handed in my defense but only to counter the exterme venom and back lash.


*point about customer loyalty*

I feel your car wash analogy doesn't really describe what I am getting at. I understand the concept of business (Senior in college for Management Science and likely going to get a minor in Actuarial science, part of a profesional business fraternity, and running my own business... not that anyone cares) and how corporations are. I get that it isa concept of trading goods, and maximizing profits.

However I feel that capitalism use to be a tool for bettering society as a whole, and has lately become something else... but this isn't a politics thread.

Anyways, to me customer and corporation/business loyalty is a two way street, and is not only about today's transaction but also down the road.

I believe an example that more closely illustrates my concept of customer loyalty to be is an example of what happened to my favorite locally owned Burrito restaurant. They had foundation issues that cost them a lot of money, and during the middle of them fixing that their Tortilla making machine broke to the point of being unfixable and so for about a month in a half until they were able to acquire the funds/work out the bank loan details to fix it they had to use store-bought tortillas.

Now, where I come from, it might as well be a sin if your tortillas are not fresh. For this business the use of store-bought tortillas dropped the quality of their food down to Freebirds level, yet 10% more expensive than freebirds.

Even still, I continued to support this business out of loyalty, and an expectation of "Well, they are having a rough patch now. However, I enjoy their standard product immensely, so I am willing to suffer inferior quality temporarily for the time in order to once again enjoy their standard product once they get back on their feet."


So, don't get me wrong. It's none of this communism hippie bs about feel good love. It always boils down to "what is in it for me.", it's just that today's consumers are so short sighted that they will cut off their head tomorrow for some cheese today.

I myself have high projections for where Trendy is capable of being, and I'm willing to "help" them get there by supporting their somewhat meh products. As soon as it seems to me that Trendy has lost sight of what I value longterm then I will go on.


Great post. Perhaps I'm just a bit more cynical than you :P I've had too many HORRIBLE games burn me, to where I feel less likely to give ANY developer the "benefit of the doubt". I've seen it happen tooooo many times where people go "yeah well the REST of the games great, they arent going to keeeeeeep going in that direction..." and then next thing you know the game isnt even fun anymore.

For the record, I bought the DLC. I didnt do it because I wanted to "pay trendy's employees" or because I felt like I "owed" trendy. I did it because I had already made up plans to use the new characters and didnt feel like trashing them because Trendy made a decision I disagreed with. Am I happy? Honestly not really, after seeing the models (REALLY the art on most of them is not good....the female monk looks like a transvestite and dont get me started on the adept...).

And this whole "OMG the game is only 15 dollars!!!! Its worth sooooo much more!!" is ridiculous. I paid 5 bucks for Fallout New Vegas yesterday. That game easily is "worth" more than 5 bucks. So does that mean now I HAVE to buy alllllll the DLC so Bethesda will "shut up and take my money!!!".

Or using the logic in this forum, I should now be able to expect DD to be three times better than Fallout New Vegas right? I mean it was three times more expensive :P

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wow...cant tell you how refreshing it feels to see three or four well-worded and thought-out posts in a row without any raging "white knights" ruin the whole thing in seconds...must be the tl:dr effect :)

thanks for that

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Great post. Perhaps I'm just a bit more cynical than you :P I've had too many HORRIBLE games burn me, to where I feel less likely to give ANY developer the "benefit of the doubt". I've seen it happen tooooo many times where people go "yeah well the REST of the games great, they arent going to keeeeeeep going in that direction..." and then next thing you know the game isnt even fun anymore.

For the record, I bought the DLC. I didnt do it because I wanted to "pay trendy's employees" or because I felt like I "owed" trendy. I did it because I had already made up plans to use the new characters and didnt feel like trashing them because Trendy made a decision I disagreed with. Am I happy? Honestly not really, after seeing the models (REALLY the art on most of them is not good....the female monk looks like a transvestite and dont get me started on the adept...).

And this whole "OMG the game is only 15 dollars!!!! Its worth sooooo much more!!" is ridiculous. I paid 5 bucks for Fallout New Vegas yesterday. That game easily is "worth" more than 5 bucks. So does that mean now I HAVE to buy alllllll the DLC so Bethesda will "shut up and take my money!!!".

Or using the logic in this forum, I should now be able to expect DD to be three times better than Fallout New Vegas right? I mean it was three times more expensive :P


Heh, bought 10 copies of FNV for a bunch of gaming friends for christmas. That being said, FNV has already generated a lot of revenue from when it was 60,40,20 ect. That is an unfair comparison.


I do not feel that I owe Trendy anything, other than acknowledgement and respect for a product I enjoy. However, I am taking a (what I feel like is safe) gamble on Trendy making even GREATER games/content if they are given the opportunity. In order to do that, they need capital.

This game has been a hit, but I don't think people realize how little money vs work they probably have made. They are probably just now leaving "survival" mode which is a constant struggle to stay 1 step ahead of the crushing burdens/debts/obligations/reality of life. They are probably at the point where they can see "the light at the end of the tunnel". They honestly probably needed a cash injection in order to finally have some sort of safety net where they can start paying their employees for future work, vs owing them.

Now, don't get me wrong. This isn't boo hoo, poor them ect ect. This is "DD is a game they made when they were under stress and the gun with limited man hours ect ect, now imagine what type of game they could make if they didn't have to worry if they were going to go into bankruptcy"

I've pegged this game at roughly $30 dollars worth of my price point dollars. I'm willing to invest up to that point to see what they are capable of doing down the line.

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Monday Night Combat, Uber Entertainment has 16 staff maybe 15 during development and launching they didn't need to sell gimpy character packs and reskined maps with a flying crystal to buy food for the week.

Just saying if your using the staff number card.

Also If possible remove the new Warping Core crap from my mission select If I haven't bought It, It's an eyesore, that's my only real gripe or at least throw In a filter.

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Heh, bought 10 copies of FNV for a bunch of gaming friends for christmas. That being said, FNV has already generated a lot of revenue from when it was 60,40,20 ect. That is an unfair comparison.


I do not feel that I owe Trendy anything, other than acknowledgement and respect for a product I enjoy. However, I am taking a (what I feel like is safe) gamble on Trendy making even GREATER games/content if they are given the opportunity. In order to do that, they need capital.

This game has been a hit, but I don't think people realize how little money vs work they probably have made. They are probably just now leaving "survival" mode which is a constant struggle to stay 1 step ahead of the crushing burdens/debts/obligations/reality of life. They are probably at the point where they can see "the light at the end of the tunnel". They honestly probably needed a cash injection in order to finally have some sort of safety net where they can start paying their employees for future work, vs owing them.

Now, don't get me wrong. This isn't boo hoo, poor them ect ect. This is "DD is a game they made when they were under stress and the gun with limited man hours ect ect, now imagine what type of game they could make if they didn't have to worry if they were going to go into bankruptcy"

I've pegged this game at roughly $30 dollars worth of my price point dollars. I'm willing to invest up to that point to see what they are capable of doing down the line.


Oh trust me, you're one of the few who I can clearly see your point. While I dont necessarily share it, it is based in reality. The part that boggles my mind is this sort of blind loyalty thats cropped up. Its a little scary. People wonder why companies take advantage of people and are shady. And you can sort of see it right here, I mean these ARE companies, despite how "friendly" they are, and how nice, their bottom line IS to make money.

Now some people go about it differently, my general rule is that when I see poo I'm going to call it poo. Honestly I dont post much on forums only registered here for support for the tavern crash issue (had it the first couple weeks pretty bad).

And yes, i do slightly agree with you on the investment. While I'm not quite sure the end point is the same (honestly I dont think of a 5 dollar DLC for characters a big investment in the company or anything, more just a little extra revenue). I DO hope they'll see the unrest that this DLC caused and do something to fix it in the future. Do I want free DLC to make up for it? No, of course not. I just would like to see more time and effort put into paid DLC.

Now I wont lie, they had begun to lose me as the constant patching lately already had soured me a bit. It came across to me like they were a company that had no idea what they were doing and instead of sitting down and planning they just said "keep pushing stuff out, that'll keep them happy!!". Maybe its my job, I work payroll, and it doesnt matter how quick you do the work, it matters if you do it right, or you just screwed up someone's paycheck.

Honestly I LOVE how fast Trendy is, how responsive they are to the community. It's refreshing to see a development team so active in the community. But that also doesnt make me ignore it when I see something that I feel is a mistake. And at the end of the day they are still a company, so while yes, I DO feel sorry if the employees really havent gotten paid yet, and are living off their savings at the moment, but as harsh as it sounds, I bought a game to enjoy, I didnt volunteer at a soup kitchen.

Will I continue to support Trendy? Honestly, I'm on the line at the moment. I wish them the best, but if things KEEP going in the direction they've been going lately, I think I'll have to move on and maybe come back to the game after I've cleared out some of my other backlog to see if its still enjoyable to me.

Do I expect you personally to care, or other posters to care I might quit the game? Dear god no, I know you probably could care less. But I do feel like Trendy should know why some of their players are leaving their game.

Lol and yes, the FNV comparison is unfair, but its about as logically correct as many of the ones I've seen in these whining and anti-whining threads that keep popping up.

And btw, Trendy if you're still reading, I am sorry for the harshness of some of my posts, but I DO love the game you guys put out. And I really hope you guys "make it" so to say. There is a TON of potential and I think you guys could make GREAT games in the future. But PLEASE, try to iron out some of the mistakes you guys keep making. From a PR standpoint and gameplay standpoint, I love you guys to death but it almost feels like at times you're killing your own game because you love it tooooo much.

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Daztora, interesting information. Thanks!

I'm not going to lie, I did not look to heavily into it as it is late. However, one difference might have been that allowed them to do that.

They appear to be comprised of much more experienced coders and developers, for what articles I glimpsed they used a very efficient way of designing (white-boxing) and time management with it.

They are also older, aka more likely to have a bit stashed a way.


Also, it was first released for xbox live and did ~225k copies.

Then waited two months and released for steam with ??? sales.

Meaning they just waited and released it for another console, and probably had a lot more sales then DD has had so far. I understand that the same amount of time has not passed yet.



Like I said, I know this is riddled with holes and jumping to conclusions. It is late, and was merely trying to show what paths might have caused the differences.

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Nah for what they did DD Is fine but using workforce as an excuse Isn't going to cut It, they knew this going In. You do have a small point about Uber, as some of them worked on other stuff before but the game still retailed on XBOX Marketplace for way less then DD, Didn't do too great on PC In my opinion and I much prefer DD to MNC. But I don't have a valid standpoint on this I just piped In for the workforce card.

Daz,

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I'm going to concede that point partially until I have further time to research the situation, which honestly I'm probably not going to have time after I address all my other priorities.

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I was satisfied with the state of this game the day i bought it, I loved it and had fun. I can no longer say that BECAUSE of all of the changes.


Great, You got 10 or 20 hours of play time out of the game, time to move on -- hell of a deal. I recommend asking for a feature (in the suggestions thread, of course) so that you can roll back the game to previous patches on Open so you can enjoy the game as you used to.

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Oh trust me, you're one of the few who I can clearly see your point. While I dont necessarily share it, it is based in reality. The part that boggles my mind is this sort of blind loyalty thats cropped up. Its a little scary. People wonder why companies take advantage of people and are shady. And you can sort of see it right here, I mean these ARE companies, despite how "friendly" they are, and how nice, their bottom line IS to make money.


This is a whole conversation onto itself that would diverge from the original intent of this message, if you'd like to talk about that or anything feel free to add me on steam, name is Aamelron on there.



And yes, i do slightly agree with you on the investment. While I'm not quite sure the end point is the same (honestly I dont think of a 5 dollar DLC for characters a big investment in the company or anything, more just a little extra revenue). I DO hope they'll see the unrest that this DLC caused and do something to fix it in the future. Do I want free DLC to make up for it? No, of course not. I just would like to see more time and effort put into paid DLC.


Couple points here, I really do think that the small amount is significant for them. Lets say just 5% of the 250k population bought the dlc and trendy makes a dollar per dlc after all expenses. I really hope this is lowballing it, for their sakes. That is $12.5k, which breaks down to $735 per employee. At this point, while not a lot it will allow them a much welcome reprieve.

Do I feel they need to apologize? Yes, but not because I think so for some moral reason. Just purely business relations. Looking at other DLC on the market place, their prices seem slightly off, but not "OMG THIS IS AN OUTRAGE" level.




Now I wont lie, they had begun to lose me as the constant patching lately already had soured me a bit. It came across to me like they were a company that had no idea what they were doing and instead of sitting down and planning they just said "keep pushing stuff out, that'll keep them happy!!". Maybe its my job, I work payroll, and it doesnt matter how quick you do the work, it matters if you do it right, or you just screwed up someone's paycheck.

\ I love you guys to death but it almost feels like at times you're killing your own game because you love it tooooo much.


One thing I've learned from working in life is, you can almost train anyone for any position. You can't train work ethic or morals. A lot of these guys are freshish college graduate, and gators at that.

Your comment of the "love it tooo much" reminded me of an apt analogy.

It's like that college kid who went in for a one night stand and ended up getting the girl pregnant. Despite him not fully being ready to take on responsibility, he is still going to do his best to be the best father he is capable of. I feel it applies to the current situation

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Don't bother, In my eyes from personal experience with both games,

Trendy > Uber.


fair enough, I bought MNC, played it for about six hours and got bored. However, I thought that just might of been a "different strokes for different folks" type of situation.

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