I think Trendy has created a good Skinner box with DD.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operant_conditioning_chamber

WoW does it slowly, and long term. Infinity Ward does in big jumps, by just releasing Modern Warfare X with new shiny tech and special effects, while Trendy does it with loot in DD.

I think computer games are slowly replacing drugs in the 21st century. I think dropping Loot in this game is causing large releases in Dopamine in our rat-like brains, and this is why "NEEDZ MOR SHNY LOOTZ" - usually in that exact same spelling and caps - and the less used "we need Chicken normalization !!!" (but yea, seriously, do a search for "Chicken" just in headings, there's like, 3 pages worth in the forums) are so common at the moment.

If you expected people to buy the game, play it for a couple of months, then buy more DLC's at a later stage, and expected a break in between to count the cash, you screwed up royally the moment you put gear in the game with more then 1 upgrade slot, because you created a monster, where people cry out in pain because Mana withdrawal means they cant spend that 150 million Mana TODAY, to go from lev 31 to 32 on their 60 slot Chicken, without running Really Long Game Mode Alpha about 600 times just to get it, when the real intention for loot to exists was just the act of existing.

Like I said in another thread, the Quest for the Holy Grail should stop at the Grail, but people suddenly realize that because there's ONE artifact around, there must be others, and it just escalate to the point where you are crushing entire galactic Superclusters from your Planetary Space Fortress made of collapsed Dark Matter, collecting Lambda-Omega Radiation for your new Superweapon, in order to destroy your alternate self in another dimension, before he does it to you. People that do this would become Gods, and then actually ask "Cool, now what's better then being a God?"

I think we should have a slowdown in the escalation in DD. It's ramping plenty fast already, otherwise in 6 months from now we will have to write down our stats using Knuth's up-arrow notation.

Really sophisticated , true , but sophisticated.

The game is excelling in a marvelous rate!
for the sake of comparing , I might compare the chicken to the 'try it out' item , being the ultimate item reward you get on many games (such as soul calibur , cheats on uncharted , extra drive bar on kingdom hearts 2 , etc) to have fun with the game after you 'finished' with its content.

Being better then god is very much possible , but harder to achieve then it is to understand.

Once I got my chicken , I messed around with the halloween patch , which was really adding more comparable data for my sketches as it made things easier to explore.

Basically , whatever content the player gets currently , will be with him for the rest of the extending adventure trendy has sent us upon.

It has made players who play a lot now , less dependent on the next patches of the gameplay then they would be if they did not play a lot now.

Basically , the early bird catches prey (or whatever this sentence goes like , my native language is not English)

in 6 months we'll come in the game , watch the content and let it play with our minds for a day or two , and then wait for the next awesome patch , which should actually happen sooner as trendy is going at an outstanding patch-rate.

7.01
7.02
7.03
7.04
7.05
7.06
7.06b
7.06c
7.07
.............................I may have written some none-existent patch , but the point is THE GAME IS ONLY OUT FOR A MONTH <-----litterally , and exactly.

this patch rate is amazing , we got a patch every other day of the week (every 2nd day!)

Point is , I take what I take from the game as a very good aspect of keeping it player-worthy.
Their adjustments are to their likings , and probably for the best of their game , as this content is planned to fit the next patche's adventures!

I like the patch rate a lot , and although some might agree that a slowdown is preferable , I say that the speed is exactly fine as it is now.

Completely agree, and kind of already knew this, which is why I spent 150 hours playing in so short a time I guess, but also, WoW has broken me of this forever. More or less. It still creeps up but I'm more able to stop and say, "WAIT A MINUTE!" when the Skinner Box rears it's ugly head and I'm no longer playing anymore for the sake of fun, but for loot. I suppose that's why I've forced myself to burn out (though ironically I'm still posting on the MB, ignore that!).


[QUOTE]Like I said in another thread, the Quest for the Holy Grail should stop at the Grail, but people suddenly realize that because there's ONE artifact around, there must be others, and it just escalate to the point where you are crushing entire galactic Superclusters from your Planetary Space Fortress made of collapsed Dark Matter, collecting Lambda-Omega Radiation for your new Superweapon, in order to destroy your alternate self in another dimension, before he does it to you. People that do this would become Gods, and then actually ask "Cool, now what's better then being a God?"[/QUOTE]

This paragraph is simply brilliant by the way. You should write more.

Completely agree, and kind of already knew this, which is why I spent 150 hours playing in so short a time I guess, but also, WoW has broken me of this forever. More or less. It still creeps up but I'm more able to stop and say, "WAIT A MINUTE!" when the Skinner Box rears it's ugly head and I'm no longer playing anymore for the sake of fun, but for loot. I suppose that's why I've forced myself to burn out (though ironically I'm still posting on the MB, ignore that!).



This paragraph is simply brilliant by the way. You should write more.

Oh yeah , I totally forgot to mention that! +1 to brilliance on that paragraph and the thread in general.

They would've been fine, if the ramp was slight but nope. the new gear is 200% stronger than pre 7.10.. that's what screwed the game.. and now it's too late to turn back..

@Trendy.

I don't mind the ramp. I don't mind what people call "nerfs", I dont mind if this game has "sleepwalking AFK" modes and "Oh my GOD! THERES MORE MOBS THEN ATOMS IN THE KNOWN UNIVERSE!!!" mode, heck, I really don't care if you add Game Modes using a Random Game Mode Creation Toolkit (or its more friendly name RGMCT), using the Platinum Unreal Toolbox Limited, Infinite Monkeys Edition (or PUTLIME, as in, Put more Lime in my Vodka, I need a damn drink)

Point is, if you add more stuff, I'm thinking everyone will find their own corner of the game they find really fun, and will say so in forums, and say "Love this! More! More" instead of the more specific "Mode X sux! Change Spawn Y by x1.05 times and ... err ... normalize my damn Chicken!" (I now almost feel I have to mention Chicken in every post), cause, I mean, seriously, next time I go to KFC, you can bet your *** I'm demanding to know if my Fried Chicken was Normalized.

Completely agree, and kind of already knew this, which is why I spent 150 hours playing in so short a time I guess, but also, WoW has broken me of this forever. More or less. It still creeps up but I'm more able to stop and say, "WAIT A MINUTE!" when the Skinner Box rears it's ugly head and I'm no longer playing anymore for the sake of fun, but for loot. I suppose that's why I've forced myself to burn out (though ironically I'm still posting on the MB, ignore that!).



This paragraph is simply brilliant by the way. You should write more.

For me the game is mostly about the loot considering I have already got my chicken and played over 260 hrs. Atm I'm burnt out and waiting for more content plus the loot patch. I know for me pre 7.10 the game was simple and I was just trying to finish off some grinding to get myself a good set for the next patch(which now is going to have more loot).

Agreed. I bought this game fully aware that skinner's theory was a huge foundation of the game. My friends all bought it, and I can't resist coop with friends so I caved :( Extra Credits is where I learned about the Skinner Box. http://penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/the-skinner-box Real industry experience and tons of research go into the episodes, and it's actually entertaining at the same time, amazing xD.

Not sure if 'marketing' intended it, but they say it right in the description of the game lol "...Dungeon Defenders is designed to be a distinctly addictive, easy-to-play experience for casual and hardcore gamers alike!" Points for honesty I guess.

It's true, borderlands had this same effect on me T_T

The other analogy that applies here, given all the changes with loot, is that of a dealer.

The first taste is free. You like that? If you want more you have to pay.

Watch nightmare mode, which is supposed to lvl the playing field, be a paid DLC.

The other analogy that applies here, given all the changes with loot, is that of a dealer.

The first taste is free. You like that? If you want more you have to pay.

Watch nightmare mode, which is supposed to lvl the playing field, be a paid DLC.

Well, I have to agree it could be marketed like that by Trendy, but I think lots of people are wary now, so they might be more sneaky, and play via other people's rooms, and see if a week down the line the DLC has had any "fixing" done.

One of the things that makes video games very successful in the application of a skinner box application, is the player not knowing about the "box" they are in.

MMO's have been making very successful use of this methodology since EQ, but it became a very clear application with WoW, especially when you start to look at the vast power differentials between end game loot, and the the starting loot of each expansion.

The "box" starts to fail when A) players spend too long in it with no forward movement, and start to question the use of their time. B) the boxs form changes so much that players start to realize they are in one.

I think we are currently seeing a B happen in this game. Where the developers have changed so much in the Matrix that that people who have been putting too much time into this game (myself included) are starting to wonder why they bother playing.

I know I have never put much mana into my armor because the loot changes so fast around here it just seemed like a waste.

wouldnt know the games been the same for me since day 1. xbox here dumbass move on my part i guess. no future purchases from this guy to trendy games.