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Constant indecision, non-retroactive nerfs, and the future of dungeon defenders.


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This is my thread. There are many others like it, but this one is mine

I see the massive amount of people complaining about one thing or another since the release of this game, and for the most part, I agreed with TrendyEnt. I agreed the Van Wolfenstein needed to be nerfed (while begrudgingly, actively playing a huntress most of the time, but for the sake of balance). I agree the sicarius was underpowered. I agree that squire elemental damage was a bit too powerful.

What I don't agree with is the reasons behind these upgrades, and the way they came about which seemed to break something everytime something else was deemed fixed.






Communication with your playerbase[SUP]or lack thereof[/SUP]

We, as a community, have been plagued with abysmal support in my opinion. Initially (it appears to me) that trendy entertainment sought to mend player relations by putting a lot of weight into player input, and rushing patches based on niche opinions.

Obviously, this angered the other side of the coin. And while I can appreciate that it's not only hard to maintain balance (a daunting task) and to please a large crowd of people, I think we can all agree that trendy went about it all wrong.

When the development kit finally came out (the timing I will not comment on, as releasing a bugged tool would have been even more counterproductive) it was released (erroneously, addmited by a staff member on my post) as a DLC. Making it impossible to both uninstall on it's own, and forcing you to download it fully (2gb) before starting the game. While this can be called only a minor nuisance, and not a game breaker, we have to take into consideration the lack of common sense that went into making errors like this come to fruition. If this had been a game that was offered for free, this would be perfectly understandable. But for us (all us paying users) to be paying trendy entertainment for lack of play testing really stings.

We also got the vocal community to acknowledge the van wolfenstein was overpowered, I agree. And even the sicarius was boosted (after a nerf to both), GREAT. It made sense, the halloween insane weapon was finally better than the hard one, SIGN ME UP. However, because trendy gets all their insight from the forum (some on IRC would argue, they pick a random thread and build a patch around it) they only did this for the van wolfenstein. Squires, for example, still have a halloween hard weapon that far surpasses the insane one.

On 7.09 we experienced another BIG oversight. Trendy released patches (last minute I presume, as they were not added to the changelog) to change elemental damage/caps in weapons for squires (as far as I know). In order to avoid public backlash, trendy commited the mistake of making these nerfs non-retroactive (thus making said weapons obtained/upgraded prior to the patch well superior to those attainable as of now)

The latest word is trendy is attempting to equalize things by increasing the possible armor and weapon drops on 7.10, rather than angering many people off by nerfing their superior weapons ( a position I can respect... kind of...) by introducing items that are potentially much better.




Trust and direction of the game


By now, a lot of players are feeling the shockwave of these sudden (and arguably untested (training dummies do NOT count)) and game changing patches well into the next patch. One can only assume this is a continuing trend.

I don't know that dungeon defenders can now be better than what it was at launch, and can honestly say I envy the console players who did not have to watch the progression of patches. See, I paid (for 4 licenses in fact, but that was my decision) to watch the games' playerbase decrease in a week or so.



So, what now?


While I won't join the consortium of drama queens on this forum who are begging for their 15$ back, and while being just as upset as the next guy, I will put things into perspective.

I paid 15$ for a game that brought me (roughly) 200 hours of entertainment, if you don't count the hiccups.


And while I will not be asking for my money back through steam, some will (though steam doesn't USUALLY issue refunds)

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I'm not an expert, but I'm pretty sure after 200 hours of play time they'd never give refunds for good games.


I also said I wouldn't personally be asking for one. But if someone played 3 hours, then they might.

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Every game has it's disadvantage.. Trendy are just juvenile fish in the big sea. Just give them some time.. nobody's perfect and also they're trying their best to improve.

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Every game has it's disadvantage.. Trendy are just juvenile fish in the big sea. Just give them some time.. nobody's perfect and also they're trying their best to improve.


A few years ago, I paid like 5 bucks for minecraft, because the developers admitted the game still needed work.

This game needs much work before it's working as the developers AND community are happy with it, and we're early adopters paying full price.



This thread again ...


I bet this guy didn't even read it.

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I'll tell you what. A few years ago, I paid like 5 bucks for minecraft, because the developers admitted the game still needed work.

This game needs just as much work before it's working as the developers AND community are happy with it, and we're early adopters paying full price.

Was nothing learned from mobile?


I and others would agree this game at $15 is a steal... compared to the $5 you spent on mincraft, you over paid there for a lack of comparable content....!

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I and others would agree this game at $15 is a steal... compared to the $5 you spent on mincraft, you over paid there for a lack of comparable content....!


It seems to me like a very vocal majority are complaining right now. We're just in different groups, you and I.

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It seems to me like a very vocal majority are complaining right now. We're just in different groups, you and I.




I'm not sure the word "majority" means what you think it means. There's 20-30 people complaining out of roughly 1000 people browsing.



This is a list of Steam games... see [[495,hashtags]]? That's several thousand people who aren't complaining, they are playing the game. Again, complainers are not in the majority.

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I'm not sure the word "majority" means what you think it means. There's 20-30 people complaining out of roughly 1000 people browsing.



This is a list of Steam games... see [[495,hashtags]]? That's several thousand people who aren't complaining, they are playing the game. Again, complainers are not in the majority.


Down from 20k less than 2 weeks ago, just FYI

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Down from 20k less than 2 weeks ago, just FYI



I rest my case, thank you super_captain.


Also, I'm not saying everyone's fed up to the point of quitting. I'm saying many have, and many more will if this continues.


I love dungeon defenders, it was an addiction to me. I just can't put up with some things in it any longer.

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Elders scroll... up from 0 less then 2 weeks ago... FYI

;)


Evidencing... what exactly? Yes, some of the users left to play other titles. Let's wait and see if they come back. My suspicion is that they won't.

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Yea lol... $15 is worth 2 hours of gameplay set by other leading developers these days. For an Indie, this game has offered people .10 on the $, at LEAST, per hour, and with DLC events offered pretty frequently. You suggesting people should even consider asking for a refund this far in due to item/class balance is a freakin joke.

Game was good at launch, but not amazing, because of the imbalance. To consistently state otherwise is pure bias and actually shows your subtle ways to whine about the nerfs given to huntress and squire. You had to have had a decent amount of fun playing this game to have played it for 200 hours, so your entire topic is a moot point, since again, its not so cleverly disguised as a critique, but is easily distinguished as a WHINEry.

You say you refuse to play a $15 for a year because you dont want to bare witness to "rookie" mistakes like the above mentioned, yet you took the time to write this topic up. This is about as much an oxymoron as the thread on gamefaqs, titled "sign if youre not buying this" for Diablo 3...

EDIT: And apparently youre STILL coming back to this thread, which proves my point that you really dont know how to follow through on "I quit" thread with any bit of conviction and are just an attention... craver.

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Yea lol... $15 is worth 2 hours of gameplay set by other leading developers these days. For an Indie, this game has offered people .10 on the $, at LEAST, per hour, and with DLC events offered pretty frequently. You suggesting people should even consider asking for a refund this far in due to item/class balance is a freakin joke.

Game was good at launch, but not amazing, because of the imbalance. To consistently state otherwise is pure bias and actually shows your subtle ways to whine about the nerfs given to huntress and squire. You had to have had a decent amount of fun playing this game to have played it for 200 hours, so your entire topic is a moot point, since again, its not so cleverly disguised as a critique, but is easily distinguished as a WHINEry.

You say you refuse to play a $15 for a year because you dont want to bare witness to "rookie" mistakes like the above mentioned, yet you took the time to write this topic up. This is about as much an oxymoron as the thread on gamefaqs, titled "sign if youre not buying this" for Diablo 3...


I honestly wish you read the whole thread before making a post.

I said I got 200~ hours out of it, and if someone played it for 3 hours before realizing what I did, they might qualify for a refund (but steam doesn't really ever give them out anyway)

I also think I'll see you whining when your class of choice gets nerfed, and if you don't, then you're a good man. However, these rash changes do not bring about balancing, they bring about the loss of players that we're seeing.

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Evidencing... what exactly? Yes, some of the users left to play other titles. Let's wait and see if they come back. My suspicion is that they won't.


About aa much as you posted... a fact ;)

Sure the numbers are down but that means little over the length of the game. Elders scroll just released, dundef was doing like 40k then... when people beat elders, some will come back, some will move on. Over all the games doing quite good... look at other games released in the same tine frame and compare ;)

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About aa much as you posted... a fact ;)

Sure the numbers are down but that means little over the length of the game. Elders scroll just released, dundef was doing like 40k then... when people beat elders, some will come back, some will move on. Over all the games doing quite good... look at other games released in the same tine frame and compare ;)


I think any drop in playerbase indicated people aren't content. While skyrim has taken the world by storm, we would be fools to deny that some people are quitting due to trendy's harsh decisions.

I understand it's impossible to please everyone, but if you're aiming at not pissing everyone off, trendy's recent patches are not the way to go.


I play all 4 classes, cause thats what the game is balanced for... K THNX!


Most people do, I hope you weren't expecting to impress anyone.

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I must be too casual a player but I feel like I am playing a different game than most of you complainers. I can't think of a single thing that pissed me off about the game outside of bugs that made the game crash which has happened like 2 or 3 times in 100 hours of my playing it.

I have played both by myself and with the 3 friends I gifted the game to so I have been enjoying both sides of the coin there. I am able to solo all but 4 maps on insane (have not even tried them yet). My gear is average for 70 (2 fully upgraded godly items that could probably be better).

Really what the hell is wrong with most of you people? We should be lucky this game gets patched as often as it does.

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i must be too casual a player but i feel like i am playing a different game than most of you complainers. I can't think of a single thing that pissed me off about the game outside of bugs that made the game crash which has happened like 2 or 3 times in 100 hours of my playing it.

I have played both by myself and with the 3 friends i gifted the game to so i have been enjoying both sides of the coin there. I am able to solo all but 4 maps on insane (have not even tried them yet). My gear is average for 70 (2 fully upgraded godly items that could probably be better).

Really what the hell is wrong with most of you people? We should be lucky this game gets patched as often as it does.


qft!!

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I must be too casual a player but I feel like I am playing a different game than most of you complainers. I can't think of a single thing that pissed me off about the game outside of bugs that made the game crash which has happened like 2 or 3 times in 100 hours of my playing it.

I have played both by myself and with the 3 friends I gifted the game to so I have been enjoying both sides of the coin there. I am able to solo all but 4 maps on insane (have not even tried them yet). My gear is average for 70 (2 fully upgraded godly items that could probably be better).

Really what the hell is wrong with most of you people? We should be lucky this game gets patched as often as it does.


I don't consider myself lucky to get patches on a game I paid for. If someone is unsatisfied with a free game, then they don't get to complain.

Everyone else, can move on if they're not happy with a game, which is what this thread is about. I'm not the only one.

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