Jump to content

Why this game died so quickly.


Recommended Posts

Well as much as I love this game after the third week(the release of skyrim and MW3) I can safely say that this game already reached it's peak. This to me is a shame but there are some very simple reasons why once you reach insane difficulty this game just blows up and you will have no one to play with even if you make a group of friends or clan. The retention rate is just way to high. However oddly enough the majority of the problems stems not from the game designers but instead from outside influences and the way the majority chooses to play this game.

1. Money to mana forums- Now I don't know much about these type of services instead from the old days when buying gold for world of warcraft from chinese gold farmers but it seems that the same problem plagues this game. Mana became way too easy to attain from these services. So instead of simply playing the game people just bought power.

2. Shopping defenders- From the result of buying mana with real money comes the question of what to do with all that mana? Well the community decided to simply set up shops and while I am guilty of setting up a shop and selling my extra or old weapons it came to the point where people stopped playing the game and started simply selling goods. With certain items just being so optimal players didn't even need to actually play the dungeon levels or challenges. They could just power level a character and then buy mana and then buy the items they want. Once you got to that point, there really was no reason to play the game anymore.

3. Only playing the huntress- I can say that I hate huntress players with a passion. I mean specifically the player that only plays the hero huntress and does zero building and expects everyone else on her team to do her job for her. When you get to insane and specifically Glittering Caverns there is no way for one or even two people to build everything and the other two go pure dps. Each person has to be in their own sector and if a structure goes down they need to learn to improvise and build a substitute defense. Even I have a huntress and while it is great that your huntress has +200 hero attack, my huntress has 150 hero attack and turret attack. The difference? I can actually use my huntress traps to build an effective defense along with doing damage. Once people resign themselves to this and have their other three classes as "pure builders" they often ditch the App, monk, and squire because at the end of the day all they really want to do is do damage and not think about building a defense. That as a result kills this game's community cause it forces the two worst extremes. People want to just do damage and be carried by other people building defenses and people who overstressed having to build turret defenses for three people. In either case the result is that no one is able to actually complete any of the dungeons anymore and quit playing this game. Not to mention the instant someone is stuck on one of their "pure builder" characters the match is already over cause now they can't contribute to doing any damage or get insta-killed by dark elf warriors because they didn't invest in hero health or generic damage resistance.

4. Item progression too good- This was something that also made me sad when I realized it. Now I will say that customizing your equipment is great and unique but it was way too easy for players to get the best types of armor in the game and then sell those items. The equipment got so good especially in the Halloween event that it killed all variety. Show me a huntress that actually wants to play end game with a grenade launcher instead of using wolfstein or Sciarus. It was too easy to simply leave your gear alone until godly and then upgrade that gear to encourage those extremes as noted in point #3. Improvements to armor and weapons needs to be a lot more rare and unique because right now most huntress players are only going to be using wolfstein or sciarus from now on because they way they do damage is too efficient that your insane ogres just drop against them without any struggle.

There are probably many more problems that even I'm overlooking but when you are on your third week out and what used to be a full list of players down to 4 games with three of them shops at end game there is a problem. Oh yeah I can't even see a full list even if I include all of hard, medium and easy games and half of them are shops as well.

If I was Trendy I'd keep the development staff to a minimum here for DLC only and start working on a new IP cause the community and the money to mana forum killed this IP right quick.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 114
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Since the Van Wolfstein nerfs, I have fallen in love with the Crystal Tracker. I find the radius to be more useful than pierce, and the DPS isn't low enough that I miss the Wolf on anything but Insane Summit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
This game didn't die. Did you even check the steam logged-in statistics? A lack of games doesn't mean a lack of people. It means that most are full. I didn't read the entire post because I'm tired of seeing 'why the game fails' or 'goodbye everyone I'm done here' threads. MAKE A GAME. Chances are someone will join. And it's still being worked on. We JUST got the modding tools. There's endless possibility for those. Three weeks? That's hardly long enough. At least, not to me. So yeah. Enough of these threads. It's getting on probably everyone's nerves.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
MacPimpin sees where you're coming from...

However number 3, especially in regards to glitter MacPimpin will disagree. Huntresses think they're the only DPS on the block sure... (which obviously isn't the case) But, hell if three huntresses come in when doing this map, and just sit on a crystal MacPimpin is content as a mofo.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
*Looks at Steam stats*

Current: 6,216 Peak today: 8,401

Yeah this game is totally dead. :skeleton:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
*Looks at Steam stats*

Current: 6,216 Peak today: 8,401

Yeah this game is totally dead. :skeleton:


I really wonder what OP is smokin'. Cuz I don't want any of it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Or it is called Modern Warfare 3 and Skyrim? I have never seen so many people playing 1 game on steam before... Upwards of 275k users playing Skyrim at any given time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I don't agree that the game is dead. There are a lot of outside factors that have drawn people away, sure, that's inevitable, but I believe it will retain a solid niche audience for a long time to come. It's a unique concept and people respond well to that.

However, I really like part four of your short essay.

Hopefully they can fix item progression in the next expansion. Not that I only play the game for loot, but the speed at which you gain loot needs to be slowed down considerably. Now playing a game for loot or making the grind longer just for loot is cheap and games are about more than that, yes, but it's also kind of hollow when you get upgrades so quickly and are constantly cycling through them, until a point where you just want that ONE gun. With a game with so much loot, you want the stuff you find to be meaningful.

I've heard that there will be a lot more stuff and a lot different levelling experience in the expansions, so I'm hopeful.

[QUOTE]Or it is called Modern Warfare 3 and Skyrim? I have never seen so many people playing 1 game on steam before... Upwards of 275k users playing Skyrim at any given time. [/QUOTE]

Indeed, Skyrim is hard to resist. I wouldn't doubt most of the Trendy team is playing it! :P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Threads like this just need to be closed from now on imo.


I think he makes some valid points, he can just do without the sky is falling mentality. But that's the internet for you. I'm like that with shows sometimes. If I stop watching, I'll just suddenly assume they've been cancelled after a few weeks. Which is silly of course.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
While the OP is wrong about this game dying (seriously, it's nowhere near dying. I'd say that with the next DLC we might even see a new influx of players.) He does make several valid points.

On 3. Too many players focus on making "pure" DPS and Tower builds, to the exclusion of all else. Completely ignoring the fact that by min-maxing to such an extreme they have made a virtually unplayable character that is only useful with the character-swap crutch. On my own Tower-focused monk I can pull 98k DPS right now with the proper equipment, while still having auras that vaporize 3/4ths of all trash mobs and snares that quadruple the time it takes for mobs to cross a killzone. When I compare the damage of my trap huntress to that of my DPS huntress, the difference is noticeable, but small (roughly +33%, and my trap huntress has far, FAR more useful towers!)

4. I would say that it's not that item progression is too good, but rather that too few weapons have a good item progression. Stock weapons should be able to get an equal number of ^'s that a challenge weapon can, but the challange weapons would have better stats or unique abilities to compensate for this. Like how the Kobold Douser is a flamethrower that deals poison damage.

I do feel that trendy may have realized some of their mistakes with spooktacular, and they seem to be trying to fix them one at a time. Don't lose hope.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote]When you get to insane and specifically Glittering Caverns there is no way for one or even two people to build everything and the other two go pure dps[/quote]

I solo build for my four man group on every current map. It's no biggy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
While the OP is wrong about this game dying (seriously, it's nowhere near dying. I'd say that with the next DLC we might even see a new influx of players.) He does make several valid points.

On 3. Too many players focus on making "pure" DPS and Tower builds, to the exclusion of all else. Completely ignoring the fact that by min-maxing to such an extreme they have made a virtually unplayable character that is only useful with the character-swap crutch. On my own Tower-focused monk I can pull 98k DPS right now with the proper equipment, while still having auras that vaporize 3/4ths of all trash mobs and snares that quadruple the time it takes for mobs to cross a killzone. When I compare the damage of my trap huntress to that of my DPS huntress, the difference is noticeable, but small (roughly +33%, and my trap huntress has far, FAR more useful towers!)


4. I would say that it's not that item progression is too good, but rather that too few weapons have a good item progression. Stock weapons should be able to get an equal number of ^'s that a challenge weapon can, but the challange weapons would have better stats or unique abilities to compensate for this. Like how the Kobold Douser is a flamethrower that deals poison damage.

I do feel that trendy may have realized some of their mistakes with spooktacular, and they seem to be trying to fix them one at a time. Don't lose hope.


What? Tower characters are never suppose to be out, most of the end game players have up to 8 level 70s, 4 specializing in towers, and 4 specializing in hero abilities... These players know the map so well that the minute the map loads they are already building their setup.. They immediately switch to dps or keep building and let other people dps for them... When the setup is complete, everyone switches to a hero build and annihilate everything...

Also nice 99k dps monk you have there... My hero hits almost 150k+ and his tower boost/hero boost makes everything a joke to kill... my aura monks ensnare aura is so huge that it can cover 4 lanes.. and the elec aura does ~870 damage a tick.. I use to play a hybrid monk, the difference between a hybrid and a specialized char is huge..

The trick most people seem to forget is that you can swap char, and that is how the end game is meant to be played..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Op is half right and half dead wrong.

The issue of "pure builders", and the mana issue, are completely correct. Buying mana for money is just bad and hurts the game overall. Equally, at the same time, the boredom of farming enough mana pushes some people to do this. The issue is that mana is easy to get, but somewhat boring. The best way to do it by far is simply doing a wave of halloween insane over and over. Boring.

Pure builder/pure DPS is also silly. My huntress has quite a bit of tower stats, enough to, as the OP points out, hold her own section of the map should it be required. The whole pure DPS focus is both silly and un-needed - such a focus on DPS is simply not needed anywhere in the game, nor does it help. One-hit kill is one-hit kill for normal enemies, and ogres can be killed fast enough either way.



The OP is wrong about the game being dead. People simply don't make many public games. If I make one (to help people with halloween, for example - yes, I can just solo it but I prefer playing with people, and if friends are offline...), it fills within seconds. That's the thing: People just don't want to host games, because the host is expected to do the whole setup and plan, and people don't like to do that. There are still lots of people playing.

[quote]What? Tower characters are never suppose to be out,[/quote]

It is people like you that rob the fun out of the game for some people for no reason whatsoever. Yes, they are supposed to be out. The game is not supposed to be played the way you think: It's an OPTION. Options are not mandatory.

I rather take 30 seconds longer for a map and have everyone have fun than go for un-needed over the top optimizing that nobody really needs nor cares for. DD is not hard enough on insane to require absurd minmaxing on this scale.

I think some people are really overcompensating for their lack of playerskill and planning by this. It's a crutch.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I'd argue that DD isn't hard enough to require any sort of min-maxing. You could probably not spend half of your stat points and still clear maps fairly easily. This whole notion of min-maxing or you're doing it wrong is hilarious. These aren't WoW raids, you're not being challenged to the very core of your gamer soul.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
About #3:
If we take your glitterhelm example, you can have 1 char just go around building on the 1st build phase and the 2nd char, let's say it's a DPS huntress with animus (since that's the most common setup, isn't it?), sit on 1 of the crystals and protect it perfectly for a 1, 2 or 3 waves so the builder can focus on the other parts of the map.

While playing with randoms, there are also those who want to have all the DU for themselfs and build everything, even in glitterhelm and if you happen to build something, it would just get sold/you getting kicked because you have +99 to tower stats instead of their +100 which makes his towers superior and/or some random reason.

As for reason why I play hero huntress in random games? Read above and since it's the fastest class (or did this change?) you can have fast response time if something does go wrong with the defences the randoms had.
And yes, I could and should explain them how to build, but you know kids, most of them generally don't like to take orders and have really short temper, especially on the internet.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Why should I play Tower spec when playing with other people? Nearly every game they sell my stuff and replace it with theirs. I could understand it IF theirs would be better, but usually it isn't.

Apart from this. The most games I see at the moment are shop games. We "play" to farm gear for our shops. When did Dungeon Defenders became Recettear?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Tenmar, Whilst I agree with most of the points you make. The only exception being point 3, which in all honestly wasn't a negative aspect of gameplay, in that many players loved this game because of their Huntress'es and only quit when they were nerfed.

However, from personal experience, having had my entire gaming group Rage Quit on this game only last week, leaving me with nobody on my friends list to play with, the real killer is the constant patching and adjustment of basic gaming elements.

This is essentially a Tower Defence Strategy Game, which means that it attracted a lot of strategy gamers like myself who are into to assessing the game formulating solutions to problems and puzzles within it. So, a lot of effort gets expended on optimising Tower Layouts, Character Builds, Levelling Strategies etc.

The problem is that everytime Trendy release a new patch they seem to manage to pull the rug out from under all the work that their players have done to solve the maps, and when hours of effort have gone into working these things out it's damned annoying. Doubly so when these things coincide with the release of PvP maps that have no relevance to the game genre we thought we were buying.

Thats certainly why my gaming group quit Dungeon Defenders, not the 'Ninja Looters' or 'Chinese Farmers' or even the badly tested weapons. These things are all annoying and need to be resolved, but the biggest game killer were Trendy themselves, who like any bad artist can't stop fiddling with their work, even though it's finished.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Skyrim is singleplayer non-competetive bs and mw3 is just plain boring, aswell as bf3 and yes...i have all 3 and played all the previous versions aswell. DD is amazingly entertaining and unique, will be a long while before it even begins to die, due to the rate of new downloadable content being released which is incredibly fast.

I've seen threads like this on every game i've played since the dawn of online gaming. 90% of the people are busy playing the game and sadly people like the OP can be found on the forum :(

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is essentially a Tower Defence Strategy Game, which means that it attracted a lot of strategy gamers like myself who are into to assessing the game formulating solutions to problems and puzzles within it. So, a lot of effort gets expended on optimising Tower Layouts, Character Builds, Levelling Strategies etc.

Well its not mandatory. And FFS dood, optimizing character builds? Leveling strategies?? In this game??? Have a tissue to wipe that sweat from your brow bro.

As meantioned before this game is hardly a mental challenge. Want a really hard game to play with your buddies that requires insane planning and strategizing? Go play AI War :/

The issue i see here is ppl making this game out to be more than it really is.


The problem is that everytime Trendy release a new patch they seem to manage to pull the rug out from under all the work that their players have done to solve the maps, and when hours of effort have gone into working these things out it's damned annoying. Doubly so when these things coincide with the release of PvP maps that have no relevance to the game genre we thought we were buying.

Adapt and stop QQing. Some ppl like to have some tried and tested cheese strat they can spam over and over. Some of us like that we need to readapt or even scrap old strategies as the metagame evolves...

Also, PvP was always advertised as part of the package iirc.




Replies in Bold.



And another OP being a candy-*** i see. Look, this game is far from dead. Skyrim and MW3 have taken priority for a majority of players.

Secondly, this game has been out for a month. So just chill, and let the devs find their equilibrium...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hating on the huntress for going dps........really man?

Simple fact is that huntress is the best laner. Now squires are blockades and mages dps. I guess aura monks are the same as mages essentially although they fit more a traptress more.

Huntress rely more on weapons than ANY other class, which is why everyone usually goes dps cus they want to play with them. You can win. most rounds with a blockaded crystal, a good dps huntress, and a trap huntress/aura monk/tower app.

hating on the huntress cus its more rpg oriented than Tower Defense, is pathetic sorry.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
In this game, most people play solo because playing with others is cripling. Going from having to fight 1000 things to 5000 things because a couple people joined your game is tedious and overkill. RMT shouldn't have any impact on this game, so using that as an excuse is pretty lame.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...