Jump to content

Why are chests and bosses the only way to get loot?


Recommended Posts

Lets face it end game is all about chests dropping gear and bosses dropping weapons. There seems to be no reason to have regular mobs drop items when they all suck, something needs to get changed... Either mobs need to drop better items or have them drop no gear and just deposit mana into our bank while increasing the number of items for sale in the store from 3 to 6.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Insane Spooky ( 2.075 / 1.75 / 6.0 ) > Hard Spooky ( 2.075 / 1.35 / 6.0 ) >= Insane Glitter ( 2.05 / 1.75 / 3.95 ) > Hard Glitter ( 2.05 / 1.35 / 3.95 ) for Drop Quality.
Chests ( No Rarity Penalty and Bonus Quality Multiplier depending on Map ) always > Mobs ( 0.4 Rarity Penalty Multiplier on Insane / Lower Quality Multiplier depending on Mob ) for Drop Quality too.


First is Map Rarity Bonus / Second is Difficulty Quality Multiplier / Third is Map Rarity Weighting.

There is a Equipment Quality Scale Max Wave thing I don't know what it does, maybe for increasing quality of items dropped on Consecutive Waves ?

It seems Rarity and Quality are different things. I still don't know what each means. But I suspect quality is maximum type of armor it can be like pristine / leather and diminishing returns chance of getting a better armor type on drop. Also Quality could mean how high the stats can go.

While I suspect Rarity indicates how good the item is like maximum ammount of upgrades, base stats and if its godly / amazing / enchanted / blablabla. Since mobs have a 0.4 rarity multiplier penalty on drop on Insane, you almost never get a good armor / item from them they always go like "powerful / shining / polished / lowly amazing" things like that, also they have low base stats / upgrades usually.

About the lower quality multiplier on mob.
For example Goblin could give 0.85 quality multiplier on the final calculation. Dark Mages could give 1.0 quality multiplier. Some might give higher, some lower.

Also Easy Difficulty = 0.0 Rarity Penalty Multiplier on Monster Loot, so it makes Rarity go to 0?

The Bonus Quality Multiplier I mentioned on Chests based on Map is different from the Quality Multiplier from Maps. It is a bonus given to Chests depending on "Area" they have. Probably like Area 1 ( Areas until First Boss ) / Area 2 ( Areas after First Boss and Until Second Boss / Area 3 ( Areas After Second Boss and above ).

Each Area Chest Archetype has a higher final Quality multiplier. Also there is a drop quality threshold and drop quality value on mobs / items that I don't really know what are meant to do, they have values below 1 .

Edit 2 :
Drop Quality Threshold might be Drop Chance.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
This is all theorycrafting based on the values I found :
Spooky Insane :
Chest :
Quality Multiplier = 1.75 ( Difficulty ) * 2.075 ( Map Quality Multiplier ) * 1.4 ( Area 3 Chest Bonus Multiplier ( I am not sure about this because I can't find Archetype Chest Area 3 values, but it is higher than Area 2 which is 1.3 for sure )) = 5.08 Quality Multiplier
Rarity = 6.0 from Map Multiplier * 1.0 ( No Rarity Penalty ) = 6.0 Rarity Multiplier

Mob :
Quality = 1.8 ( Difficulty Multiplier is a little different on Mobs ) * 2.075 ( Map Quality Multiplier ) * 0.85 to 1.0 ( Mob Multiplier depending on type of Mob ) = 3.17 to 3.73 Quality Multiplier on Mobs.
Rarity = 6.0 ( Map Rarity Multiplier ) * 0.4 ( Insane Mob Rarity Penalty ) = 2.4 Rarity Multiplier


So yeah, Spooky Insane will have Chests with 5.08 Quality / 6.0 Rarity Multipliers while having Mobs with 3.1-> 3.7 Quality / 2.4 Rarity Multipliers.

There are other values that I don't know what they do like threshold, global equipment quality, equipment quality scaling max wave.

I found the values on the DDDK ( Dung. Defe. Devel. Kit. )
Also almost every map on Challenge has Map Rarity Multiplier Value of 1. Which explains why items from chests and monsters on most challenges maps are horrible. Also I think they don't have Map Quality Multiplier.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Any idea how the vendor quality on items is determined? I get my best stuff from the vendor after doing hard or insane spook.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[QUOTE]Also almost every map on Challenge has Map Rarity Multiplier Value of 1. Which explains why items from chests and monsters on most challenges maps are horrible. Also I think they don't have Map Quality Multiplier. [/QUOTE]

I don't like this. :(

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Any idea how the vendor quality on items is determined? I get my best stuff from the vendor after doing hard or insane spook.


Definitely seems like the higher the difficulty, the better items he'll stock. I also noticed that the later of an area the map is, item quality will increase as well. That is, you'll get better loot doing Insane Ramparts (Area 3) than Insane Forges and Foundry (Area 1).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
the problem is 2 fold.

if they increase the quality on mobs, then the loot system needs to be improved to show good items.

Currently, i like that fact that anything that doesn't come out of a chest on a map is going to be trash, thus I never have to look at it.

the only drops I look at are from chests.

if this is changed, the loot mechanics for showing good loot needs an overhaul, look through every piece of loot on the ground is the most boring thing in the world.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
if this is changed, the loot mechanics for showing good loot needs an overhaul, look through every piece of loot on the ground is the most boring thing in the world.


this
and you just cant look at every one of them coz of overlaps
and i dont like the green red indicator
they would rather make colors to define rarity like i dunno grey for crap red for less crap then orange and so on
thats rarity

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Im glad chests drop same loot that i can get if keep inspecting all the loot on the ground. As it turns more and more frustrating to even try find something useful when your equipped fully godly gear and pretty much everything is red to you. The game still has option for you to look through loot and you can find gems through it. I used at start of game get my godlys mostly from watching loot on the ground, but glad theres alternative ways. No matter the method of getting loot its still random thats what matters in my opinion and challenge, boss rewards are what they are.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I used at start of game get my godlys mostly from watching loot on the ground


Which you can't anymore and Trendy has mentioned nothing about this change which = ninja nerf which = bs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
About the Shop :

function SetRandomShopEquipments(optional float qualityLevel=0.3, optional float extraRarity=-0.1)
{
local EquipmentNetInfo theInfo;
local HeroEquipment theEquipment,newEquipment;
local int i,p;//,n;

qualityLevel=qualityLevel*ShopItemQualityMutliplier+ShopItemQualityAddition;
extraRarity=extraRarity*ShopRarityMultiplier+ShopRarityAddition;

I don't know the shp item quality multiplier and shop rarity multiplier. neither the addition, I think it changes map by map.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I found the values of Shop Rarity Multiplier and Addition on Glitterhelm :

Shop Item Quality Addition = 0.072
Shop Item Quality Multiplier = 1.12
Shop Item Rarity Addition = 0.21
Shop Item Rarity Multiplier = 1.4

That's why the stats of the items are so good, they improve by 40% the rarity of them.

So while Chests have 3.95 Rarity on Glitter.
Shop Items will have 5.74 Rarity on Glitter.

There is a Weighting Multiplier based on Difficulty, I think it is 1.66 on Insane, so it will improve both further.
Also I found some items with rarity threshold of 7. I think those are the Halloween Weapons. Since the Rarity after multiplier will go beyond 7, it might make the shop spawn dlc weapons, for example the wolfenstein that appeared on one of the topics.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I think the Shop Item Rarity / Multiplier Values are the same for all maps, it's just that the map has it's own multiplier that is multiplied by that value. So for example Shop Items will always have 40% better rarity than chests and even 250% better than Monsters Drop.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Judging by those numbers. Would farming the 8 chests in insane glitter still be more effective then only farming 4 chests in insane spook? Or would the slightly higher multipliers and the fact spook goes up to wave 11 balance it out?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Whichever map has the highest core multiplier would drop the better equipment, but you're going to get a larger total of decent equipment in glitter because there's more chests; the difference in core quality between the levels is too low to get significantly better equipment more often from 4 chests. Spook = better high stat gear, Glitter = more high stat gear.

Speaking of which, the chests have an additional multiplier - chests in both spooktacular and glitter have a 1.75 multiplier on insane difficulty, above the base quality for the wave, which is likely why the monster drops don't feel as valuable.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I just wanted to update that most of the calculations I show are probably flawed, but the values are correct. ( The Multipliers / Rarity / etc ). The only thing that is probably wrong is how they are applied to each calculation.

I found the formulas in the DDDK, but am having some trouble analyzing it.
I might update this later when I understand it a little better.

If anyone wants to explore it I found those values at the DDDK Map Viewer by opening a map and exploring to kismet / world properties / archetypes.

And the formulas, it seems most of them are on HeroManager.uc ( something like that )

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The OP was talking about why the developers chose this system to distribute loot and gear to the players, and then the thread got hijacked by people with fancy math explaining the numbers. I can appreciate the numbers, but I'd rather the developers state why they did this and if they plan on changing it.

Having all the best gear come from chests makes it so no one wants to be the builder on Insane maps. While the builder is spending his time running around placing things in a short span of time, everyone else runs around getting all the loot. It's quite frustrating and just makes me want to solo everything I do, especially since you get more mana for whatever you're doing alone than with people.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I think after completing difficult challenges the store should have same teir items as difficulty of challenge, but sadly it's seems not to at all. You do an insane challenge and have items in the store as if you just did a first tier map on medium...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...