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My Thoughts Thus Far...


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Starting out seeing a new Dungeon Defenders title,  I was at first confused because I didn't hear about it at all until it's release. Of course, being that over the years; as many of us have,  I've played the franchise for countless hours between DDI, DD:FW DDE, DDII, DDA, and now DDGR, and on multiple platforms. So I just wanted to take a moment and weigh in, now that I've played the game through and got a pretty solid understanding for it.

First off, defending dungeons is down right fun, no matter the platform and that is no exception here. For the low price tag, I will easily get many more hours out of this title than it costs me to have it in my library. So already, that is a win in my book. I understand that CG isn't asking us to pay for DDA development; DD2 equally so, and with a dwindling player base I'm sure they need to do something to generate some revenue, so I have no issues with them using assets already provided to create another little gem for the players. Some players asked they just included this into DDA, which may have been a possibility, but then that would've compromised the trust of players when they said DDA updates would be free. (Though, I would have no issues paying for further development of DDA and DD2, provided the quality of the updates of course). Plus, now with the assets being developed for one game I'm sure it'd be a simple enough task to bring them from one game to the other so it's kind of like we get double the updates with a less required work load. From characters, maps, weapons, enemies models to even one game's features may influence something they add to the other game and that's super awesome.

Gameplay is fun, running back and forth from lanes to battle the incoming next wave is such a treat, always did love the added double jump in DDA and now they've included a small dash that can help me close those gaps. I feel like a basketball star jumping from the three point line for a dunk when I can clear the map and slam down on the opposition.  I feel like the skill and defense cooldowns are at a pretty solid starting point given the idea is to grow stronger with each completed wave and the talent tree as you continue grinding out your character's development.

Issues I've encountered, that I hope to be addressed are few and far between. Weapons do feel like they have an identity problem especially the squire, all the choppy-chop actions are the same. I'd like a sword to be faster and hit less and an big axe to be a bit slower and hit harder. The apprentice from one staff to the next they all feel pretty standard. I would like to see a distinction between multi-shot weapons and single shot weapons, this again probably just between a damage buff on a single shot or maybe unique affects that would help kill bigger targets on a single shot weapon vs. CC effects on multi-shot. The huntress has a pretty good feel to her balance on weapons, I do prefer the aoe power of the grenade launchers personally, as many of the single shot weapons just feel underwhelming. The monk is the monk, much love.. much respect. 

The talent tree is just missing a respec feature. Even early in, I would love to have the ability to move around my points so see how it impacts gameplay. The towers currently feel lack-luster compared to hero damage largely due to the bigger CD they have. but I also don't have the ability to put my points into that tree until I've grinded ALOT more to see how they could do. I feel like this is something that would increase interest to new players, have the ability to move around points freely (or with a small gold cost) so that we can try different styles as we explore the new formant. 

EDIT 3/30/22: It would also be nice if we could see stat gain/loss on equipping new items. Also to be able to see exactly what you unlocked at the end of a game vs. just the icon.

If you read all this, thank you! Let me know your thoughts as well, and if you wanna play sometime, you can let me know that too!

TLDR: Game is pretty fun, definitely needs some development tweaks. I think it has a fair amount of potential, and for 15 dollars I'm more than happy to support Chromatic Games and the future of Dungeon Defenders!

Edited by Renekou
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I was also surprised by DDRG dropping, having thought on it I totally understand the separate client route - easier to sell to non DDA players etc. 

 

I'm having fun so far, ofc the game defo needs fleshing out:

- matchmaking

- in game scoreboard

- weapons needs to feel a bit more impactful esp the super slow guns.

- faster early game (not tried hard yet, maybe that deals with it). 

- reduce the brightness on some effects, sometimes I can't see I'm being shot at cos the screen is lit up with super bright effects.

 

11/12 years ago DD1 was so awesome, but things change and the way we play and want to play has changed (I can't spend hours grinding survival now etc.) And exploring new gameplay opportunities is defo worth it - as I'm sure what they learn (no kappa) will shape DD3 e.g. skill tree, abilities, synergy builds.  

 

 

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I agree that it makes sense as it's own game, and the fact that DDA owners can get it for around $7 is great.  The only thing that feels weird is that they released it before the PS port of DDA, which is scheduled for May.  Maybe they can release together, since they mentioned GR releasing on consoles as well.

Regardless, looking forward to playing more and seeing future updates for it.  Maybe next up will be a DD Kart Racer.

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I was rather upset at first when the game announcement dropped. The timing given the current state of DDA hit me like a lead balloon. After I calmed down and thought more sensibly I decided to be honest I should give this game a go and if nothing else can always refund it within 2hrs. I have never played anything like this game previously, what drew me to dd1 back on the Xbox360 was the strategy and unique mix of APRG + TD coming more from a RTS background. I fell in love instantly, lost count of how many times I bought any of the other titles between platforms and family members.

I am not sure how much I like this new title, but even for me who really doesnt like action based games found it fun. Took me a little while to get it working well enough on controller for me during combat, but after I worked it out became way more pleasant. I really dont think with playing this it would feel right as paid dlc for DDA, although there is allot of crossover its much better as a standalone game. I still feel a little doubtful if the game will be enough to get the influx of money they need, they have not really marketed it enough. There was a clear chance to go outside the existing DD community with a game like this to get as much reach as possible. They just dropped the game then announced it, that really hindered them in terms of sales in my opinion. I have always wanted the company to succeed, but I keep seeing the same mistakes each time with marketing and lack of any hype before whatever drops.

I had a few bugs but most of the gameplay has been smoother than DDA (even if I totally fail everytime steep learning curve for me). The lighting in most of the maps outshines the same maps in DDA. The new arenas for bosses are way more fun than the tests and closer I think to what we would of wanted there for DDA. The permament buffs seem pretty lackluster considering the level progression time. The chest rewards are also a little disappointing, I think perhaps better reward but less of them - eg perhaps one reward you can pick each wave and end game chest 2 drops and go ham with boss map rewards to make you feel really good for beating each boss as u get to end of the run.. Having the runes stack is good, but from looking at other rouguelike games, they seem to go less reward heavy but you can feel overpowered really quickly. The smaller increments for many runes does not quite give that instant boost you might expect even if after 6 runes with 4 chests would give you that boost. There has to be balance in the game to keep up the challenge so thats why I think fewer but better is the way to go. The cooldowns over all seem a little long, some better than others and for the lower mob count I can understand, but still leaves me frustrated at times. I have not yet had a chance to play multiplayer so cannot comment there, but I expect it might be more fun than solo. 

For the price it is currently its in a decent spot, it will all depend what they intend to do going forward with content they add here. I dont want to soley judge the price with what is there currently since they are planning to add more before launch. If the game as fully released as it stands though as a standalone I am not that sure if its worth it. You get more than enough playtime for the price, but comparing it quickly to other games of the genre I haver to be a little harsh. I hope with roguelike there might be some scope for paid dlc additions like hero bundles of 3 or4 per dlc but maps added free. Since they are expecting to release content for this and DDA more or less simultaneously there has to be some pricing model DLC wise to make sense. Given how the game seems to playout I think heroes themselves could be monetised, but maps as content to keep everyone equal if more bosses etc, should be free so everyone can at least level the same. Since for the moment its not PVP I feel its probably the fairest way to keep the money going and keep the players feeling they have value for money. If PVP mode was added I would feel a little different monetising heroes incase of one or 2 being P2W there. I dont see paid cosmetics really working here, but I am willing to debate if anyone disagrees. 

EDIT Played with a friend and sadly things started to go wrong a few black screen events and not loading in game correctly, but eventually got into a run. All would go well until Demon Lord arena fight we completed the map after then I got booted to menu with some sort of server error. I loaded game lobby back and as suspected you are not able to join into a game session that is running so had to wait. While waiting I decided to try solo play and then met with enemies refusing to take damage and forced to restart the client. This has happened to us a couple of times now and as such we decided to remain solo. With talking to others it does seem the multiplayer needs more work and I would advise waiting to play with others until they sort it out.

The game being in early access and we are still in the first few days I did expect some bugs and glitches so most of those are not specified here. The only annoying persistent glitch is that for some reason everytime after closing the game when I go back it am always asked which save to use cloud or local. I am not sure if this is a glitch since it is everytime but it is the most annoying thing of the little niggles.

Edited by dizzydiana
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18 hours ago, dizzydiana said:

There was a clear chance to go outside the existing DD community with a game like this to get as much reach as possible. They just dropped the game then announced it, that really hindered them in terms of sales in my opinion.

Agree, but it is only in EA at the moment, and a full advertised release in this state would likely not go well with non-DD fans.  Once it has a bit more polish I hope they give it better marketing before full release.

18 hours ago, dizzydiana said:

I have not yet had a chance to play multiplayer so cannot comment there, but I expect it might be more fun than solo.

Same here.  I've not had the time to play much, only 2-3 runs with the furthest beating the Demon boss when the game crashed.  It definitely feels like it's targeted towards multiplayer, but still doable solo.

18 hours ago, dizzydiana said:

I dont see paid cosmetics really working here, but I am willing to debate if anyone disagrees

I could see hero skins, but they would likely need to be a package deal.  They can always add Holiday-themed hats and Pizza wings.

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3 minutes ago, Batophobia said:

Agree, but it is only in EA at the moment, and a full advertised release in this state would likely not go well with non-DD fans.  Once it has a bit more polish I hope they give it better marketing before full release.

i understand its only in Early Access but how many people even knew of the games existence within the DD community never mind outwith it? After reading Lawlta's post explaining things with the company they clearly need an influx of money to keep the lights on. Given that they need this game to be relatively successful and if you want to capitalise on an entirely different genre it needs to be put to that community, who more likely have not heard of DD or not interested in the other titles. They have a very long standing history in lack of marketing especially to anyone unfamiliar with the IP even in their own community they dont hype up anything much. Word of mouth only goes so far and sadly many of the community have moved on entirely unwilling to even try the new title. Fairly or not they cannot easily shake the history of previous missteps and have to try to regain allot of trust. I try to be more positive even though myself have issues given the history since I really do wish success and have loved each title I played at one point or another. This game is a new experience for me and maybe given its out of my comfort zone I might be more harsh than I should, but hopefully I am at least constructive in my criticism.

13 minutes ago, Batophobia said:

I could see hero skins, but they would likely need to be a package deal.  They can always add Holiday-themed hats and Pizza wings.

Fair point, I am just not sure if cosmetics would be the draw for people in a game like this. For this sort of game I see heroes being THE thing people would want to spend cash on. As long as they dont make the mistake of long periods of time with no content and any worthwhile content added being free. There is allot of scope to expand this sort of title and needs a good pricing model going forward, but I feel the model should be different from DDA. There will be some cross overs in the playerbase, but also allot who would only like one genre and not the other so treating them different just makes sense to me.

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Made an account just to post my own initial feedback, the game is fun and i know it's early access so much can change especially with the community feedback being taken into account.
 for background I own every DD game on steam and have been playing them off and on for years yadda yadda fanboy stuff.
now for the game,
1. the lack of matchmaking, which I'm sure is planned..... it has to be for a game like this it just makes sense
2. honestly in terms of runes and items, so far from my experience it mostly feels pretty good, they definitely let you know very quickly that defenses are not the focus which is totally fine
3. talents, this is where my biggest issue with the game falls for me (other than matchmaking but I'm still hopeful its a matter of time for that) the most impactful talent feels like it's the extra projectile for ranged characters, now I'm not saying move that to the final tier I'm saying it feels bad that you can't really FEEL the points you put in, nothing feels like it overly matters thus far and I feel like every level should make a difference not receiving less than a fraction of a wave 1 item even at max in a section

to go ahead and DL:DR and sum it all up, the game over all is fun, i think it was a good choice as a spin of the original games but it's definitely a little rough and I wish that leveling up just made you feel stronger than it does, especially for people like myself playing alone cause there's no match making lol

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9 minutes ago, Chalupa said:

Made an account just to post my own initial feedback, the game is fun and i know it's early access so much can change especially with the community feedback being taken into account.
 for background I own every DD game on steam and have been playing them off and on for years yadda yadda fanboy stuff.
now for the game,
1. the lack of matchmaking, which I'm sure is planned..... it has to be for a game like this it just makes sense
2. honestly in terms of runes and items, so far from my experience it mostly feels pretty good, they definitely let you know very quickly that defenses are not the focus which is totally fine
3. talents, this is where my biggest issue with the game falls for me (other than matchmaking but I'm still hopeful its a matter of time for that) the most impactful talent feels like it's the extra projectile for ranged characters, now I'm not saying move that to the final tier I'm saying it feels bad that you can't really FEEL the points you put in, nothing feels like it overly matters thus far and I feel like every level should make a difference not receiving less than a fraction of a wave 1 item even at max in a section

to go ahead and DL:DR and sum it all up, the game over all is fun, i think it was a good choice as a spin of the original games but it's definitely a little rough and I wish that leveling up just made you feel stronger than it does, especially for people like myself playing alone cause there's no match making lol

You can play with others, but only from friends list or in a steam group. Multiplayer with public games will be coming later they are having issues with getting the right provider to keep it P2P and provide session browsers. The end of last year they ran into an issue with Playfab who announced they were changing their systems and thats who CG were working with. As soon as they find another service I am sure public browsers will come in both DDA and DDGR. I agree with yourself about the talent tree nothing there much to chase or feel much benefit from. Hopefully they will look into the tree and will allow resetting of points in some way. The gold spending for the tavern also needs some more thought since the gold earned and how the items function seems to not make it worthwhile using often.

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8 hours ago, dizzydiana said:

You can play with others, but only from friends list or in a steam group. Multiplayer with public games will be coming later they are having issues with getting the right provider to keep it P2P and provide session browsers. The end of last year they ran into an issue with Playfab who announced they were changing their systems and thats who CG were working with. As soon as they find another service I am sure public browsers will come in both DDA and DDGR. I agree with yourself about the talent tree nothing there much to chase or feel much benefit from. Hopefully they will look into the tree and will allow resetting of points in some way. The gold spending for the tavern also needs some more thought since the gold earned and how the items function seems to not make it worthwhile using often.

glad you agree on the talents, as for the rest i honestly don't know anyone else who really plays DD games so i've never really had anything but solo or match making when i play them 

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