Jump to content

Recommended Posts

Posted (edited)
On 7/22/2020 at 12:26 PM, UncrownedData said:

You say revitalize the game, as if it is dead...  This game has not even been out for 2 full months. 

Their new, flagship product has roughly half as many players as the years old free to play product that they themselves agree didn't work out. It barely has more players than the decade old game it's trying to usurp.  For perspective, it's averaging fewer players now than it was when it was still in "early access".  Maybe it isn't "dead", but it certainly isn't thriving.

I'm in no position to know how much runway they have, but I'd be surprised if they don't try to start selling DLC soon.  Every month that goes by, you end up with fewer people that are going to come back to buy it.

 

steamcharts.jpg

Edited by Zuqual
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Kobaltscave said:

That’s why I hate people that rag on that it is getting boring it is still in development 😫

Hate me and other bored players all you want.  I don't begrudge you your enjoyment of the game.  But if you do care about the future of a game that is, as you say, still in development (despite having sold itself at a AAA price and launched to the public), then you should be concerned that players are bored.  Your frustration with other players not sharing your enthusiasm doesn't change the economic reality for the studio.

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Kobaltscave said:

That’s why I hate people that rag on that it is getting boring it is still in development 😫

M8, the game is "released" and has been ressucitated 3 times already, as Zuqual has said, the game is dying, once again.

The game is fun, but it's an incomplete product and the lack of communication we've been crying out for for the past 4 months still hasn't been solved. I love DD, I think it's one of the best games I've played, but it's being mismanaged by overly enthusiatic devs who always want to reinvent the wheel.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah I am just waiting that is all nothing serious it is a game for crying out loud it comes out when they are done and it will be fun for some people and some people won’t that is how people work not trying to hurt anyone just want to have fun with friends and family playing dda on console or whatever 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, Kobaltscave said:

That’s why I hate people that rag on that it is getting boring it is still in development 😫

Yeah because releasing a game for 25 bucks while it's still in development with barely any content is for sure make a good impression. I quit playing like 3 weeks ago and every once in a while I come back here but there's still no progress. That huge list of bugs is probably still not resolved. It's just sad at this point.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Fuzzyape said:

That huge list of bugs is probably still not resolved

To be fair, they have been doing pretty well in the dealing with bugs department.  The game does consistently get more stable, but squashing bugs isn't enough to keep the player base coming back.

8 hours ago, Kobaltscave said:

it comes out when they are done

I appreciate that CG is working hard on this during pandemic issues and having a pool as an office, but it was their choice to come out of beta into early access when they did.  It was also their choice to do their official release when they did.

It's true that no game is ever perfect, but they had a checklist of things that were expected in the finished product.  When you decide to classify your game as "released" without some of those things (like local co-op), then expect players to be disappointed and frustrated.  Especially when the communication with the community has been a consistent problem since the beginning.  So many problems could be alleviated by simply saying something before doing something.

The DD community is one of the better ones.  They are passionate about the games, they can be pretty forgiving about mistakes when made right, and they can be very patient and understanding if given the opportunity.  If CG says they need to delay a release, the vast majority would be fine with it.  Instead, they release with missing features and the whole "Legacy" problem.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, Zuqual said:

Their new, flagship product has roughly half as many players as the years old free to play product that they themselves agree didn't work out. It barely has more players than the decade old game it's trying to usurp.  For perspective, it's averaging fewer players now than it was when it was still in "early access".  Maybe it isn't "dead", but it certainly isn't thriving.

I'm in no position to know how much runway they have, but I'd be surprised if they don't try to start selling DLC soon.  Every month that goes by, you end up with fewer people that are going to come back to buy it.

This is good analysis.  It's not what I want to hear, but it's good analysis nonetheless.  Anecdotally, I'm hoping that as patches are released and progress is made, the player base (which I consider to be very loyal) will keep an ear out, learn of the progress, and return to play (with wallets open when DLC is ready).  Ideally, enhancements in the next few months will make them glad they did.  It's true that I stopped playing for nearly all of July, but the itch did return. 

Of course I had to contrive a fun way to re-engage (I deleted my legacy characters and started from the beginning) and I'm not expecting others to do the same.  But I do hope that by the time my new team is level 100 and new challenges to conquer get harder to find (does that happen?  Is there massacre gear good enough to make all the maps reasonable to beat for a solo player?) that there will also be a reliable schedule for new content.  It feels to me like the best step into the future for DDA is the publication of SDK.  I don't think I've seen any reference to that anywhere.  I would think that should be part of the plan?  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If we boil this down, almost everyone here that is upset with the current state is only upset because you chose to spend 200-300+ hours in the first month it was out.  I think any veteran DD player should understand that DD isn't a game that can inherently entertain you for 200 hours a month for several months on end forever.  It is equally players' responsibility to figure out how to have fun with a game or go play something else in the meantime while content comes out.  And any NEW player that is this upset over his/her first DD game, well.. You've gone pretty far out of your way to talk about something that isn't exclusive to just this studio.  

In my opinion the only valid complaint so far has been one of the price point, which is probably a little high. 

That said, understand this is basically a brand new development studio.  Most (maybe all) of the main developers for DD1 are out.  The price point is supporting more than just one single game that you all have unrealistic expectations of.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, UncrownedData said:

[...] I think any veteran DD player should understand that DD isn't a game that can inherently entertain you for 200 hours a month for several months on end forever. [...]

I have over 1k hours in dd1, at least 900 of which were played in a 4-4.5 month span. I only stopped because other games came out. You yourself have over 2k hours in DD1, you should know that what you said is wrong.

And anyway, no one complains that they can't play for a bajillion hours per month. The complaints are very often based on the lack of content that should have been there at release, as was promised.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

The current state of the game is also not favorable for such a long break without any updates. Massacre campaign is out and probably beaten by a good amount of veterans already, but Massacre survival is missing. Keep in mind that the game and especially the long term motivation in a DD game is mainly driven by loot. And there is no point to overgrind the current content, when all your gear will become obsolete with the next big update.

You could argue, that people might want to prepare for Massacre survival by gearing up, but exactly this gearing up process has already happened and was too fast. DD1 was extreme in this regard, maybe a bit too much, but that super lucky RNG drop was something, people could spend many many hours into. DDA is on the opposite end again, making it quite easy to get decent sets within a few runs. And - as I said - it is just not worth it to grind the last bit of stats out of the current content at the moment.

In addition the shift towards hero damage and the massive nerf of tower DPS might be harmful in the long run for Massacre survival. Frankly, the balance was fine for the campaign mode - I would even say that's how the campaign mode should be - more focused on hero damage / active gameplay. But I cannot see that work well with multiple, hour long survival runs. The focus on hero damage requires (too much) active gameplay and many players, who just like to set up a relaxed farm run might not play that much then. If you want to encourage high activity from the players you also have to reward them more. This shortens the gameplay time and therefor reduces the player numbers more quickly.

Edited by The Ich
  • Like 4
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^ Really hope the devs read that and try and emulate DD1s progression curve.  You are right, there isn’t much to grind and the little there is doesn’t take too long.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, chpoit said:

I have over 1k hours in dd1, at least 900 of which were played in a 4-4.5 month span. I only stopped because other games came out. You yourself have over 2k hours in DD1, you should know that what you said is wrong.

And anyway, no one complains that they can't play for a bajillion hours per month. The complaints are very often based on the lack of content that should have been there at release, as was promised.

I am not the one complaining about lack of content.  I didn't play 200+ hours for multiple months in a row.  I found ways to make the game fun and took breaks intermittently.  As I initially suggested.  What I said is not wrong. It is an opinion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, The Ich said:

The current state of the game is also not favorable for such a long break without any updates. Massacre campaign is out and probably beaten by a good amount of veterans already, but Massacre survival is missing. Keep in mind that the game and especially the long term motivation in a DD game is mainly driven by loot. And there is no point to overgrind the current content, when all your gear will become obsolete with the next big update.

You could argue, that people might want to prepare for Massacre survival by gearing up, but exactly this gearing up process has already happened and was too fast. DD1 was extreme in this regard, maybe a bit too much, but that super lucky RNG drop was something, people could spend many many hours into. DDA is on the opposite end again, making it quite easy to get decent sets within a few runs. And - as I said - it is just not worth it to grind the last bit of stats out of the current content at the moment.

In addition the shift towards hero damage and the massive nerf of tower DPS might be harmful in the long run for Massacre survival. Frankly, the balance was fine for the campaign mode - I would even say that's how the campaign mode should be - more focused on hero damage / active gameplay. But I cannot see that work well with multiple, hour long survival runs. The focus on hero damage requires (too much) active gameplay and many players, who just like to set up a relaxed farm run might not play that much then. If you want to encourage high activity from the players you also have to reward them more. This shortens the gameplay time and therefor reduces the player numbers more quickly.

In my opinion, this is the first fair explanation of why the lack of content is a problem.  I still disagree that we as a community have a basis to be too upset when it has only been 2 months (especially considering the devs probably aren't talking face-to-face and developing together in a close, intimate space that would normally be conducive to faster release of new content).  Obviously the approach most people here are taking (bashing the brand new studio) isn't working in getting better communication or whatever the real root desire is.

 

Personally, I am glad to be able to play the new game, even if it is a little buggy.  I am shocked that others are not able to find a positive outlook in this whole experience. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, UncrownedData said:

Personally, I am glad to be able to play the new game, even if it is a little buggy.  I am shocked that others are not able to find a positive outlook in this whole experience. 

If they would let me, a console peasant, play the game. I would try and find a positive outlook :)

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, chpoit said:

The complaints are very often based on the lack of content

The are the complaints that tend to confuse me the most.  DD1 launched with fewer maps and only the first 4 difficulty settings.  That was sufficient content for the launch of DD1, so having Nightmare and the campaign of Massacre, along with 3 extra maps, included at "launch" of DDA should make for enough content.  I'd have to agree that the problem likely comes from players that brought in their EA characters so the relatively minor amount of added content between the ending EA build and the 1.0 release build was not enough.

21 hours ago, UncrownedData said:

the only valid complaint so far has been one of the price point

I think the complaints regarding broken promises about the launch are also valid.  There's still a lot of users that are waiting for split-screen and the Switch version (promised at launch) as well as those waiting for other console versions (promised in Q3).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Batophobia said:

The are the complaints that tend to confuse me the most.  DD1 launched with fewer maps and only the first 4 difficulty settings.  That was sufficient content for the launch of DD1, so having Nightmare and the campaign of Massacre, along with 3 extra maps, included at "launch" of DDA should make for enough content. 

DD1 was amazing and new and innovative and joyful.  And if this was the first game in a new franchise, I think people would give it a lot more slack.  But it isn't.  It's the fourth game in a well developed franchise and is currently delivering very little compared to the first game.  Hell, I'd argue that Dungeon Defenders Eternity, a game that cost $6, delivered more value than Dungeon Defenders Awakened.  The only thing this game has going for it is massacre.  As someone with >2000 hours in the franchise, I've always hated build timers and haven't bothered with massacre past The Deeper Well. To quote Gigazelle's review:

Despite Chromatic's avid claims that this title is not a remake of DD1, in its current state this is quite literally a remake of DD1 minus 90% of the content.
 

  • You have the exact same four base heroes
  • Summoning the exact same defenses
  • Which cost the exact same defense units and mana
  • Killing the exact same enemies
  • On most of the same maps.

 

And that's the problem.  This isn't the first entry into a new franchise and I don't think we should be upset when people don't treat it like it is.  

 

 

 

Edited by Zuqual
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
40 minutes ago, Zuqual said:

[..] It's the fourth game in a well developed franchise and is currently delivering very little compared to the first game.  Hell, I'd argue that Dungeon Defenders Eternity, a game that cost $6, delivered more value than Dungeon Defenders Awakened.  [...]

I wouldn't go saying that DDE had value, but then again I'd completely forgotten it existed and don't even remember any of the ~100h I have in that abomination.

Edited by chpoit

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/25/2020 at 12:57 PM, Zuqual said:

if this was the first game in a new franchise, I think people would give it a lot more slack.  But it isn't.  It's the fourth game in a well developed franchise and is currently delivering very little compared to the first game

As you mentioned, this is a remake of the first game in a franchise.  As such, it should be compared to the original in the same way you might do for the Spyro remake, the Final Fantasy 7 remake, or maybe even Pokemon Let's Go.  The graphics are much better, there's new QoL features that are much appreciated, and it will hopefully introduce new players into the magic many of us experience when we first played this decade-old franchise.

Unfortunately, DD1 has 26 DLC packs plus an amazing community that's made so much extra content for it.  Expecting a remake to contain all the content of the base game, plus all the content of it's DLC, plus some content from the most popular community made stuff, plus entirely new things is unrealistic.  Even more so when it was only revealed on Kickstarter roughly 16 months ago.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My question is this, are the people that are complaining about the game being stale already the same people that cried because they lost their progress from the ALPHA? What I'm saying is, if you are, then you purposefully requested to be bored. You wanted your characters back that already had basically maxed out gear so you wouldn't have to enjoy playing the game from a fresh start and regrinding the gear. To anyone complaining that this doesn't pertain to you, then ignore this, but if it does, you asked to be bored, plain and simple. People referencing DD1, yeah it has TONS of content, that was released over years. When DD1 first came out, it didn't even have as much content as this game. Calm down folks. Play other games till stuff comes out. Patience is a virtue. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
On 7/27/2020 at 8:33 PM, Stankface said:

snip

Patience may be a virtue, but being lied to and accepting it isn't.

As they say, fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice shame on me. And when it come to DDA, there sure has been a lot of fooling people, espescially the console folk.

Edited by chpoit
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...