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drchrisms

Cut them some slack[with a cheeky suggestion inside]

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Posted (edited)

SUGGESTION: Why not give EA Players [insert number here, depending on your decision] CONSUMABLE/S that when used, will put a character to Level 90?

1. Could be done via sending of codes.

2. Make the item to have a Required Level of 10 and BELOW.

3. Make the item to have a Level Limit of 90 and below so you won't use it accidentally.

4. No migrating of info will happen.

5. People will be getting the code via their email from which their DDA account's attached with.

 

They'll reply if they can. Won't if they can't. Simple as that. They just can't willy nilly reply to every issue/complain that we post without even thinking about the probable future repercussions of such reply.

The "forced wipe" is a d*ck move. But could've probably informed us 2-3weeks before the release and people would have taken this a bit better.

The price decrease is a d*ck move since they said that for they won't lower the prices in favor of EA people. But in a business standpoint, a discount COULD mean more people might actually get the game and that would help for the future of the game.

The price decrease and division of LEGACY and PLAY players is a d*ck move and made EA people feel that they've been left out since for us to play our hard earned characters, we're stuck in LEGACY while those that would just be buying the game would probably press PLAY since that button's really big and the fact that the probability that there will be more players on that side is higher. Then again, I've read posts where people just play solo, so why would this hurt you that much if you're one of those people. If you're the multiplayer kind of guy, restarting on a new server won't be that bad if you'd be starting with your new friends? To each his own I guess.

 

TL:DR. They're getting bombarded. Cut them some slack. Flame me all you want. I'll just be going to the other part and just restart. I could just go back and play on LEGACY whenever I want anyways since I lost no progress.

Edited by drchrisms
added a suggestion.

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I find the main issue is the price change. As that can directly effect the worth of the product and is outside of the product as a whole. While the product may change in a number of ways throughout the development, both planned and unplanned, the price should always remain the same if stated at the point of sale that it would. It pretty much should not be covered under the same guise as the "product may change" and comes closer to false advertising,

I have no qualms with the Legacy and Play. If the game had to change that way it is down to the developers, as we bought in early with the knowledge and enough warning that things could change at any time. It may suck but it is honestly the nature of Early Access. Though like always, communication could have been better. Even with their statement I can say I am confused on why or when the decision was made, I just know that they believe keeping progress on Legacy is a good compromise.

They should be a lot more careful about what promises they can and can't make.

Personally however, I find getting too far into an inferior early version, then jumping off from the most recent point into 1.0, is bad for my experience, as I feel I would miss out on that early game with full features, drops and so on anyway. I also find the game to be fun to play so playing through it again is fine. I mean I lost my characters on DD1 and couldn't get them back. It really annoyed me... but then I just played again and had fun.

But I agree, with people claiming for refunds after hours of play, people are going overboard. I understand being upset but everyone is treating this like they got an unplayable game. It is too much.

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Fuck the price, I dont mind. Whatever brings more people to the game is good. They get more money and I get more people to play with. Win win. I do feel backstabbed by their move to put all my efforts the last months into legacy mode. It's not like this is impossible to forsee, so they should have thought about it way back when they announced it wouldnt be a wipe. Then I could make an informed decision to not play much untill release knowing that my efforts wouldn't be worth it before actual release. Instead, I feel burned out right at the get go, and it feels really bad! This should be a celebration, instead they made it into a funeral.

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23 minutes ago, LemonyNebula said:

But I agree, with people claiming for refunds after hours of play, people are going overboard. I understand being upset but everyone is treating this like they got an unplayable game. It is too much.

I spent 30cents per hour on a game that I get to keep forever(yeah, only clocked 150hrs). This is worth it in my opinion, and it will vary for others. But whenever I try to want to complain that I got ripped off because I bought a game and it turned out, after patches, to be unplayable for me. I go back to the times(<2000) when I actually go to computer shops and rent, just to play some game I won't even get to keep. Spent thousands that way, never complained.

 

15 minutes ago, krsans78 said:

 I do feel backstabbed by their move to put all my efforts the last months into legacy mode. It's not like this is impossible to forsee, so they should have thought about it way back when they announced it wouldnt be a wipe. Then I could make an informed decision to not play much untill release knowing that my efforts wouldn't be worth it before actual release. Instead, I feel burned out right at the get go, and it feels really bad! This should be a celebration, instead they made it into a funeral.

Every, without an exception, will fill this way, and yes, like I've said, if they announced that this will happen 2-3weeks before the release, the acceptance would've been better. Since if they did inform us 2-3weeks before, maybe players wouldn't be playing for those whole duration and just start off on the new one without a hitch. Who knows, maybe for until before launch, they've been looking for ways to transfer profile and such. 

What do you think? would it appease the people if they can port, even just 1-2 character LEVEL from Legacy to Play? Just a character of their choice, without any items or weapons. IMO, the stats that those have would carry you up back to probably Insane, easy, and give you a jump start in farming.

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OP:  I'm with you.  The vitriol is unnecessary.  

$15... barely enough to keep me in beer today.  I bought an air conditioner on amazon for $179 2 weeks ago and now it's $139.  Oh, well.  I bought it when I wanted it because I wanted it then, not now.  Prices change in a market economy.

Legacy:  The notion that your 450 hours in what is now Legacy was "wasted" confuses me.  You either enjoyed your time playing so far or you didn't.  Start over, or don't.  Play on Legacy if that's what you want.  If you didn't enjoy endless NMHC Promenade Survival runs, hoping for a decent giraffe, then don't do it again.

Being Lied To/Mislead:  I was married for 18 years and I supervise 7 people.  You kinda get used to it.  It's a healthy opportunity to remember to hold everyone on earth in some degree of distrust.  Except maybe Mom... though I'm not entirely sure I trust her, either.  :)

If you love the game... if you love the franchise (which is the best tower defense RPG combination that has ever existed, hands down), keep the histrionics in the family.  Blasting disappointment all over Steam has no benefit and might well cost us new players in what is a small community anyway.

I hope this all passes fairly soon, because until then it's going to be challenging to discuss the kinds of things that REALLY matter.  Like the between-wave build times are too short.  I beat the first 3 maps on massacre last night and never finished a build.  Didn't have time.

Best wishes to all.

 

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25 minutes ago, Damocles said:

 

Being Lied To/Mislead:  I was married for 18 years and I supervise 7 people.  You kinda get used to it.  It's a healthy opportunity to remember to hold everyone on earth in some degree of distrust.  Except maybe Mom... though I'm not entirely sure I trust her, either.  :)

 

 

Wanted to make a comparison regarding marriage or relationship. Hesitated, might poke on some hives that I don't want to poke :)

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To me A big issue is that we played EA and gave our input on what was wrong and what need to be added to the game yet they did none of that even input that had sevel people backing it like better bag sorting options or even multi bags that we could name and move stuff to. But no they did nothing and this wipe or legacy server could have been avoided if they would have given us the option to simply move our current game save to the non-legacy server they could have even told us about it weeks ago and given us time to think about what we would like to do or prepare mentally to restart I had 303 hours into EA I know that’s not a lot compared to many people buy that’s still 303 hours of my life that I put into this and not its gone because I don’t with to play with moders and cheaters but for real they took zero of our input about making the game better and gave us like half of what they promised took our money and ran to the bank then lowered the price to get more money, but that going to be hard with all the crap reviews that game now has.

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6 minutes ago, interval said:

To me A big issue is that we played EA and gave our input on what was wrong and what need to be added to the game yet they did none of that even input that had sevel people backing it like better bag sorting options or even multi bags that we could name and move stuff to. But no they did nothing and this wipe or legacy server could have been avoided if they would have given us the option to simply move our current game save to the non-legacy server they could have even told us about it weeks ago and given us time to think about what we would like to do or prepare mentally to restart I had 303 hours into EA I know that’s not a lot compared to many people buy that’s still 303 hours of my life that I put into this and not its gone because I don’t with to play with moders and cheaters but for real they took zero of our input about making the game better and gave us like half of what they promised took our money and ran to the bank then lowered the price to get more money, but that going to be hard with all the crap reviews that game now has.

 

Yes. that is indeed an issue. Can't deny that.  Communication lapses is pretty much the issue here. To be fair, they have NDA for sure and can't say anything unless they get the green light to do so. 

As for the price, I myself was surprised but.. I'm not entirely affected since when I decided to buy the game, I decided to give that full 40$. Like what Damocles said, we bought it at the time we wanted/needed it, unknowingly that there'd be a Sale.

About the suggestions, yeah, bag sorting and more options would've been great QoL improvements.

As for reviews, if it simply has, "DON'T BUY, GAME SUCKS", that won't really affect those people that really reads reviews, but if it's a well thought out negative review, that might affect some, but with the Sale and the ability to refund after a few hours into the game, there'd still be people that would be buying the game just because of the sale. Those people would probably be playing more than enough to forfeit the refund timer though so.. yeah :)

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Price was never and issue for me as I backed the game on kick starter and still paid the $40, so yeah but everything else is a big issue to me

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41 minutes ago, Damocles said:

-snip-

Legacy:  The notion that your 450 hours in what is now Legacy was "wasted" confuses me.  You either enjoyed your time playing so far or you didn't.  Start over, or don't.  Play on Legacy if that's what you want.  If you didn't enjoy endless NMHC Promenade Survival runs, hoping for a decent giraffe, then don't do it again.

-snip-

If you love the game... if you love the franchise (which is the best tower defense RPG combination that has ever existed, hands down), keep the histrionics in the family.  Blasting disappointment all over Steam has no benefit and might well cost us new players in what is a small community anyway.

-snip-

I would compare it (imperfectly) to reading the first two books in a trilogy and then finding out that you have to reread them in order to access the third.   You obviously enjoyed the first two, or you wouldn't want to read the third.  But it's such a waste of your time.  You still vividly remember the first two.  Having to reread them is just an unnecessary and pointless slog.  Some people would be ok with it, but it's understandable that others wouldn't.  

As far as "keeping it in the family" goes, you get the behavior you tolerate.

 

 

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29 minutes ago, Zuqual said:

I would compare it (imperfectly) to reading the first two books in a trilogy and then finding out that you have to reread them in order to access the third.   You obviously enjoyed the first two, or you wouldn't want to read the third.  But it's such a waste of your time.  You still vividly remember the first two.  Having to reread them is just an unnecessary and pointless slog.  Some people would be ok with it, but it's understandable that others wouldn't.  

As far as "keeping it in the family" goes, you get the behavior you tolerate.

Or any game where you have to walk across the entire map to continue playing.  Sure you enjoyed playing through it the first time, but there is such a thing as excessive backtracking.

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2 hours ago, Zuqual said:

I would compare it (imperfectly) to reading the first two books in a trilogy and then finding out that you have to reread them in order to access the third.   You obviously enjoyed the first two, or you wouldn't want to read the third.  But it's such a waste of your time.  You still vividly remember the first two.  Having to reread them is just an unnecessary and pointless slog.  Some people would be ok with it, but it's understandable that others wouldn't.  

I love the comparison.  I'm okay with it and I understand that others are not.  

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1 hour ago, Kyubey-_-Live'n'Died said:

Cromatic Games "There will be no wipe"

 

BULLSHIT, there was a wipe. 

 

forgive me for actually thinking cromatic would keep their promises. fuck you cromatic

Where was the WIPE? No progress was lost. You can continue on with LEGACY, or just play with the new one. Now, now, I'm aware that there'd be tons of other reason and stuff, but yeah, no wipe happened.

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Posted (edited)

a wipe happen, whether you want to acknowledge it or not. it happen. 

 

so to your question, why isn't my data in PLAY? no yea its NOT. its a wipe. 

Edited by Kyubey-_-Live'n'Died

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34 minutes ago, drchrisms said:

Where was the WIPE? No progress was lost.

The community has gotten into a lot of semantics over the word "wipe" in the last day, we should probably find a better word to use.  But regardless, you're correct, no progress was "lost."  However, all progress was significantly altered without warning by being moved to an area which is designed to support mods.  Mods will very, very likely unbalance the game, which means that all of our progress is now moved to an unbalanced environment.  I believe that in many people's eyes, that is a decrease in value.  I didn't spend 300+ hours level 2-3 of each hero past level 90 in an unbalanced environment.  I did it because I wanted to spend this weekend tackling the challenges of massacre mode in the same environment I'd been using.  And I was led to believe that would be possible.

Maybe migrating all of that data to the new environment "technically" wasn't a lie, but it showed a very clear disrespect for the players' time IMO.

My suggestion for a compromise here: take the EA heroes only and move them to play at their current levels.  Forget about the gear, it's all going to be replaced with massacre gear anyway.  Forget about the gold, that will be earned back while getting the massacre gear.  Leaving both behind also removes any concern about EA gear being OP/unbalanced, or gold having been too easy to earn in EA.  This is a game focused on the endgame grind.  Arbitrarily forcing players to run boring content for no good reason is not fun.  Giving us our heroes at their current level will let us breeze through the lower difficulties and get to where we want to be.

I do agree with your original point though, we should cut them a little slack.  There's no reason for anyone to be disrespectful/rude/demanding of individual CG employees.  We need to let them do their job.  We've voiced our concerns pretty thoroughly at this point, it's on them to answer and continue the discussion if they want to show that they value our input.

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Posted (edited)

I spent 700+hrs in Early access like many here and I understand why people are frustrated with the Legacy thing. From my standpoint the way content was released didnt accurately reflect what would happen for new players anyway, i am not sure how many players with over 400hrs even didnt spend days of doing nothing but Insane survival waiting for Nightmare to come out? The when NM did release it felt very easy coming from insane already 73 for many some almost 80 all with the maximum loot available from Insane. and with the time from NM release until now I am sure many people repeated that experience to get ready for Massacre.I was not sure how I wanted to handle launch I wanted to continue on and go to Massacre, but I also wanted to see how progressing from start to finish felt in a more natural way. I was very much conflicted but I had planned to spend some time in the new modes like pure Strategy and challenges before going to Massacre I felt that I could just head to Massacre when I wished there wasnt a rush to get to end game for me. Some of the items from Early access in the current game have been rebalanced for Play also other items have had changes which could make Early Access gear rather broken in that mode. I am not sure what the community would of felt worse with only having heroes with no items/gold or moving Early Access into legacy. Both to me seem to have potential issues, Legacy is supposed to at some point contain modding and so if you want a legitimate playthrough you wont feel you got that there, if you got only your heroes but nothing else there is still the feeling of what did I farm for? sure it makes easier difficulties rather moot not requiring items but still doesnt feel good. what if they didnt keep the heroes or items in anyway at all then what, is that better or worse than having them in Legacy i am not that sure. i dont know what would be the fairest resolution to this where everyone can agree, but perhaps just having some collectable item in game honouring the fact we supported them through Early Access with the higher pricepoint could help take the sting out of it a little.

Edited by dizzydiana
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12 minutes ago, dizzydiana said:

i dont know what would be the fairest resolution to this where everyone can agree, but perhaps just having some collectable item in game honouring the fact we supported them through Early Access with the higher pricepoint could help take the sting out of it a little.

Yeah. Like always, sometimes just a little bit of recognition can go a long way.

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, ThingDoer said:

The community has gotten into a lot of semantics over the word "wipe" in the last day, we should probably find a better word to use.  But regardless, you're correct, no progress was "lost." 

I totally agree with your points and not just the one quoted. But people should really stop telling people that a wipe actually happened. Instead, tell them that the progress we worked hard will be relegated to some other server that won't be able to(highest probability) interact with new players. Also, I did suggest the same thing, get a few of our characters, even just the LEVEL would be enough since that took the most time in grinding and like what you've said, NM gears will be replaced by Massacre gears anyways.

 

So far the "best" compensation that they could do is migrate even just 2 characters from Legacy to Play, heck, even make it an option because there are people that really wanted to start from scratch.

 

I agree it's a d*ck move, I agree that there was an immense gap in communication. What I don't agree with was the almost(?) 12 hours of ranting in Discord with the CGs being obligated to answer issues that they simply do not have an answer to. Either they don't have an answer or CAN'T answer at the moment. They also have their obligation with their company and not simply to please EA people.

Also, there's 100% probability that, if in a parallel universe, Legacy didn't exist, people would just complain in 1-2days time that Massacre's too easy, nothing to do, give us more updates, blah blah blah, where's the other things that was promised, this game is a waste of time nothing to do, increase level cap. AND SO ON. Well, they instead gave us a new server to play fresh at.

 

You spent 800hours grinding in Legacy? Bored and got nothing to do? Here's a new server, grind it over again. That could work for others, and most probably not for those that complained.


TL:DR shit happened. Give negative reviews, rant, complain. But at the end of the day, we'd prolly just have to suck it up, and play PLAY. Or you know, you can just quit and leave the game altogether. Don't think anyone's stopping anyone from quitting.

 

EDIT: Dunno if anyone in the Discord got banned, but damn, they CGs really held their humanity and tackled that hellhole well, by not bursting and just banning everyone.

Edited by drchrisms

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Added a suggestion that I think is doable but would need a bit of coding? They could probably just get the EXP table that they surely have. Put an aggregated amount of EXP on the item that will grant the user the said EXP to push them to Level 90.

Or just send a code that if redeemed, would grant you the EXP you needed to poof to 90.

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