"Legancy" mode

So basically we were lied to when we were told that we could keep all of our pre-release progress once the game went live.

Oh we get to keep it, but it is relegated to essentially a "Cheater's mode" which we will be unable to use with any new players.

Got it.

Thank you Chromatic for wasting literally hundreds of hours of my life.

I have been a fan of the Dungeon Defenders franchise since the launch day of DD1 and over the years have purchased every expansion and character available and put thousands of hours into both DD1 & DD2 however based upon how you have chosen to handle this, I will NOT be playing DDA  any longer, nor will I be recommending this game to my friends and family.

Well, new players can create legacy character, not? 

Btw no offense but I find it hilarious when ppl say "not recommending this game to my friends and family". It's like - heyy mooom could I recommend you one interesting tower defense game? It is very fun and it has 80% rating on steam, lets hop on mooom.

These jokes of "developers" couldn't figure out that all they needed to do was recreate new profiles of EA supports with the same characters with the same name and same amout of EXP, and just give them a boat load of gold and similar equipment?  Like, come on.  They didn't need to virtually wipe our accounts.  This is such crap.  I will never support DD or CG ever again.

First off -- there wasn't a real wipe.   All the EA content can be accessed and played in Legacy. That's a positive 

Second, CG graciously lowered the price to make it more accessible to more people --- MORE GAME for LESS!  Another positive. 

 

Third -- the game is great!  CG really knocked it out of the park.   It runs well, bugs are not game breaking.   Anyone that thinks the game should cost more or should be able to use EA content in 1.0 content don't understand the basics of gaming.    Please ignore these people, CG. 

10 minutes ago, pigboy said:

Anyone that thinks the game should cost more or should be able to use EA content in 1.0 content don't understand the basics of gaming.    Please ignore these people, CG. 

The thing is we got word from CG themselves there wouldn't be a wipe. This is effectively a wipe. I'm personally ok with it but I see why people are pissed off.

TBH 2 game modes is just going to spread the community thin. I think that the "Mod Supported" mode should just allow you to copy your "Normal" mode characters over if you wished so you could play around with mods.

I also would have spent more time trying to figure out a way to convert the old EA player profiles into the newer profiles and not have this mess.

Edited May 28, 2020 by Vindicit

Quote

We heard multiple people mention they were frustrated with our lack of transparency, so we thought we would walk you through our latest challenges and choices so you can better understand how we got to where we are with the game.

...

We get that this has caused frustration, and it’s not our favorite result, but it’s the best we were able to produce given the options we had. This would have been outlined, but we believed we were providing what players wanted, as outlined above, and it seems with some we missed the mark a little.

Quotes from this thread

Explaining your process after the launch is exactly the same problem that's been going on since the beginning.  I can't speak for everyone, but most players would have been fine with the decision if it had been mentioned earlier.  Instead, the last dev post before launch was May 10.  That's 2 and a half weeks without hearing ANYTHING from CG.

Are you scared of what the community will say if you bring up challenges you are facing?  Everyone I've seen in the DD community is incredibly understanding, especially given current circumstances.  If you say you need to delay the game, the vast majority of users will understand and support it.  If you say there's a challenge that might make it so EA progress is split from the main version, some users will get mad, but most will understand.

Do you just hate forums?  I don't frequent any other "community" system, so maybe this was all discussed in the Discord or somewhere on social media.  If that's the case, then just turn the forums off.  Or don't have a "News" section that insinuates this is a place to get up-to-date information.

Let me be clear, I'm not upset about the legacy mode stuff.  I'm quite content to play all the content again with fresh characters.  I'm just disappointed that there's still this communication issue.  It makes it seem like you don't care about your biggest fans, who've taken this journey with you since Kickstarter.

4 hours ago, pigboy said:

First off -- there wasn't a real wipe.   All the EA content can be accessed and played in Legacy. That's a positive 

Second, CG graciously lowered the price to make it more accessible to more people --- MORE GAME for LESS!  Another positive. 

 

Third -- the game is great!  CG really knocked it out of the park.   It runs well, bugs are not game breaking.   Anyone that thinks the game should cost more or should be able to use EA content in 1.0 content don't understand the basics of gaming.    Please ignore these people, CG. 

1) Yes, there was a wipe.  All EA players have been separated from normal game play.  That is the very definition of a wipe.  We will not get those hours back in normal mode.

2) They lowered the price because the EA supporters said it felt high for the content.  They haven't actually provided any new content beyond what EA supporters have known about and knowingly paid for.

3) The game sucks.  DD1 wasn't great, DD:E wasn't great, and this third attempt isn't going to ever be great.  Also, to say there isn't game breaking bugs either means (1) you haven't found them / encountered the hackers yet, or (2) all the hard work the EA supporters did and their feed back went to make it a success.  The fact you speak with authority in game dev, yet assume you know more than all the EA supporters is laughable.  If you are so wise to the ways of game dev, you should easily see a way to query the EA profile data and come up with some reasonable solution to the issue.  EA supporters couldn't care less about the gear, it's all that EXP and hours grinded for nothing but being relegated to a different "Legacy" server.  All they needed to do is pull names, hero types, and EXP, then add up the value of inventory and BAM, EA profiles are back in Normal mode.

Bottom line, this situation is crap and CG hasn't really done anything to calm the nerves of EA supporters.

41 minutes ago, papafhill said:

Bottom line, this situation is crap and CG hasn't really done anything to calm the nerves of EA supporters.

Seriously starting to wonder if maybe they just use virtual assistants on hire for community managers. Launch day and you can't even address these issues or at least come up with a statement? No split screen on day 1? You've advertised the split-screen, even made it a promise...

Very disappointing, I may have to abandon ship and seek a refund, I refuse to wait on the next excuse. I encourage others to express yourselves in the reviews, I'm imploring anybody with connections to a larger voice on the internet to make these issues known. Complete bullshit and a DISGRACE to companies out there who successfully and TACTFULLY run an EA to a game. This whole experience has been sour and makes me hesitant to support companies.. guess I should do some background research next time.

 

Was there an explanation for why they didn't transfer early access saves to "play" instead of "legacy"?  I'm assuming from DD1 that the majority of the community will be focused on "play".

You can still play your characters, you can still play with the people you could with before, you can play with new friends

 

Thats by definition not a wipe, just because you dont get why this transfer was needed (and it was needed) doesnt mean they lied to you. They said they wouldnt wipe the progress and they didnt, end of discussion!

50 minutes ago, loppol11 said:

Was there an explanation for why they didn't transfer early access saves to "play" instead of "legacy"?  I'm assuming from DD1 that the majority of the community will be focused on "play".

The reason given was "There was a lot of problems", so nothing really.

14 minutes ago, Gromi Momi said:

 

You can still play your characters, you can still play with the people you could with before, you can play with new friends

 

Thats by definition not a wipe, just because you dont get why this transfer was needed (and it was needed) doesnt mean they lied to you. They said they wouldnt wipe the progress and they didnt, end of discussion!

Oh sweet summer child, have you ever played DD1 ? barely anyone played in "legacy" back then, and barely anyone will right now. 

Legacy exists only to enable sheep like you to say that it's not a wipe. While it's technically not a wipe because "YoU cAN pLaY wITh YoUr OlD STufF", it forces you to start over if you want to play with the main population, which is basically a wipe. 

And you know what they say, If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck, just like this, but for a wipe.

Edited May 29, 2020 by chpoit

13 minutes ago, Gromi Momi said:

You can still play your characters, you can still play with the people you could with before, you can play with new friends

 

Thats by definition not a wipe, just because you dont get why this transfer was needed (and it was needed) doesnt mean they lied to you. They said they wouldnt wipe the progress and they didnt, end of discussion!

It's a white lie, the CMs are not transparent and information is lacking.. to drop the price in half (moreso with early donaters and higher pledge amounts) and not address or shed some light on direction of the game.. it's absolutely insulting.

27 minutes ago, chpoit said:

The reason given was "There was a lot of problems", so nothing really.

I gave it another read and it seems so completely contradictory.  "We were having trouble making new profiles alongside the early access profiles, so we had to isolate them from the new profiles".  Okay...  "Then we added the functionality to make new legacy profiles".  Then what problems were you facing, exactly?

It seems like "play" is completely redundant - launching with just "legacy" would have allowed the game to have one mode for both new and early access players.

I feel like there's either something I'm missing, or Chromatic is hugely incompetent.  And I'll be the first to admit it's usually the former, but on an issue that's gonna cost me so many hours of play time, I'd at least like to know what thing it is that I'm missing.

i specifically farmed 71 BILLION gold for launch and even fully upgraded a giraffe which costs around 20 billion, BECAUSE WE WERE TOLD THERE WAS NO WIPE FOR LAUNCH.  instead of playing over 700 hours i would've OBVIOUSLY played 50 hours max and waited for launch to farm all that out.  i absolutely cannot believe this has been done to us.  I'm going to play MAYBE 20 more hours with a friend of mine and ONLY because i convinced him to buy the game and spend his money before the launch happened.  after that im done.  frankly if i didnt feel bad for having my friend spend money already i would never log in again.  launch day is already over and i DID NOT LOG IN. 

You wanna say you cant transfer our save files?  seriously??????  the best you can offer is an unranked hacker server where we cant play with the rest of the community?  give me a break.  at a BARE minimum you could've oh i dunno transferred all our saved GOLD???  maybe oh i dunno max level heros?  ANYTHING woulda been better than literally nothing.  Frankly you claim new players can play on the legacy server, then WHY cant that just be the one server?!?!?!  I'm out of my mind upset and if someone had told me a week ago this was gonna happen, Mary, Philip, you both know i woulda stood behind you and said no way they would do something like that to us.  they not only read everything but Philip already told us it wasnt gonna happen.  You know full well that i trusted you.  I feel seriously betrayed.  I realize im just one person and maybe that makes me insignificant now, but i thought of you as friends and felt like you deserved to know just how this has made me feel. @[CG] Philip @[CG] Mary

I've also put in 170 hours in EA because CG said we can keep our progress on release. Not knowing what was coming I put in even more hours the last 3 days.  I understand that there might be technical difficulties and everything with migrating EA profiles to the release version. I work in IT as well and it's a common thing that problems come up where you dont expect them and you need to find solutions / workarounds that are sometimes not pretty. What I don't understand is that they force us to start over completely. CG could have at least keep our EXP even with new profiles. I am certain that there would have been ways to do it.

I don't mind the price cut and the sale. I was just excited to get in early to help get a game as good as DD1 off the ground but the "wipe" does it for me.

Keep your legacy mode, I don't think I'll pick up the game again, not willing to grind again even if someone would boost me. Not mainly because of the time that I would put in again but because it feels like betrayal from CG. 

8 hours ago, loppol11 said:

I feel like there's either something I'm missing, or Chromatic is hugely incompetent.

My guess is it's the new way they do save files.  During EA, save data was all local with some limited server checking.  They mentioned a couple times that launch version would have some different kind of saving that would be less prone to hacking.

 

On 5/28/2020 at 10:03 AM, Dungeonstone said:

So basically we were lied to when we were told that we could keep all of our pre-release progress once the game went live.

Oh we get to keep it, but it is relegated to essentially a "Cheater's mode" which we will be unable to use with any new players.

Got it.

Thank you Chromatic for wasting literally hundreds of hours of my life.

I have been a fan of the Dungeon Defenders franchise since the launch day of DD1 and over the years have purchased every expansion and character available and put thousands of hours into both DD1 & DD2 however based upon how you have chosen to handle this, I will NOT be playing DDA  any longer, nor will I be recommending this game to my friends and family.

Your data is preserved in another save mode (i.e. legacy). This is not a wipe. A wipe is akin to a factory reset on your device where all your settings, data, etc. are irrecoverable. A wipe is what savvy tech users do to their hard drives and ROM devices to ensure that no one steals their identity. A wipe means NONE of your data can be accessed or recovered, ever again. You were not lied to in that you get to "keep" all your pre-release data. Most EULAs expressly state that terms and conditions, especially the company's control of your data, can be augmented at any time. If you don't believe me, school up on how Facebook and Google manipulate their data for their "free" services.

You labeled it a "Cheater's mode", not they. You should always know whenever playing Early Access or Beta, there's a chance you don't get what's promised, stated, guaranteed, etc. You are naive to think otherwise. If you don't believe me, try buying a new/used car, a house, a timeshare, and anything that's negotiable. Hell, lending money to friends/relatives results in hard feelings most times even if promises are made. Look at what happened with Savage Lands, the Firely MMORPG, and the Fyre Festival.

Chromatic did not waste hundreds of hours of your life, nor did Trendy or any other service. You have a choice with all the time you spend on anything. If you bow out of this, farewell and good wishes; but don't blame others for your choices or the consequences of them. For example, I could tell you to jump off a bridge or heed this post, but you know not who I am, so why would you?

In the end, it's all your choice and your control of your reactions. You will either learn from your decision to play this or other games, or continue blaming others/the world/your parents for what happens to you.

Welcome to growing up :)

8 hours ago, rizenxin said:

 

Your data is preserved in another save mode (i.e. legacy). This is not a wipe. A wipe is akin to a factory reset on your device where all your settings, data, etc. are irrecoverable. A wipe is what savvy tech users do to their hard drives and ROM devices to ensure that no one steals their identity. A wipe means NONE of your data can be accessed or recovered, ever again. You were not lied to in that you get to "keep" all your pre-release data. Most EULAs expressly state that terms and conditions, especially the company's control of your data, can be augmented at any time. If you don't believe me, school up on how Facebook and Google manipulate their data for their "free" services.

You labeled it a "Cheater's mode", not they. You should always know whenever playing Early Access or Beta, there's a chance you don't get what's promised, stated, guaranteed, etc. You are naive to think otherwise. If you don't believe me, try buying a new/used car, a house, a timeshare, and anything that's negotiable. Hell, lending money to friends/relatives results in hard feelings most times even if promises are made. Look at what happened with Savage Lands, the Firely MMORPG, and the Fyre Festival.

Chromatic did not waste hundreds of hours of your life, nor did Trendy or any other service. You have a choice with all the time you spend on anything. If you bow out of this, farewell and good wishes; but don't blame others for your choices or the consequences of them. For example, I could tell you to jump off a bridge or heed this post, but you know not who I am, so why would you?

In the end, it's all your choice and your control of your reactions. You will either learn from your decision to play this or other games, or continue blaming others/the world/your parents for what happens to you.

Welcome to growing up :)

"It'S NoT a WiPE".

If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck.

 

9 hours ago, rizenxin said:

 

Your data is preserved in another save mode (i.e. legacy). This is not a wipe. A wipe is akin to a factory reset on your device where all your settings, data, etc. are irrecoverable. A wipe is what savvy tech users do to their hard drives and ROM devices to ensure that no one steals their identity. A wipe means NONE of your data can be accessed or recovered, ever again. You were not lied to in that you get to "keep" all your pre-release data. Most EULAs expressly state that terms and conditions, especially the company's control of your data, can be augmented at any time. If you don't believe me, school up on how Facebook and Google manipulate their data for their "free" services.

You labeled it a "Cheater's mode", not they. You should always know whenever playing Early Access or Beta, there's a chance you don't get what's promised, stated, guaranteed, etc. You are naive to think otherwise. If you don't believe me, try buying a new/used car, a house, a timeshare, and anything that's negotiable. Hell, lending money to friends/relatives results in hard feelings most times even if promises are made. Look at what happened with Savage Lands, the Firely MMORPG, and the Fyre Festival.

Chromatic did not waste hundreds of hours of your life, nor did Trendy or any other service. You have a choice with all the time you spend on anything. If you bow out of this, farewell and good wishes; but don't blame others for your choices or the consequences of them. For example, I could tell you to jump off a bridge or heed this post, but you know not who I am, so why would you?

In the end, it's all your choice and your control of your reactions. You will either learn from your decision to play this or other games, or continue blaming others/the world/your parents for what happens to you.

Welcome to growing up :)

Lol what a load of BS - By your reasoning then, no person or company should ever be held accountable to their words because "iT waS yoUr chOice".  
Your examples of Fyre/cars/timeshares is also laughable.  Lawsuits are won everyday against those examples you listed; which would not be true if companies were never held liable/accountable.

 Accountability is part of growing up - welcome to growing up :) 

Edited May 30, 2020 by braveturtle

@chpoit If someone pays million to a company to construct custom Lamborghini and after few months they returning him fiat Tico,  believe me the constructors would need to pay them back everything they get paid after court hearing. This is why companies that creates applications show their customer program iterations to let him see, if everything going way they want and to catch misunderstanding between them.

@braveturtle Anyway supporting is not equal to buying. As someone who bought the product on steam (which has different description than content is reality) you can always get refund, As kickstarter backer you are always at risk that project will never be alive or wont match what it described it to be.