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Soup-

3 Concerns, or bugs?

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Hello.

I have 3 concerns I feel should be addressed.

  • Mana disappearing.
  • Items disappearing.
  • Ogre throws snot ball at random towers across the map.

Why is mana crystals on the ground disappearing?

- We have little enough mana as is, making it go poof doesn't help.

- Is this intended or a bug?

 

Why are items on the ground disappearing? 

- Well, just why, theres not even that many, still they go away.

- I have not counted, but I would guess the cap is 50 or so.

- How does the game determine what items are deleted?

- Is this a bug or a feature?

 

Why does ogre decide to throw his snot at my random barricade across the whole map?

- Is this a bug or intended?

- If it is intended, why?

- Randomizing what enemies attack, does not mix well with "creative tower placements".

 

:gobuthonk:

 

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These issues concern me as well. Mana and Items disappearing were in DD1 as well but were never fun to begin with. I dont know why these mechanics were put in DDA they are very frustrating. I dont want to have to worry about things disappearing while I'm playing the game on the other side of the map. You cant be everywhere at once. You cant be expected to scour the entire map after every wave just to make sure you pick up everything that needs to be picked up.

Edited by Vindicit
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Mana Crystals dissapearing isn't important to me, im always out there killing the mobs on a DPS char so i pick it all up straight away anyway.

Items disspearing is something i have noticed as well, it is a concern  because late game in waves 20+ on insane survival you get a lot of legendaries and currently i like to pick them all up and sort through them to find the best (the green arrow means nothing. those items are almost never actually better) so im worried some good legendary equipment could get deleted? :S

Lastly the ogre snot is annoying the crap out of me, it has caused me to LOSE too many times, because it ignores barricades i place, it targets my towers that i have set up with full power and little health, wipes them out and i have to tank a lane without defences, its very annoying and should not be a thing, it should target the PLAYER anywhere on the map, that would be acceptable, or it should target barricades, not your strategically placed towers behind a defensive barricade so that enemies CANNOT HIT THEM.......

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I will try to answer as best I can.

Mana disappearing during waves happened in Dd1, but the amount still left was always enough to still allow you to upgrade defences. Since mana was for more than just upgrading defences way more mana would drop than would of otherwise so you never felt short.. Mana at best should disappear after a wave not during. It should not be a necessity to be everywhere at once just to collect mana. Mana is not useful outwith the current map so it feels strange to restrict it and have it disappear. The only reason for this would be that having millions of individual mana crystals might slow down the game to a crawl. Perhaps a better solution would be to merge mana at the end of waves into one crystal with a higher value?

items disappearing also happend in DD1, but got changed more recently. They now persist at least until the end of the wave making it easier to pick up between waves rather than madly dashing around during the wave picking everything up. This at least should happen in DDA.

Ogres have aggro built in they will always aim for whatever is hitting them at that time. This was a change made to avoid Ogres Aiming at the Core and still keep some level of difficulty. To stop ogres aiming at your towers you could kite the ogre away from the towers towards the hero by attacking them with your hero. I know an Ogre will stop to attack my hero if I attack it, so I presume Kiting is still possible in DDA. Since I use no aggro builds i havent really had a need to kite them so far.

Edited by dizzydiana
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Items and mana are supposed to disappear this is intended as it forces you to leave safety to roam out to get them.  Otherwise noone would ever come out from behind their towers.

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14 minutes ago, fluffycalico said:

Items and mana are supposed to disappear this is intended as it forces you to leave safety to roam out to get them.  Otherwise noone would ever come out from behind their towers.

Oh, so you guys are balancing loot in having to pick it up in X seconds?

Nice! 

Keep it up, will be good!

^_^

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1 hour ago, fluffycalico said:

Items and mana are supposed to disappear this is intended as it forces you to leave safety to roam out to get them.  Otherwise noone would ever come out from behind their towers.

No that was the point of the Dark Elves and spiders in DD1.  Having your loot disappear just because you waited too long is garbage design. You're not supposed to pick up loot during the wave anyway, you're supposed to be killing stuff and defending the crystal.

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3 minutes ago, Vindicit said:

No that was the point of the Dark Elves and spiders in DD1.  Having your loot disappear just because you waited too long is garbage design. You're not supposed to pick up loot during the wave anyway, you're supposed to be killing stuff and defending the crystal.

Since some may not be aware of how spiders spawned and worked in dd1  i will add this here. Spiders would spawn behind the crystal and head straight for your hero as well as other fixed points in the map. Djinns despawning defences also made you stay on your toes. Sharkens would move walls and defences and were in some ways also anti-afk enemy. DD1 changed loot to remain on the floor during waves because the community asked for it It ws dififcult with Nightmare enemies to run around the map picking up items during waves especially in Hardcore. For those who dont what hardcore was - If you die you are gone for the rest of the wave (if your not in the wave how can you pick up the items during the wave xd).

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Only thing remaining at the end of a wave is gonna be the best loot that dropped. This way you don t actually have to check every trash item, just let it pile up and check end of wave. 

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3 minutes ago, Zombiewookie said:

Only thing remaining at the end of a wave is gonna be the best loot that dropped. This way you don t actually have to check every trash item, just let it pile up and check end of wave. 

I think how we react to that will be how it works upon release once loot has a gold value. If loot disappears and we dont get the currency value then I would still have an issue. If it sells itself upon deletion then I will be happy enough. The lower tiered loot might not be worth much, but it still adds up in the end.

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12 minutes ago, dizzydiana said:

I think how we react to that will be how it works upon release once loot has a gold value. If loot disappears and we dont get the currency value then I would still have an issue. If it sells itself upon deletion then I will be happy enough. The lower tiered loot might not be worth much, but it still adds up in the end.

Venture out and loot it don't complain when its gone

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4 minutes ago, fluffycalico said:

Venture out and loot it don't complain when its gone

Just out of curiousity when they introduced loot NOT disappearing in DD1 did you write a post complaining about it? I never noticed any in either Steam or here. I respect your opinion even though it seems you do not respect mine. You like going around picking up every item while fighting off spiders,ogres,goblin copters etc rather than actually fighting the enemies. I would rather just kill the enemies. each to their own has always been my motto. The "git gud" philosophy doesnt really help anyone in my opinion it only serves to belittle others because one person seems to think they are better than another. Instead of offering solutions to pick up the loot during waves you choose to attack my opinion. If you really feel it is viable you should be able to defend your position with examples. It would serve you better and avoid conflict.

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Just so everyone is clear, because it seems like people don't get this.

Loot despawns from worst to best. So the worst piece of loot on the map despawns when something new drops.

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1 minute ago, dizzydiana said:

Just out of curiousity when they introduced loot NOT disappearing in DD1 did you write a post complaining about it? I never noticed any in either Steam or here. I respect your opinion even though it seems you do not respect mine. You like going around picking up every item while fighting off spiders,ogres,goblin copters etc rather than actually fighting the enemies. I would rather just kill the enemies. each to their own has always been my motto. The "git gud" philosophy doesnt really help anyone in my opinion it only serves to belittle others because one person seems to think they are better than another. Instead of offering solutions to pick up the loot during waves you choose to attack my opinion. If you really feel it is viable you should be able to defend your position with examples. It would serve you better and avoid conflict.

No one said anything about needing to get good.   And as I already stated forcing people to venture out into danger is an important part of the game and a major part of what made it fun.  It also helped keep down the afking.

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5 minutes ago, tehslippery said:

Just so everyone is clear, because it seems like people don't get this.

Loot despawns from worst to best. So the worst piece of loot on the map despawns when something new drops.

What is the worst loot?

I get green arrow loot, but they are worse for me than what I already got.

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my response was worded as such due  the way you phrase things and how abrasive it comes across. "go out or lose it" could of been phrased "I understand you dont like it, but I feel it adds to the game because it encourages engagement". or such like "git gud" philosophy isnt just saying "get good" It is saying  to do something in a manner which can seem disrespectful to the reader. All it takes is thinking about what you write and how it sounds to others. I just want you to think about what you say and how it affects others. You do not know who your reader is, how old are they, etc. You have to account that although you think you are only making a valid point others may see it differently.

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2 minutes ago, Soup- said:

What is the worst loot?

I get green arrow loot, but they are worse for me than what I already got.

Lowest item level.

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To clarify things further lower level will noticably disappear if you leave things on the ground and never pick them up. SInce we only have 4 maps and common is lowest in item power at the moment at the end of a full survival run if you never pick up items all the common will of more or less disappeared but legendaries will be there. I have not as yet noticed any legendaries sporadically disappear, but then i have not  actively counted how many items of what level actually spawn. From myself and many others it has been observed that items disappear in order from lowest to highest present at any one time on the map. I am not sure if the developers have actually confirmed that it is indeed the case, but it being able to be replicated multiple times I would feel safe to ensure that is what happens.

 

Edited by dizzydiana
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Items are disappearing and I dont want them to.

Why should the game decide what item I dont need?

In dd1 you had the floor full of items, now we got 1/8th of the floor with items, and they are going poof.

If you cant let all the items that drop stay, why even let them drop?

Whats the point of letting an item drop if you are just going to make it go away anyway?

 

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5 minutes ago, Soup- said:

Items are disappearing and I dont want them to.

Why should the game decide what item I dont need?

In dd1 you had the floor full of items, now we got 1/8th of the floor with items, and they are going poof.

If you cant let all the items that drop stay, why even let them drop?

Whats the point of letting an item drop if you are just going to make it go away anyway?

 

You have already had this question answered multiple times.  Why ask the question over and over if you are not going to listen to the answers.   And no early DD1 didn't not leave them all.   This early DDA very closely resembles early DD1 as it should

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4 minutes ago, Soup- said:

Items are disappearing and I dont want them to.

Why should the game decide what item I dont need?

In dd1 you had the floor full of items, now we got 1/8th of the floor with items, and they are going poof.

If you cant let all the items that drop stay, why even let them drop?

Whats the point of letting an item drop if you are just going to make it go away anyway?

 

I understand why you feel this way, to some respect I am on the same page as yourself. What differs for me I suppose isd thinking if there might be some sort of Auto Collect system in place with DDA either on release or later added to the game. Auto collect in my opinion solves the issue from both sides, limiting items on the floor and allowing players who wish to have every single piece of loot do so. I am not sure if you played DD2 or not and are used to the Auto Collect system there and how it functions - you set filters for what loot you want to go into your inventory - weapons, armour,pets etc and can also add in extra modifiers like what rarity. Any that remained on the ground was auto sold once you left the match. 

It is a system I would like to see in Place for DDA, although there are valid arguments against such a system. I see it as an easy fix but others may feel by removing the ability to miss an item you want as making the game too easy, or easier to AFK. I dont care as much if low items get sold and depspawn during waves as I would if items just disappeared and I got nothing from it.

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I iddn't read the entire thread but

" Items disappearing. "

There is a limit on the number of items that can be on the map and this is intended for performance reasons. I believe, but don't quote me, that it is supposed to delete the items with the lowest item power first.

And most people don't want the trash tier drops except at the very beginning of the game. When there is currency/item upgrading/trading, this will be a bit more signficant but for the beta, there's really no reason to keep these items.

TL;DR it isn't about screwing you or simply deciding "YOU DONT NEED THESE THINGS MUAHAHAHA" the floor item limit is there to keep your FPS from tanking too low and to limit visual clutter.

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18 minutes ago, fluffycalico said:

You have already had this question answered multiple times.  Why ask the question over and over if you are not going to listen to the answers.   And no early DD1 didn't not leave them all.   This early DDA very closely resembles early DD1 as it should

I am not sure you understand the difference with rhetorical questions or not. But most of his questions were rhetorical. the way I see things is if a mechanic in a game was changed, why was it changed. I do not need to like the new mechanic, but I am sure it was done for a reason. there must of been enough players asking for this change or I highly doubt the CDT would of implemented it. If we were to truly to go back to the start of DD1 we should be seeing 10k mobs in solo play in survival by the 10th wave in Deeper well on Easy, where Strength Drain Auras had no effect on Elemental resistances neither did darkness traps. Godly gear would at best roll with +30 stats. With no speed boosting pets and where giraffes were the only decent builder pet. If you would like to remind yourself what Early DD1 was like I suggest you play it on PS3 which is still available to buy and never got any of the updates othert than the inclusion of shard maps and instead of Nightmare it got Insane+.

Edited by dizzydiana
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