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@Exglint when you put it like that crit builds do seem so long ago jeez! I’m glad they went though.

@ArchaicLotus I too would love to see your setup for them bees and boost. I haven’t attempted crit since before it was changed.

People on non PC - do you have bee bugs too? (Ignoring skeletons, geodes, and dreadbones)

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Why would you say that you are not going to insult when you start a post with "Lord" and end it with "Master." This does not surprise me.

You say you have posted designs in other threads. Link them. If I read them I do not remember.

It sucks, for me anyway, to come back to a game that I've greatly appreciated only to experience every map build that I jump in to the same. 8 out of ten when the reality is around 36 out of 40. Either way, if they are having fun it's their deal. Even if they are not... My agitation with this stems from a lack of creativity. I love creativity. My attitude is not with the players. If I look at all of your builds and copy them because they work then where is the experimentation. The truth of all of this is what Player and Myth are referencing about players; if they are having fun I should let them be. So I am. I used to love seeing the diverse builds. I miss the creativity.

As it is. This post had nothing to do with the META originally. A META reads most effective tactics available. What is most effective to one is not always most effective for another. So I will toss this acronym in the paradigm category. 

This post was going to be pictures of different maps and different builds I use as well as placement. It was diverted; not by me. I think it pissed people off because of how sexy the damage is. Notice how Exglint states that he wished somebody had a build powerful enough...when I posted pictures of a very sexy Sky Guard and some incredibly joyful hornets.

Dryad in corrupt produces insane damage output. Exglint I do not know what patch you are desiring. If Chromatic does patch it should be aimed towards the functionality of maps. That ship at see, Lost Temple, Forest Biome; every map post initial release seems to have an issue with Earth Toss and other mods. Enemies appear on the mini-map travelling far outside of the maps borders while the enemy count remains fixed for about 40 seconds and then drastically reduces after information is synched. No increases or decreases in towers. No adding or taking away heroes. Quality of game functinality should be first on Chromatic's list.

Edited by ArchaicLotus

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14 minutes ago, ArchaicLotus said:

Why would you say that you are not going to insult when you start a post with "Lord" and end it with "Master." This does not surprise me.

You say you have posted designs in other threads. Link them. If I read them I do not remember.

 

Forgetful Lotus, remember this?  Me and you had a conversation a week ago about how the META build doesn't work for everything.  In my original post, I had stated examples of trouble lanes for the META build.  

BTW, Most Effective Tactics Available I believe is an objective statement, not subjective.  

I also like this post, because you refer to your Tiger Woods achievements.

Sir Lotus,

I feel you do understand what I'm saying because I did make the point that there are modifiers and unit comps that can put a hurting on that META build, and you made the point that people re-roll.  This is actually my point.  If you did not understand that, my apologies.  My point is that there are modifiers and unit comps that give this META build trouble.  

  On 11/19/2019 at 11:27 AM, ArchaicLotus said:

 

Many high level Onslaught climbers have posted videos of their 300 + ascent; all META. Many people re-roll until they get the rulesets they desire. Do you understand why over-clocking defense rate works on frosties? Research it. I say research it because I have mentioned over and over again that this build, which all high Onslaught climbers use, is effective against all rulesets. Again, a lot of people re-roll to until they get the rulesets they desire; few don't. But me....and yes, you drew it out of me (#1 Support Gunner CoD3 Treyarch, 5 x Tiger Woods world record holder, #1 world ranked Alienation 2017-2018 season, Magic the Gathering record 310 wins 18 losses, rank seven in the world). Dryad build. You don't listen.

 

I do not use the META you speak of.  I have access to all of the things that you have mentioned, but optimize them for the mutators.  You can infer from this, that I am not re-rolling maps with mutators I do not like, because I can adjust the defenses for what I feel will work.  If you cannot infer this from my statement, I will state it clearly.  

I do not use the Meta you speak of as a cookie cutter build for every lane, but utilize all defenses necessary for the map that is put before me.

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Broken, the META maybe is not for you. When I say some people re-roll it's because they do not like some lanes, which does support your narrative. The way Trendmatic changed things, people don't have to like the lanes so they reroll. Certain people using the META reroll. Others using the META do not. Two different, old schoolers that no longer play, used the META and it smothered lanes from headstrong frosties to siege rollers. They quit because they felt like they learned the cheat code for a no longer challenging game. These two awesome people, bad asses, quit. That bothered me. If everybody uses this META then they may just quit as well. I don't want that to happen.

This META, with the right mods/shard combo beats every lane; no exceptions. Some re-roll I suppose because of the wrong shard/mod combo on the tough lanes. Others do not because they have the Skeleton Key setup.

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What floor does the Skeleton Key work up to?

I don't believe someone has developed it for floor 959 - 999.  That's what i'm actually interested in, and I want to get there as fast as possible.  There is where you can really develop those interesting strategies, on floors that no one has conquered.  

I'm not sure how much we are really disagreeing, but I get put off sometimes with the way you address people I guess, and i've probably been a bit dickish in my responses to you. 

I want to get to the top as fast as possible, 700+, or 950+, to a point where what i'm doing isn't working, so I can figure out what's next.

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One player is 500+ and the other is 700+. They quit in the midst of their builds crushing. Use Juicebags slow build and toss in a weapons manufacturer. It was something to that effect. (if you are desiring a fast climb). Zombie is 900+. He probably has videos breaking down mods and shards with his builds.

Edited by ArchaicLotus

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1 hour ago, ArchaicLotus said:

Exglint I do not know what patch you are desiring. If Chromatic does patch it should be aimed towards the functionality of maps. That ship at see, Lost Temple, Forest Biome; every map post initial release seems to have an issue with Earth Toss and other mods. Enemies appear on the mini-map travelling far outside of the maps borders while the enemy count remains fixed for about 40 seconds and then drastically reduces after information is synched. No increases or decreases in towers. No adding or taking away heroes. Quality of game functinality should be first on Chromatic's list.

I would not turn down a patch for stability but I was just going with the odds that a numbers change for defenses and heroes would be quicker to do than a stability patch. Not that it would change how most players play the game but it would give some of us something new to do and pass along different things to do.

2 hours ago, Little Magic Hat said:

when you put it like that crit builds do seem so long ago jeez! I’m glad they went though.

ikr its been so long since crit was a thing. Idk about glad but it was a nice change to go from crit to def pwr, though part of me doesnt like this anti stacking so I kind of miss the crit days.

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The problem is that Trendmatic, when it comes to DD2, has only been focused on adding and taking things away; every since the Lost Temple was released. They need a die-hard quality attempt at smoothing out the game. But you are right; they do need to add. Shortly after the Ancient Power system was introduced I made the recommendation that Trendmatic makes a raid system where certain map/loot unlocks are available every 25 to 50 resets. I am not ever going to AP reset but I am offended at the lack of reward and adventure involved with the process. Look at how many people have reset 50+ times. Now look at how many of those people are gone.

The things that could have been done with DD2. Trendmatic should have kickstarted DD2 add-ons. I would have given them 50 to 200 easy. Probably even more. 

Edited by ArchaicLotus

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16 minutes ago, ArchaicLotus said:

Look at how many people have reset 50+ times. Now look at how many of those people are gone.

I am 3 prime weapons from being completely done with all content myself, so not too far off. Thinking of things to do now to keep it interesting in the middle of doing other games that I have on my list.

18 minutes ago, ArchaicLotus said:

The things that could have been done with DD2. Trendmatic should have kickstarted DD2 add-ons. I would have given them 50 to 200 easy. Probably even more. 

100% agree that DD2 and DDA should have had separate KS's. Especially now with the new storefront they made offering special skins and pets to people who buy the game/beta through that and they are "In the process of doing something for previous supporters" whatever that will entail but with DD2 stuff being part of the KS it feels like a sore move to not also include the special DDA stuff. I would definitely been a large supporter of DD2 at that point based on how DDA is going.

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Keep up the different builds and writing about it in the forum lotus because its good for the game even if some players disagree with you / ive tried every defense in the game i would like to see some defenses work better but its probably doubtful now with them working on dda 

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I'll do a couple more this week; my Nimbus and my slimes. I used to think that the harpies were useless, but I tried them last night on Drakenfrost, frosty lane, they have fireblossom's blessing on them, and they mowed the Frosty lane. Problem in, my is gets partially frozen so when I switch to a hero with burning strikes the harpies lost the Corrupt bonus of piercing, and you could tell in a major way. I love grouping with a Barbarian that has Frosfire remnants. Having done that in over 150 floors though (Achungari. From Portugal. Incredibly polite and knows Barbarian well).

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The damage of dryad setups is not calculated when in Corrupt. It reads the same, either in Corrupt form or Purification form. Even though the damage reads six million, it takes less than a second to kill floor level 350 Assassins. The slimes do so much damage, I'm not able to accurately calculate it. If used them on the Forest Crossroads due to the flat nature of the map layout. Again, distance build.

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Littlehorn Valley, Molten Citadel, Dead Road. I do not gear my sky guards with anti mods due to the fact that they are thoroughly synergistic with the Earth Toss mod, (Earth Toss guilded is worth the trouble). You might take caution if you have no other air defense. I regularly use hornets and the angry nimbus as primary (ground) and secondary defenses (air). These are pictures of 353, 356 and 357 respectively.

 

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Greystone Plaza. So far builds have had zero issues, unless I do not consider the cheaters; Hex throwers. They only require attention, not a difference in build.

PS_Messages_20191129_124830.jpg

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I use a guilded deadly strikes, depending on the map. Otherwise I have all shards focusing on power enhancement. On Skyguards I swap out medallions, depending on the fliers spawn point and modified rulesets, and one of those medallions has a 10/10 controller servo.

Edited by ArchaicLotus

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17 hours ago, ArchaicLotus said:

I use a guilded deadly strikes, depending on the map. Otherwise I have all shards focusing on power enhancement

The bug allows you to switch out range on the boost aura and the towers will still receive boosts as though they’re still in the radius.

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ArchaicLotus - are you having any issues clearing floors in the upper 300's?

What are some of your next ideas of clearing lanes if some of your current setup stops working?

I ask because, I am starting my push and starting to brainstorm on what can be brought into the mix after the META builds stop working.  Knocked out 20 floors last night but it's going to be a month or 2 I think before the META stuff becomes obsolete.

So i'm just wondering if you or anyone has some out of the box ideas on how to combat floor 950, 960, and beyond.

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I'm not having any issues. Floors 350+ are the same difficulty as the 150s so far. Last night, Drakenfrost dragon hit a new record for appearances. Previous was 9, now it is seventeen on wave 5; non-stop coming and going.

A new idea that I had been flirting with is Blaze Ballon. Tried it, and it's damage is incomparable. It is 60 D.U. but did 2.6 times the damage of two Flame Auras, which makes the D.U. expense justifiable. Have to have max attack rate on it, 0.25.

I experiment with electrocution, burn, and petrification; bonus help-builds. Slimes work great with Blaze Balloon; in corruption form they oil which causes burn = causing severe damage. Geyser adds drench which coupled with a defense + storm servo gives electrocute. Geyser (will need max tenacity depending on placement/mobs in lane)also adds ...next source of damage adds an additional 35% damage. This, I believe is the high end trick. I have the Geyser's shards guilded, adding bonus additional damage. Petrification has highest top-end damage with Earthshatter over Reflect Beam. At base my Earthshatters do 9 million (this is with Earth Toss and anti-melee 10/10) and work heavily in conjunction with Sky Guards and poison dart towers/ramsters with poison servo. I'm still changing out medallions and shards depending on the map and rulesets. These combos are still melting floors. Placement is everything. I use the turtle build (copyright 2019 -Palo) so that I use the fewest amount of boost auras (with guilded deadly strikes in some cases) saving me D.U. The Lost Temple is always an experiment.

Edited by ArchaicLotus

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I mean this is the most respectable way possible because I like someone doing something different so I wont blurt out things. Can I request a check on a few things? Through testing and number checking I believe a few things to be incorrect.

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Sure, Glint. When you test and compare it is important to have the same sample base. In this case the sample base is represented by exact match; i.e., same mods, same mod power, and same shard, same mrdallion power. My hypothesis in regards to flame auras vs. Blaze Balloon was based off of placing two flames auras against the tavern dummies, then placing the same medallion and same shards, all guilded, on blaze balloon. The result was 2.6 times the damage, blaze balloon over flame auras. 

Take note, I am stingy on my specific design, for now.

Edited by ArchaicLotus

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Under a normal FA setup 2 FA should be close to dps of one BB, changing to a crit heavy FA a single one got close to being the 2.6x to match BB but 2 FA still measured close to the one BB. I confirmed the normal setup by just passing my FA relic and shards to BB ingame and then confirmed what I had with my TCDO spreadsheet for testing changes to see how they affect dps. The crit heavy (assuming you had something like your SGT for FA/BB) I could only use my sheet because I havent put any investment into a crit heavy setup.

Upgrades will be where BB dies, its scaling is terrible and 2 FA quickly catch and pass BB, not to mention BB has smaller range and a trigger. These things are what I hope to change once CG gets out of DDA development and has time to focus into something for DD2. I want to move its trigger to the edge of its burn area and change its scaling so it will be way better then FA at tier 1 but match FA at tier 5 so there is at least an option of using it early on. Though this skips the potential problem that is hard to fix in DD2, target limits on AoE sources max at 10, so 1 BB can hit 10 at the same time but 2 FA can hit 20, reducing changes of enemies bleeding a setup.

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I used the Blaze Balloon (some acronyms I am not familiar with...TCDO). On the Lost Temple Frosty lane and they cleared the lane more quickly than two Flame Auras. I had only compared the scaling to one Flame Aura as each upgrade applied to one tower, 50/100/150/200, was much more cost effective for the one Blaze Balloon as opposed to two Flame Auras being twice the mana is used. I had only compare one tier 1 BB vs. 2 tier 1 FA fir this reason.

Your math is good though, Glint (not being sarcastic. It is difficult to tell via text so I make it clear).

Edited by ArchaicLotus
spelling

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TCDO is a spreadsheet I made that I called Theory Crafting Defense Outputs, so anyone could copy it to their sheet and punch in the numbers of relics, ascension, shards, mods, etc and see the attack dmg and dps with separate readouts for 1, 2 or 3 anti mods. Basically just something if someone wanted to see how good a setup was without spending mats to make 30 billion different relics. For something like checking two different defenses with the same everything is great because I have a drop down for defense selection and I can see all them without changing numbers or loading up new sheets. Im not surprised if anyone hasnt heard of it because I started it shortly before DDA was announced so by the time I had it finished DD2 was on its down swing.

Only other thing I noticed is that Geyser shard, it has been bugged for a long time. I doubt they fixed it since it hasnt been in any patch notes.

Edited by Exglint

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