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ArchaicLotus

Screenshots, Dryad power-build

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Not saying they were, and I actually didn't say anything of opinion.

I do not care what is META or not.  In most games, mastering the META is a good thing.  I will use all tools at my disposal to progress through any game as effectively and efficiently as possible. 

 

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26 minutes ago, ArchaicLotus said:

A META is not dictated by a few either. Mastery rulesets, again, no blockades, no traps, only one defense used, prevented a hornet META...by default.

Your main refute seems to be that mastery cannot have a bee meta due to the ruleset simply not allowing the bees to be used so often. If I remember you stated that the ruleset of mastery has not changed. So, I counted the maps using your parameters [no blockades, no traps, no more than one]  and found that over 70% of the maps could use bees and trees. to be exact only 41/147 = aprox. 28% could not use bees.

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1 minute ago, ExpoWasTaken said:

Your main refute seems to be that mastery cannot have a bee meta due to the ruleset simply not allowing the bees to be used so often. If I remember you stated that the ruleset of mastery has not changed. So, I counted the maps using your parameters [no blockades, no traps, no more than one]  and found that over 70% of the maps could use bees and trees. to be exact only 41/147 = aprox. 28% could not use bees.

Dude, are you saying ArchaicLotus doesn't know it all?

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Okay I agree. In Psychology 101 we were given a task to make one cut out of a particular piece of paper that our professor handed out to us, forming a square. She mentioned that there was only one solution (a test conducted by the Psych. Department of this Florida University). We were given one minute. Within seconds I was able to make the square using one cut. It was correct, but I used a different method. I do not understand either META or cut-and-paste philosophy.

It's like one claiming to understand what healthy parenting is like when all a child experiences around them is divorce. Neither hate nor love, just a lack of understanding (on my part). 

I do not like others comparing themselves with my builds when they do not even create their own. If they just utilize their own ideas, then game on! Let's see who can climb higher (and I have zero AP resets) But copying another's creative build, then trying to downplay my own? To what avail...get spirited away. How does anyone compare when they copy. The originator or two have the right. I cannot use the META or I fall into a robotic pattern with the rest of the crowd. It would feel very awkward.

My builds change every map. My shards and mods get swapped out all of the time. I need the diversity in order to enjoy this game. If you do what everyone else is doing, what satisfaction do you truly feel? 'You' in general, not 'you' as in Woody.

Edited by ArchaicLotus
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"So, I counted the maps using your parameters (no blockades, no traps, no more than one) and found that over 70% of the maps could use bees and trees. to be exact only 41/147 = approx. 28% could not use bees." - ExpoWasTaken

Leaving 62% of the maps that could use bees. You did mention that over 70% (leaning in persuasion) when it would be, by math 62%. I'll quote myself:

'Finally, when none of these restrictions applied, bees were not always the best option, and I may be the biggest proponent for bees of all time.' - ArchaicLotus

"Dude, are you saying ArchaicLotus doesn't know it all?" - BrokenWoody

It is much more effective to my logical induction that people using this type of mentality argue against me. I do not, nor ever want, people with this inflammatory mentality arguing for me. You all are birds of a feather. It's a cop out Woody. Neither me, nor the eight people in rotation who dominated Mastery, used bees as you claim. This, in itself goes against a META. The brainchild Toro came up with builds that, apparently, the 'video -watchers' and cut-and-paste adorers would be stunned by. Your minds are not open. They are seared off, far away from originality.

 

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4 minutes ago, ArchaicLotus said:

"So, I counted the maps using your parameters (no blockades, no traps, no more than one) and found that over 70% of the maps could use bees and trees. to be exact only 41/147 = approx. 28% could not use bees." - ExpoWasTaken

Leaving 62% of the maps that could use bees. You did mention that over 70% (leaning in persuasion) when it would be, by math 62%. I'll quote myself:

'Finally, when none of these restrictions applied, bees were not always the best option, and I may be the biggest proponent for bees of all time.' - ArchaicLotus

"Dude, are you saying ArchaicLotus doesn't know it all?" - BrokenWoody

It is much more effective to my logical induction that people using this type of mentality argue against me. I do not, nor ever want, people with this inflammatory mentality arguing for me. You all are birds of a feather. It's a cop out Woody. Neither me, nor the eight people in rotation who dominated Mastery, used bees as you claim. This, in itself goes against a META. The brainchild Toro came up with builds that, apparently, the 'video -watchers' and cut-and-paste adorers would be stunned by. Your minds are not open. They are seared off, far away from originality.

 

Ill attempt to give you sometime to fix your very basic computation mistake...…. 100-28 = x

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I haven't claimed anything about META, but I am not compelled by your arguments against it.  ExpoWasTaken actually posted facts and you are replying with anecdote.  Therefore, his arguments are more compelling.

In reality tho, I don't care if you used the META or not, and if you did use the META, it was probably a smart idea.

Most Effective Tactics Available

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A plethora of people did not use bees because they did not even have Dryads. I know this because I was in the race. A META was not adhered to because bees were unavailable to the mass of contenders. People hated the Dryad and for those that had the Dryad, they did not have the proper shards for her to be effective. I had all of her great shards and barely used bees because they did not seem to be as effective as builds I was shown by others.

It's like you telling me why Rembrandt drew a particular drawing, Expo. You only think you know because of what others are saying. You were not even around. And what mass of people are here to prove that a bee META was used? We do not have a majority of those people around to either confirm or deny. Yet you, not even being in the race, newer to the game, argue a META. So I was there and I know that my compatriots did not use a META in Mastery. You were not there and you say that there was. You have people that support your claim, made in ignorance (lack of knowledge) and it is obvious that they do not even care if they are wrong. As long as it goes against the Lotus, all is well. I've been setting and breaking gaming records for ten years. I am very used to this.

Edited by ArchaicLotus

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2 minutes ago, ArchaicLotus said:

A plethora of people did not use bees because they did not even have Dryads. I know this because I was in the race. A META was not adhered to because bees were unavailable to the mass of contenders. People hated the Dryad and for thise that had the Dryad, they did not gave the proper shards fir her to be effective. I had all of her great and barely used bees because they did not seem to be as effective as builds I was shown by others.

It's like you telling me why Rembrandt drew a particular drawing, Expo. You only think you know because of what others are saying. You were not even around. And what mass of people are here to prove that a bee META was used? We do not have a majority of those people around to either conform or deny. Yet you, not even being in the race, newer to the game, argue a META. So I was there and I know that my compatriots did not use a META in Mastery. You were not there and you say that there was. You have people that support your claim, made in ignorance (lack of knowledge) and it is obvious that they do not even care if they are wrong. As long as it goes against the Lotus, all us well. I've been setting and breaking gaming records for ten years. I am very used to this.

interesting.... this assumes that I told the people that I asked the questions about bee meta to that it would be used against you or even used at all, in short I did not. I asked on multiple discords (juicebags, official dd, etc) , dm'd certain people (zombiewookie) and got these responses. There were more replies on the topic that favored bees were the meta when I posed the question. If you need I can readdress the topic in these discords and show you very specifically that these are unguided and their own responses. These replies being from "veteran" dd2 players.

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Focus. For one, Expo, you're unknown to me. What responses you get from whomever in Discord, which I do not have, means little to me due to the very fact that you have not quoted any top ten contenders, maybe Juice, but I don't remember. The people I ran Mastery with me were not only veterans, but elite; the best of the best, by their sheer originality and if you would argue that, to which you are not qualified, then their presence all over the leaderboards would be the strongest indicator. We barely used bees. The most creative Toro got with bees was on Bastille Master, placing bees along the top of the bridge as air defense.

You are unknown to me. Get somebody with credentials to back you up. You have neither the time in-game nor the experience via leaderboards to talk about why the Model T was either better or worse than the Volkswagon. All you have is opinions from very few. What I know is what I saw and experienced. A lack of a bee META in the old Mastery.

That does not assume that you told anyone about a bee META by any stretch of my imagination, as I was saying that you don't understand where all of this, people allying against me, even came from. It stemmed from long ago when I was getting done what no others were getting done, on PS4 or Xbox (Allizonme was the exception) due to console limitations. Allizonme and Marcos were my only competitors. People were saying that it was easy and anyone could do it. But nobody was...Yeti Incursion, not enough mana (Circa 2017-2018). Passing floor 170 in Onslaught pre-mods, pre-guilded shards, no re-roll, no resets when each floor consisted of three maps (I was on floor 200 when second place was 160s). That's when I started fighting back. You have no idea. The people that used the bees like crazy needed to. Was it the META? Not with my fellow Masters of Mastery, but maybe the people that you seek opinions from needed them. Okay. I grouped with artists. No offense to you Juice, you've brought so much attention to the game when it needed it. You get to bee the exception to my critique whether you care or not...."Wwwwwwhat's goin' on..." His videos were a nice segway to Dev streams, but you wouldn't know that Expo. If you choose to continue this argument then I am going to focus on the fact that my compatriots did not need bees to land top ten (we were that excellent). And I neither need to AP reset nor use the META to continue climbing Onslaught, wheras your fellow opinion-givers seem to have, at the very least, needed bees to even get the old Mastery completed.

Peace.....microphone-drop

Edited by ArchaicLotus
Added a microphone drop

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It seems the course of action you've decided to take is discredit me and make my points invalid. I used facts, data, quotes from veteran players, and more to come to my conclusion. You however, somehow believe your opinion is far greater than all of this, due to the fact you were maybe a top 10 mastery player at that time. I am starting to see a trend that leads me to a word called denialism.

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'If you choose to continue this argument then I am going to focus on the fact that my compatriots did not need bees to land top ten (we were that excellent). And I neither need to AP reset nor use the META to continue climbing Onslaught, wheras your fellow opinion-givers seem to have, at the very least, needed bees to even get the old Mastery completed.

Peace.....microphone-drop' - ArchaicLotus

ArchaicLotus, the Arch "denier" of META (most effective tactics available...perspective)

Your quotes are few. Your sourcing of what you consider veteran players is a very small sample of the players involved with Mastery. You try to validate your opposition by using words like "facts" and "data." You have zero facts and you have no data. 

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Wew a lot happens in a day. I meant nothing by my last post, just relaying my hopes that someone else would find a powerful enough build to climb with without using the mass stun stuff that isn't correctly balanced with Diminishing Returns. 

Though the reason I have never posted screenshots of my stuff to prove anything is because it really doesn't matter lol. Even if everyone in the world said I was lying, I know that my floor, AP and Mastery crown is fact (I see it every time I play) so there is no point in going out of my way to prove it :P

The reason I am not on the leaderboards is because of a bug. I spent several months with a couple Devs trying to fix the issue and at the end one asked if I would like to be put back on the boards and I requested to stay off them. They just mean so little to me because of the constant broken builds that carry people beyond their skill and really don't display much of anything unless you know that person or have seen them do stuff in a video or on stream.

I really did mean it when I said that crit stuff was cool, its been a long time since a crit build was a thing and I for sure am not going out of my way to make one so truthfully kudos. Crit builds used to be my thing and people argued with me about using all Marks but I still did it because it was different. (Only really old players will remember the old Marks xD)

Edited by Exglint

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I get what you're saying. Yet hidden within your critique is a sharp slant along with an assumption. "...just relaying my hopes that someone else would find a powerful enough build to climb without using the mass stun stuff." I have climbed and do climb, still, without using mass stun (and my stuff melts floors- extremely powerful). You'll notice on the map I only used four weapon nodes in which I often replace with four boosted grasps. As effective as the weapon's manufacturer can be, sometimes it does not wotk at all. The boosted aura works best based off of effect vs. mana, for me. On unstoppable lanes I always throw down a weapons manufacturer, as for me, that is the best counter. 

Based off of the leaderboards I felt you were being dishonest about climbing to 400+ in Onslaught. Ironic that it was you that was bugged in both Mastery and in Onslaught. I believe you, and was convicted about calling you a liar in a public forum. Even if you were lying, I should have rather sent you a private message calling you out, if at all. Very immature of me. Ten years of competitive gaming I've dealt with so much flack and hate. I used to be humble about it, and it felt much better.

Peace

Edited by ArchaicLotus

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I use ballistas with the oil shard and mass boosting them, seems to work at floor 130 so far, first time trying to climb since I did my resets. I haven’t bothered with dd2 In awhile though. Highest I got was like 230 or so before I wanted to reset. Again. No meta used. I had fun my own way. I think this has divulged from a “I’m proud of what I’ve accomplished” to a flame fest from everyone. Misinterpretations and hate from “who has the better build”, and “who can climb higher”. How about who can have the most fun? This game rewards you nothing. This isn’t a game you get paid to play. There are no tournaments. Maybe friendly competition when new challenges arise. But dear god I haven’t seen this much flaming about a video game since I played video games professionally. And this community is not very large. I would expect most people to know each other. I’ve seen most of the active players on the forums posting opinions and having normal, civil conversation. This posting took a serious turn for the worst. I feel like to grow, we need to be a little more friendly about stuff like this. I do agree with the OP on the fact that a lot of people copy builds from people who stream and make videos, like exglint and Juicebags. While this is not a negative thing, it should not make someone else who copies said build to feel more transcendent than someone who has created their own style and enjoys playing the game with it. That’s just my 2 cents coming from the mass amount of **** I read.

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I know Lotus just got this build going but I kind of hope this Dec we get at least a small patch to wishy wash balance around so new builds can be created. We have been stuck on the current for a bit too long since DDA is stealing all the focus and they wanted to support both games. We had a bit of a dip in patch timing over the summer and then Primes came out, but for Dec I feel like they should do just about anything to mix things up. If they cant attain even a tiny patch soonish then I think they bit off a bit more than they can chew trying to support two games.

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On 11/26/2019 at 12:29 AM, ArchaicLotus said:

Wave 5 floor 346. My Sky Guards are so powerful because I use the with Earth Toss Earthshatter towers. Bees and Nimbus help with fliers since everything gets targetted. Floor 346 got melted. More pictures to come. Video will be my final floor.

PS_Messages_20191125_152447.jpg

PS_Messages_20191125_152443.jpg

Hey lotus, 

May u please help me. What shards / mods do u use for so much power? 

My bees are max power 11. 0M damage, sky guard 8M damage. Omg

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9 hours ago, ArchaicLotus said:

On unstoppable lanes I always throw down a weapons manufacturer, as for me, that is the best counter. 

 

You know this is META right?

...and there is nothing wrong with you using it.

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Colobel, cool name by the way, the original intent of this thread was to display an extremely successful build that is polar opposite of what I am seeing in 8 out of every 10 random Onslaught matches I join. This thread was designed to give out pieces to see what people would want to do with them, but it required you fighting in corrupt form as a Dryad.

The thread went South as soon as Exglint posted, "It would have been nice to see someone else climbing without making use of the most broken stun mechanics, but it looks like I will remain the only one doing that for now. Cool to see a crit build working again though, even if it is riding on the back of stun mechanics."

The thread had gone South. I get it Exglint, you did not mean anything by it, but at the same time....ya did. This build rides on the back if strategic placement and ultra-harsh damage. It does not, at all, ride on the back of stun mechanics. You can see that in the layout. But I understand you as a person, Exglint, and I understand that you would want to downplay any build that I would come up with; any build...and If people look at the map you'll notice 4 nodes that are apart from the rest, those are the weapons manufacturer (WM) nodes. They are well away from spawn (this is an amazing setup for this map). Bees are single target so I used WM as an insurance policy. The META uses WM at spawn camp with all of the damage up front. I build using damage at a distance, because of my Dryad traps and Earthshatters.

Broken, your problem is that your emotions are overriding your logic. My entire point of bringing up yhe META, and you know this along with everyone else, is that people used most to all of their D.U. to copy and paste another's design. Flame aura, reflect beam, proton beam, boost aura, lightining aura, etcetera, not employing a strategy for a particular lane; but you knew that. You and Expo are incredibly...nothing like me. I get it Broken, you "....want to be nothing like..." me. I get your type if personality.

Expo, you were pleased that I miscalculated your math? I did. And I'm glad that I did. It shows the populace the behavior of the people that oppose my views. Do you know how to get facts and data of whether or not bees were a META in Mastery? You take the majority of participants in Mastery at that time and are shown their builds, then you can compile data. So, if all of the people you are asking used bees in Mastery, that does not cover the mass. But I WILL GIVE YOU THIS; it could be that I was running with the only people who neither needed nor wanted to use the bees. Again, you had a person reply in your post that had stated that all towers were a META, tbh. I feel like I need to repeat that. Expo, I do not know you. You have no credibility with me. You have done nothing to prove yourself in this game. You could be an alternate user of a primary account for all I know. You make comments like, he says he uses the dryad" and whatever else. Exglint is neither on Mastery nor on Onslaught leaderboards so my assessment was based on data posted.

I left DD2 fir a year-and-a-half. Missed out on a petrification taunt, missed out on the water-servo/shocking revelations combo, in fact, there were no mods when I left; none. Lagmonster spent a lot of his time educating me (coolest Gunwitch hands down). The only thing that really bothered me before I left in 2017 early 2018 was that I kept climbing when others could not, and they started talking crap about me. Broken, Expo, Zombiewookie, I've never heard of you all. Sorry you had to get in the middle of a battle that you did not start. I did not start listing my accolades until a group of people kept on with negativity.

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Lotus thats alot of crit damage / everyone used to farm for power transfer shard including me but now its just deadly strikes  destruction  and def rate shards  /most of the other shards are useless now or not used except for a few 

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41 minutes ago, ArchaicLotus said:

 

Broken, your problem is that your emotions are overriding your logic. My entire point of bringing up yhe META, and you know this along with everyone else, is that people used most to all of their D.U. to copy and paste another's design. Flame aura, reflect beam, proton beam, boost aura, lightining aura, etcetera, not employing a strategy for a particular lane; but you knew that. You and Expo are incredibly...nothing like me. I get it Broken, you "....want to be nothing like..." me. I get your type if personality.

 

Lord Lotus,

My problem is that you jump into 10 Onslaught games and judge everybody on their build, when they are just trying to beat them map.  I get that you are better than everyone, don't forget to remind us of your achievements again, with Tiger Woods or whatever.

I actually have no issue with your approach, other than I believe it may exclude some of the best defenses in the game.  That's your choice, but my perspective is to utilize the Most Effective Tactics Available.  I have posted examples in other threads that I know you have read, where the META build you refer to has many issues.  I recognize that and can adjust that.  You seem to think that's a bad decisions, and would totally judge my build if you joined my game, then post on here about it.

It's your attitude I have an issue with, not your approach to the actual mechanics of the game.  Those are your choice.  When you insult the way others play, why do you not expect them to push back?

I will not insult you, or group you in with a type of people, cause honestly, I can't really know who you are.  

Master Lotus, please read thoroughly. 

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