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Thorgonator

R.I.P. Poison Dart Tower

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I just felt it deserved a sendoff. I received an email detailing the Huntress' defenses in DDA,  and was greatly disappointed to discover that the one defense I had hoped above all others would return in DDA, the Poison Dart Tower, was no longer going to be in the defensive lineup of the Huntress. Instead, her kit from DD1 is returning in full. But don't worry, the classic Slice and Dice has been converted to function just like the DD2 Squire's Training Dummy blockade, so clearly the defenses everyone wanted most made the cut. I accepted the loss of Earthshatter Towers due to the return of Deadly Strikers and Chain Lightning, but this struck a blow. I had truly hoped that the positive elements of DD2 would make the cut, but alas, it seems that the Poison Dart Tower will not be among them. Instead, the poison gas trap shall return in all its lack of glory.

 

A moment of silence.

Edited by Thorgonator
Typo. More info.
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Because we clearly have gotten our hands on the defenses and can gauge their effectiveness based on screenshots. 

Sarcasm aside; why not wait until we get our hands on it, whenever that may be, and then provide feedback from that? 


*Still wish they would have given a date with that information, but yeah.

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2 hours ago, Tristaris said:

Because we clearly have gotten our hands on the defenses and can gauge their effectiveness based on screenshots. 

Sarcasm aside; why not wait until we get our hands on it, whenever that may be, and then provide feedback from that? 


*Still wish they would have given a date with that information, but yeah.

There's a difference between "just another ground based aoe" and "tower that functions in a unique manner that sets it apart from other defenses". It has nothing to do with effectiveness, I enjoy having different tower varieties to build with. Losing the PDT in lieu of getting back all her DD1 based ground defenses turns her defenses back into the 1-trick-pony she was in DD1. The PDT was one of the few DD2 changes that I considered overwhelmingly positive.

 

So you'll have to learn to live with me having opinions about that.

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I do somewhat agree that they missed an opportunity with having the PDT in DDA. In DD1 not having any real anti-air towers made the huntress less aimable an option for a solo builder. They had indicated we would get all the old towers from DD1 so I guess it wasnt to be unexpected that this would happen. I am a little concerned though with the redesign of the traps as they didnt seem to indicate their radii either for trigger radius or effect range. I am hoping they still keep the ranges from DD1 and have not imported the ridicoulously small ranges from DD2. But the burning question still remains WHEN is the Beta??? All the so called info and no actual info sigh.

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9 hours ago, Thorgonator said:

There's a difference between "just another ground based aoe" and "tower that functions in a unique manner that sets it apart from other defenses".

The Apprentice has 4 "tower that functions in a unique manner that sets it apart from other defenses" and the Squire has 2. Giving the Huntress one completely misses the point of changing up how a character's towers are special, and you as the dev are admitting that the gimmick for that set of towers simply isn't good enough.

9 hours ago, Thorgonator said:

 turns her defenses back into the 1-trick-pony she was in DD1.

When exactly was the last time you played DD1? Because this isn't even remotely true. Proximity mines are very useful for campaign where their shorter lifespan generally isn't an issue, gas traps are more useful in survivals where they can delay large groups of enemies, darkness traps are now more widely used in Lightning Tower builds as a effective element stripper at spawns, and etherial spike traps have a massive vertical damage box for fliers and single target nuke to help protect cores.

Where is the 1-trick pony in this? Do you also think the Apprentice and Series EV are also 1-trick ponies?

Edit: Apparently using brackets to insert letters can trigger formatting that you can't remove. Sorry about the strikethrough lmao

 

Edited by Caimen0
10/10 forums lmao

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6 hours ago, dizzydiana said:

I do somewhat agree that they missed an opportunity with having the PDT in DDA. In DD1 not having any real anti-air towers made the huntress less aimable an option for a solo builder. They had indicated we would get all the old towers from DD1 so I guess it wasnt to be unexpected that this would happen. I am a little concerned though with the redesign of the traps as they didnt seem to indicate their radii either for trigger radius or effect range. I am hoping they still keep the ranges from DD1 and have not imported the ridicoulously small ranges from DD2. But the burning question still remains WHEN is the Beta??? All the so called info and no actual info sigh.

I am in agreement there. I thought we'd have gotten more information yesterday since there's just been an incredible lack of it in the first place. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy getting any and all information, I just dislike how little there is. I haven't played DD2 in some time because I just generally disliked the direction it took and early on the PDT was essentially worthless. That might be different now, of course, but early on it was hot garbage for any that played the game during its early days. 

The huntress not having a real anti-air turret doesn't bother me because there's plenty of other heroes that will fit that niche well enough IMHO. But as you said @dizzydiana , let's hope they don't import the ridiculous trap sizes from DD2.

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I would give up pdt for the posion gas traps any day. However I would give up blaze trap for pdt too. 

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I kinda want the 4 starter heroes to have gender swaps, who have the dd2 towers. That way everyone would be happy, being able to chose what they want to use.
But I suppose it would probably result in balancing issues and other problems.

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While I am intrigued by the minefield aspect, yeah....it kinda sucks too that there isn't any PDTs, definitely one of my favorite defenses.

In fact, to be even more honest, I'd prefer more of the aesthetic of The Huntress DD2's tower roster as I'd prefer the elven-style of artillery rather than stuffs made from materials in the woodlands. So yeah, while the Squire and Apprentice tower design looks pretty dope, The Huntress' defenses looks kinda bland.

Edited by Paloverde zfogshooterz
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Hell, I'd even support an ability to change a defense's functionality entirely, sort of like DD2's Uber Spheres from back during the alpha. If there was some sort of similar item that I could use to convert my poison gas to PDTs, it would be a great joy to discover, and would also be the very first thing I farmed for. If we're going to be limited to 20 defenses on release, it would be a shame for 10 of them to be traps or auras that are just set over an area in the same manner. They're effective, sure, but it's less fun.

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To be 100% honest we have a preliminary date for the Beta but we never know if something unexpected pops up. We'd rather not give a definitive date and push it back internally than to give a date and have to push it back. It just might be sooner than you think ;)

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1 hour ago, cg_kyled said:

To be 100% honest we have a preliminary date for the Beta but we never know if something unexpected pops up. We'd rather not give a definitive date and push it back internally than to give a date and have to push it back. It just might be sooner than you think ;)

Appreciate the info, but I think you replied on the wrong thread.

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On 11/3/2019 at 1:29 AM, Thorgonator said:

There's a difference between "just another ground based aoe" and "tower that functions in a unique manner that sets it apart from other defenses". It has nothing to do with effectiveness, I enjoy having different tower varieties to build with. Losing the PDT in lieu of getting back all her DD1 based ground defenses turns her defenses back into the 1-trick-pony she was in DD1. The PDT was one of the few DD2 changes that I considered overwhelmingly positive.

 

So you'll have to learn to live with me having opinions about that.

So in the perspective you stand on in losing a variety of tower. You must realize that in loss of that one tower you are gaining more defenses on her, plus you are receiving more variety on other heroes. If you were to tally up how many defenses DDII had offered compared to DDI, it’s actually kind of funny. Because the tower to hero ratio was much higher on DDI than DDII. Which goes to my point of, we may be losing one tower on each hero, but we gain 2-3 more. And when they decide to release the other heroes from DDII in all their remastered glory I’m sure they are gonna have some spinoffs and maybe even some conversion to have those recycled towers changed to fit the new heroes and have awesome new effects. So don’t fret about something so small when I’m sure they have even greater plans in the works.

 

- Saitama

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Having all the DD1 defences back isnt a real issue, but I have to admit i liked the inclusion of the PDT and SGT to huntress and Monk to give them a definitive anti-air defence. To be fair not having a specific defence for anti-air only becomes an issue if you solo with that hero alone. As we have more builders and additional heroes added it does become a non issue with each hero serving a specific function in the build. That being said it doesnt detract from the fact that the huntress doesnt really have a clear way to deal with flying enemies other than to DPS them down, unless they actually fixed the etheral spike trap to work adequately in that regard. As it stands it still seems its best to start with either a squire or apprentice then level up monk or huntress to fill in gaps for higher difficulties /survival. With only having the 4 original heroes it does seem a bit restrictive to make half of them not that viable as a solo builder.

Edited by dizzydiana
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To be fair, however, if someone wants to gimp themselves by not having a set of characters to use and be efficient with, that's on them. The game doesn't force anyone to play with one sole character and they'll have hero swapping so there's really no issue as far as I'm concerned. 

Not every character has to be a jack of all trades and I feel like it's okay to have certain classes that do something extremely well. 

With that said, nobody knows how the balance is, or how any of the defenses really work at this point in time sadly. I'll be more critical when I get my hands on it and see how it plays rather than assuming things are going to work identically to their DD1 counterparts. I personally loathed the old PDT and found it to be the definition of hot garbage, along with a lot of DD2 early on when the game really struggled with deciding on how it wanted to be, most of which I blame on their F2P model.

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This isn't a post about how the balance will be. It's just a post about how the Huntress loses variety, and unless other news pops up, my favorite tower in DD2 won't be around. I'm just saddened about that. No more, no less.

 

Edit: As Exglint mentioned below, It also fits flawlessy with the theme of towers made with woodland materials. It's literally constructed out of wood, and although the firing mechanism isn't visible, you could make an argument for elven magic (Really, I think all the towers need a strong argument for magic, considering that they can function without needing reloading or any visible targeting mechanism). I think it fits the theme better than the current design for the Poison Gas Trap, which has glass, metal, and wiring used in its construction. So even going that route, I'd prefer the PDT.

Edited by Thorgonator
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I think my issue was the first line, "We wanted to make sure that the Huntress’s traps conveyed that they were put together by an elf, using materials that are available to a being from the woodlands". When you look at the PDT, thats exactly what it was. Wood tubes and panels with what probably can be explained as an air bag made of animal hide that is expelled extremely quickly that shoots darts with poison tips. Then this statement kind of ignores Elven swords and plate armor which has been described in many media. The logic and realism of that statement have to be massively suspended in order to have that be a thing. A device that triggers on a proximity and delivering an explosive chemical reaction powerful enough to kill something then rearm itself without using any electrical components is absurd. Wires, timers, sensors and glass/plastic go above what you can find just laying on the forest floor and require a complex fabrication process to make. Then you break into what has been in the games for a long time, mana. We use mana to magically form objects to defend the Crystals from the invading forces. If we are performing alchemy then why does the defense need to look like something we made by hand from available materials? This is all excusing the ethereal trap which is most likely going to be magic considering what it does when triggered. 

The reality of it all is the PDT is a much more viable mechanism to make out of basic materials if they wanted to go that route, even though what is done is actually alchemy.

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